Delist JK
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Different eras obviously. Be good to compare these averages with league averages for key forwards during each era.
Summa played in the years where 8 goal games by full forwards were a weekly event and multiple 10 + goal games in a round were not at all uncommon.With the likes of Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett, Modra, Lyon etc. getting spoonfed the ball on leads in an open 50m arc, I think Summas average: league average ratio would be poorer than JKs.
If anyone can be arsed doing the analysis?
Or an easier comparison might be where they rank in comparison with their contemporaries.
JK ranks # 3 behind current players (50 games or more) on 2.47 with Jeremy Cameron 2nd on 2.53 and Franklin first on 3.10.
Summa wasnt on the list of past players (top 20) but wouldnt have been far off it with 3.4 goals per game he sits behind at least 5 players who played in his era:
Lockett 4.84
Dunstall 4.6
Ablett 4.16
Alan Jackovich 3.85
Modra 3.56.
JK ranks # 3 behind current players (50 games or more) on 2.47 with Jeremy Cameron 2nd on 2.53 and Franklin first on 3.10.
Summa wasnt on the list of past players (top 20) but wouldnt have been far off it with 3.4 goals per game he sits behind at least 5 players who played in his era:
Lockett 4.84
Dunstall 4.6
Ablett 4.16
Alan Jackovich 3.85
Modra 3.56.
- Sep 21, 2004
- 39,780
- 29,968
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Norwood & Liverpool.
Damn you! I have opened a bloody Excel spreadsheet.
Right, so using the Top 20 tables again- Past players and Current players.
From the top 20 Finals goal scorers tabled against finals played and worked out goal/final average.
Past Players- Sumich ranks 10th for all time with a goal/final average of 3.26. He is in a 3 way tie for 10th aggregate finals goals with 62 from 19 finals) The all time average (top 20 only) is 3.30 goals. However there is a freak by the name of Ron Todd who kicked 55 goals in 11 games at an average of 5 so if I remove him, the average is 3.21 for all time (minus Todd).
Now to compare to his contemporaries Sumich sits 5th behind Ablett on 4.0, Dunstall on 3.71, Kernahan on 3.61 Brownless on 3.53 (and still no flag
). He is ahead of Lynch 3.25, Lloyd 2.89, Carey 2.61 and Brereton 2.04. The average of these 9 players was also 3.21.Sumichs goals/game ratio against contemporaries in the top 20 is 1.01 (personal average/cohort average)
Summary- his finals goal/game record is very fing good 10th of all time, 5th in his generation.
Current players- JK ranks 2nd for current players behind Franklin 2.88 goals per final with 2.35 G/F and and 3rd in total Finals goals with 40 (17 finals) behind Hawkins on 48 (29 finals) and Franklin on 72 (25 finals). The current player average for the top 20 in finals is 1.77. Franklin is the only current player listed in the all time top 20- currenlty equal 4th with Leigh Matthews and after this season he should jump Jack Titus (74) and Dunstall (78) to outright 2nd of all time behind Coventry (111 at 3.58).
JK finals goals/game ratio against contemporaries in the top 20 is 1.32 (personal average/cohort average)
Summary- Franklin is an absolute freak (suprise!) Will be the all time 2nd greatest goal scorer in finals. JK is 2nd behind him in average goals per final and 3rd in aggregate goals in finals of current players.
On the balance of things JK gets the nod over Sumich for finals goals per game performance when benchmarked against the players of his era.
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I don't think it's an argument, it is more a celebration of 2 of the best KPFs that have played the game. Take nothing away from either, both sensational players.I just find this position in particularly interesting statistically with the way the game has changed over the past 30 years.
He's not really a CHF though, is he?
Are you an AA selector?
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Looking for a cloud to yell at
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Other way round imo
Sumich had the capability to be a very good CHF but during his time we didn’t have anyone else that could play out of the goal square
He was a good field kick and a better shot at goal from 40+ than he was closer to goal
Kennedy is/was an outstanding lead up forward. He’d have kicked 1000 goals if he played in the late ‘80s/early ‘90s
The game has changed so much - defence is far more sophisticated. As a rsult the style of play in the past would not stand up - the top players would, I guess, still be top playeres though. Numbers not so relevant.
- Sep 21, 2004
- 39,780
- 29,968
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Norwood & Liverpool.
Sumich could kick the thing 70m+
If you watch some of his goals from outside 50 they sail into the crowd.
I think because I grew up watching Suma I have great memories of him.He was the reason I started following AFL and the Eagles.
Loved JK too though.
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If you watch some of his goals from outside 50 they sail into the crowd.
I think because I grew up watching Suma I have great memories of him.He was the reason I started following AFL and the Eagles.
Loved JK too though.
On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Has anyone compared their behinds kicked?
I was young when Suma was playing but he seemed far more inaccurate than JK
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
I was young when Suma was playing but he seemed far more inaccurate than JK
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Era-adjusted VFL/AFL goals - InsightLane
The approach to my era-adjusted goal tallies across VFL/AFL history is outlined in this blog post but will continue to be updated over time. The baseline or benchmark for the era-adjusted goals has been set at the VFL/AFL league averages between 1897-2018 – the point at which I first undertook...
insightlane.com
Check that out for anyone interested in a deeper statistical dive. Insightlane uses era adjusted goals to compare players against their competitors and the scoring rates of the time. Nothing is perfect but it's a pretty fun way to look at it.
RookiePick
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 13, 2014
- 28,090
- 50,740
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- West Coast
Love Suma
Love JK
Club legends both.
JK has better pure footy highlights with his ridiculous ground game for a big man but Suma has a very underrated catalogue of big hits. He ironed out just as many as Woosh over the journey I think.
Love JK
Club legends both.
JK has better pure footy highlights with his ridiculous ground game for a big man but Suma has a very underrated catalogue of big hits. He ironed out just as many as Woosh over the journey I think.
- Apr 30, 2015
- 14,487
- 26,186
- AFL Club
- West Coast
You never knew what you were gonna get with Suma, which was part of his watchability. eg in the 1992 GF he had 3 set shots from the exact same spot (right forward pocket). He kicked 1.1 and one OOB on the full.
Suma was my favourite player as a kid and started my love of West Coast full-forwards. We've either had the best in the business winning Colemans or being the first left footer in history to boot 100 in a season, or a ridiculous cult figure. Or both. Scotty Cummings, Troy Wilson, Lynchy and his glove, the bearded god.
So good.
So good.
Carbine Chaos
See My Chess
- Apr 1, 2009
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- Perth FC, Everton, Delhi
Suma coming in to the side this weekend would probably lower our average age tbh.
And weight
- Sep 21, 2004
- 39,780
- 29,968
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Norwood & Liverpool.
Yeah I remember Sumich looking pretty big for back then but JK is 6kgs heavier despite looking skinny.
JK definitely a more reliable kick but Sumich had x factor
Both WCE legends
1200+ goals in 350+ games
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JK definitely a more reliable kick but Sumich had x factor
Both WCE legends
1200+ goals in 350+ games
On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
