Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[Dockeroo]

A lot of well articulated views on all sides here in the posts over recent days.
For clarity, I’m not looking for a team of scumbags or anything like that. But the evidence of last year suggests that once a team gets a run on us very few players on our side step up to stem the tide. I would love to see players displaying more real leadership onfield in the face of adversity. It could be nothing to do with the JL/Pearce leadership combo. Or it might be a lot do do with their introverted nature as a duo. Remember Buckley spent a day in the coaches box last year and was on SEN after talking about how quiet and reserved we were as a squad.
Of course we will all reserve judgement until the season starts on JL but the pressure is on from the get go and the credits he has from 2022 will be a distant memory if we start badly again this year.
I really hope at the very least that JL comes up with some aspect of the gameplan and game day process that is fresh and different to what we saw in 2023. Nothing really changed personnel wise in the offseason from a coaching or playing POV (unlike last year we don’t have jackson and JOM incoming as B22 certainties) so it will be interesting to see what he does different this year.

 

[WilloTree]

Yeah I knew I quoted my post....

5 years is the average life period of a dockers coach.

Justin Longmuir is in his 5th season. he could be gone in 2024.

I don't disagree, I'm just baffled how we got here.

I haven't gone through the stats, but I wonder how many of our past coaches took us to a winning final with a very inexperienced team in their 3rd year following a mass exodus.

oh, and kept us off the back page for all the wrong reasons (boy - that was fun)

...and didn't lose 10,000 members.

I'd guess not many.

The truth is, we're bloody lucky JL came in when he did and cleaned up the mess we were in. Would we like to win every game? Of course. There are 18 clubs all trying to do that. But, if we can't see what he's achieved in his short time we're basically just death riding him to failure, which is nonsense to me. I just can't understand it.

It's like having a bloody good lamb roast in front of you but complaining the gravy is too hot and drumming up support to go get Maccas.

 

[theGav56]

I agree...

Look at the Freo Years before Ross Lyon from 1995-2011. Finals in 2003, 2006 and 2010. I can remind everyone about the Chris Connolly era of 2002-7. We should of done way better than just make finals in 2003 and 2006.

Ross Lyon proves If your team has a half decent list and a solid coach, your team will make finals. Mark Harvey was never gonna get Freo to a grand final.

Ross Lyon demonstrated the importance of a very good coach.

 

[Joao]

I don't disagree, I'm just baffled how we got here.

I haven't gone through the stats, but I wonder how many of our past coaches took us to a winning final with a very inexperienced team in their 3rd year following a mass exodus.

oh, and kept us off the back page for all the wrong reasons (boy - that was fun)

...and didn't lose 10,000 members.

I'd guess not many.

The truth is, we're bloody lucky JL came in when he did and cleaned up the mess we were in. Would we like to win every game? Of course. There are 18 clubs all trying to do that. But, if we can't see what he's achieved in his short time we're basically just death riding him to failure, which is nonsense to me. I just can't understand it.

It's like having a bloody good lamb roast in front of you but complaining the gravy is too hot and drumming up support to go get Maccas.

Agree with this.

I think we're taking the lack of off-field bull**** for granted. The real fruits of that labour will get more and more apparent over time.

Still think he's under much less pressure internally than the external people think.

 

[Docker82]

I don't disagree, I'm just baffled how we got here.

I haven't gone through the stats, but I wonder how many of our past coaches took us to a winning final with a very inexperienced team in their 3rd year following a mass exodus.

oh, and kept us off the back page for all the wrong reasons (boy - that was fun)

...and didn't lose 10,000 members.

I'd guess not many.

The truth is, we're bloody lucky JL came in when he did and cleaned up the mess we were in. Would we like to win every game? Of course. There are 18 clubs all trying to do that. But, if we can't see what he's achieved in his short time we're basically just death riding him to failure, which is nonsense to me. I just can't understand it.

It's like having a bloody good lamb roast in front of you but complaining the gravy is too hot and drumming up support to go get Maccas.

Not sure the mass exodus happened before JL came.

1 or 2 players a season leaving is pretty much league average these days. In Ross Lyon's last few years he always brought more than we lost too - even JL did end of 2019 when he started.

Mass exodus has only really happened in 2022 tbh.

 

[WilloTree]

Not sure the mass exodus happened before JL came.

1 or 2 players a season leaving is pretty much league average these days. In Ross Lyon's last few years he always brought more than we lost too - even JL did end of 2019 when he started.

Mass exodus has only really happened in 2022 tbh.

With all due respect I'm not referring to an single season. Under Lyon, we lost an entire midfield including a duel Brownlow medalist, a Premiership wingman and a bloke in the top 20 highest paid players in the AFL.

I'm not losing sleep over guys like Meek, Logue and Tucker. I get your point though - players are still leaving.

It's a problem.

 

[theGav56]

The player leaving problem for me is brought into focus by the positions they play.

• wings. We've lost some beauties, and seem to have lacked the foresight to list manage the position.
• forwards. Schultz and Lobb (despite his personal sh!teheadidness) are an area of the ground we can't afford to leave ourselves vulnerable.

In the wash up our losses have been borderline marginal, and in many ways a nett positive.

 

[Joao]

With all due respect I'm not referring to an single season. Under Lyon, we lost an entire midfield including a duel Brownlow medalist, a Premiership wingman and a bloke in the top 20 highest paid players in the AFL.

I'm not losing sleep over guys like Meek, Logue and Tucker. I get your point though - players are still leaving.

It's a problem.

I don't think its a problem at all. It's a list strategy.

We won't know whether it was a good one or not for a while.

 

[ignoramus]

With all due respect I'm not referring to an single season. Under Lyon, we lost an entire midfield including a duel Brownlow medalist, a Premiership wingman and a bloke in the top 20 highest paid players in the AFL.

I'm not losing sleep over guys like Meek, Logue and Tucker. I get your point though - players are still leaving.

It's a problem.

Would the wingman have been a premiership wingman if he had stayed at Freo? Would the dual Brownlow medalist have been a dual Brownlow medalist? Would the other one (Weller? I'm not sure who you mean here) have been a bloke in the top 20 highest paid players?

NB: I have no investment in the incessant Lyon vs Longmuir debates (and feel my happiness would probably increase by a couple of percent if everyone just got over it). I'm just sceptical of the value of retrospectively granting honours to players before they earned them.

 

[pK75]

Would the wingman have been a premiership wingman if he had stayed at Freo? Would the dual Brownlow medalist have been a dual Brownlow medalist? Would the other one (Weller? I'm not sure who you mean here) have been a bloke in the top 20 highest paid players?

NB: I have no investment in the incessant Lyon vs Longmuir debates (and feel my happiness would probably increase by a couple of percent if everyone just got over it). I'm just sceptical of the value of retrospectively granting honours to players before they earned them.

B Hill was a 3 times premiership winger before he came to us, Langdon became a premiership winger after he left. We’ve also lost Weller, Acres and Henry. That’s a lot from one position.

 

[freo1997]

This bloke is finished if we don’t make finals. If he is, I’d much prefer the incoming coach say “ we need to kick more goals and be more attacking”

Jlo said defence first when he became coach. We needed a reverse approach back then and now.

Hearing ball movement out of defence is looking terrible again.

 

[ignoramus]

B Hill was a 3 times premiership winger before he came to us, Langdon became a premiership winger after he left. We’ve also lost Weller, Acres and Henry. That’s a lot from one position.

Thought about Bill and thought to myself, he hasn't had great success since leaving. Completely forgot that he was already a premiership winger. So fair call by WilloTree on that one.

 

[Docker82]

With all due respect I'm not referring to an single season. Under Lyon, we lost an entire midfield including a duel Brownlow medalist, a Premiership wingman and a bloke in the top 20 highest paid players in the AFL.

I'm not losing sleep over guys like Meek, Logue and Tucker. I get your point though - players are still leaving.

It's a problem.

Retention issues seem to be aligned pretty much to when Peter Bell was involved with the club.

It wasn’t problem for quite a few years under Harvey and up until 2017 or so. But as I said player movement of 1 or 2 players per club is normal now - agree who we’ve lost is a bit of an issue.

I’ve said a bit about JL abut I’m not going to blame him for losing players.

 

[Dockeroo]

Ball movement from the back could well be THE defining factor on JL survival chances.
If we start badly in the first few games with horrible slow ball movement again - it will get ugly real quick in terms of the fans reaction. There will be little sympathy for the coach.
If we lose a few early while playing an exciting attaching brand - it might be different. Reasonable fans would be a bit more understanding in that instance.

 

[Freomaniac]

Ross Lyon demonstrated the importance of a very good coach.

I agree....

Chris Connolly shouldof been a very good coach too when we had him from 2002-07.

But I as I said...

I look at the crows and west coast as good examples of having good coaches that equals a flag or at least sustained finals success.

I look at the crows. They got flags in 1997-8 under Malcolm Blight, after he got the cats to grand finals in 1989, 1992 and 1994. Had an Experienced coach in Gary Ayres from 2000-2004. Made finals in 2001-3. Neil Craig got them sustained finals from 2005-09.

West coast had Mick Malthouse from 1990-99, got into the 1991, 1992 and 1994 grand finals after he coached the dogs from 1985-89.

Worsfold coached the eagles from 2002-13. Had that 2002-7 finals era and that 2011-12 finals era. 2 grand finals in 2005-6, got a flag in 2006. He left and Adam Simpson took over at the end of 2013. Simpson debut year was 2014. The eagles had their finals run of 2015-2020. Got a grand final in 2015 and a flag in 2018.


I have no Issues on Justin Longmuir getting us to finals in 2024-28. Make a grand final in 2027 and win a flag that year.

 

[blue shark]

I don't disagree, I'm just baffled how we got here.

I haven't gone through the stats, but I wonder how many of our past coaches took us to a winning final with a very inexperienced team in their 3rd year following a mass exodus.

oh, and kept us off the back page for all the wrong reasons (boy - that was fun)

...and didn't lose 10,000 members.

I'd guess not many.

The truth is, we're bloody lucky JL came in when he did and cleaned up the mess we were in. Would we like to win every game? Of course. There are 18 clubs all trying to do that. But, if we can't see what he's achieved in his short time we're basically just death riding him to failure, which is nonsense to me. I just can't understand it.

It's like having a bloody good lamb roast in front of you but complaining the gravy is too hot and drumming up support to go get Maccas.

We were better in 2022 due to Acres and NOD kicking goals, with Mundy’s
poise and class.
If Jlo can find solutions to our problems then he keeps his job.
It’s his 5th year with his fingerprints all over the blueprints, Acres would of stayed
if the coin was there.
But if we could get Scott here, where do we sign?
I’d put JLo in the same boat as M Harvey, and Yeah I thought he had done his
job, started the rebuild.

 

[juddymarvelous]

“we need to kick more goals and be more attacking”.

This and only this.

 

[purplearmy]

This bloke is finished if we don’t make finals. If he is, I’d much prefer the incoming coach say “ we need to kick more goals and be more attacking”

Jlo said defence first when he became coach. We needed a reverse approach back then and now.

Hearing ball movement out of defence is looking terrible again.

Yep. More of the same. The Nail Biter should have been moved on last year.

 

[dominguez]

Agree with this.

I think we're taking the lack of off-field bull**** for granted. The real fruits of that labour will get more and more apparent over time.

Still think he's under much less pressure internally than the external people think.

How can the club say we'll win a flag by 2025 with a coach who is out of contract and think that he's not under pressure?

Anything less than 11 wins JLo is gone IMO. We can't make the 8 once in 9 years and say that's acceptable.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

How can the club say we'll win a flag by 2025 with a coach who is out of contract and think that he's not under pressure?

Anything less than 11 wins JLo is gone IMO. We can't make the 8 once in 9 years and say that's acceptable.

Once in 5 years would be more relevant to the conversation.

 

[pK75]

Once in 5 years would be more relevant to the conversation.

Spot on, he’s currently batting at 25% (1:4) if we make the finals this year that jumps to 40% (2:5) and he deserves to keep his job, especially we you look at the list turnover in the last 4 years, it’s massive!

 

[Joao]

How can the club say we'll win a flag by 2025 with a coach who is out of contract and think that he's not under pressure?

Anything less than 11 wins JLo is gone IMO. We can't make the 8 once in 9 years and say that's acceptable.

He's under pressure, just no as much as everything thinks. The reason is because we keep letting mature, B22 players leave. That's most likely not a JL decision alone and possibly not at all.

I have like 50 posts on this all over this thread and others and honestly can't be arsed having the same discussion again.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

Spot on, he’s currently batting at 25% (1:4) if we make the finals this year that jumps to 40% (2:5) and he deserves to keep his job, especially we you look at the list turnover in the last 4 years, it’s massive!

1/4 or 1:3, not 1:4
and
2/5 or 2:3, not 2/5

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Piggy Smalls]

1/4 or 1:3, not 1:4
and
2/5 or 2:3, not 2/5

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

They both work. 1/4 means one in four. 1:3 means 1 plus 3 which is also one in four.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

They both work. 1/4 means one in four. 1:3 means 1 plus 3 which is also one in four.

That is what I wrote.