List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Go Woods]

Here’s an idea..

We keep Grundy and JDG. Bring in Taranto, Hill, McStay.

Don’t listen to the noise. Happy days.

Ideally yes absolutely.
Grundy would need to take a revised offer and take a decent haircut.
Jordy would need to sign for unders compared to currently (say $700k + incentives)
Sidebottom one year ext on minimum chips.
T Brown one year ext on minimum chips.
Go to Howe & Pendles and ask them to also reduce their current deals for 23
Trade WHE, Callum Brown.
This might be the only way we achieve the above….

 

[JM#1]

I think I agree and the pleasing part is we seem to be correctly identifying the areas of need.

McStay = mature key that can take some heat for Checkers, Johnson etc.
Taranto = inside mid
Hill = pace and class
Frampton = mature bodied defender we could ask to play lockdown Roughead role

Apart from Taranto you’re right about the others potentially being NQR but they do have the skill set we need. You could swap Hill for Bedford as an example or Edwards from WCE for Frampton (and Dean maybe ahead of them anyway) but I think we’re on the right path as to how to improve the list.


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I feel Kreuger will come in and play the role you mentioned of McStay. Hence why I'd be focusing on Dunkley instead. Although I have not heard the club being linked with him at all.

 

[Harry O]

Club should be focused on Tarranto and Dunkley.


I feel Kreuger will come in and play the role you mentioned of McStay. Hence why I'd be focusing on Dunkley instead. Although I have not heard the club being linked with him at all.

If people lose their marbles over Tay Adams kicking , wait until we get Dunkley !

 

[Piesinfront]

To trade Grundy to provide a path for Taranto would be a big mistake in my view. Top class ruckmen are very difficult to replace....there is only perhaps 2/3 better or comparable ruckmen in the league, even on a bad day Grundy is top 6.....by comparison Midfielders are relatively plentiful and on a position comparison Taranto is probably say around top 30/40 in the league. Just ask Geelong who have got by with Stanley, how good it would be to have a Gawn / Grundy! And as an example if we end up paying say 200k of Grundy's salary elsewhere.....and bring in Taranto (or similar) for say 750 .....you have essentially just paid 950 pa for the replacement! Good Rucks are rare ....Good mids far less so!

 

[vinnievavoom]

To trade Grundy to provide a path for Taranto would be a big mistake in my view. Top class ruckmen are very difficult to replace....there is only perhaps 2/3 better or comparable ruckmen in the league, even on a bad day Grundy is top 6.....by comparison Midfielders are relatively plentiful and on a position comparison Taranto is probably say around top 30/40 in the league. Just ask Geelong who have got by with Stanley, how good it would be to have a Gawn / Grundy! And as an example if we end up paying say 200k of Grundy's salary elsewhere.....and bring in Taranto (or similar) for say 750 .....you have essentially just paid 950 pa for the replacement! Good Rucks are rare ....Good mids far less so! View attachment 1474270

I tend to agree with you (with regards to trading Grundy to bring Taranto into the picture being a mistake) , but your table shows Grundy ranked 12th as a ruckman and 157th as a player. Doesn't quite support your argument. I'm not sure where this list comes from either.
Anyway...

 

[well left]

I feel Kreuger will come in and play the role you mentioned of McStay. Hence why I'd be focusing on Dunkley instead. Although I have not heard the club being linked with him at all.

Yeah I think that would have been the best case scenario but given Kreuger is yet to string stretches of games together without injuring himself, both here and Geelong, I think we’re taking a conservative approach and going for a known commodity.

I like Kreuger and think what he brings is exactly what we need but he needs to be more durable in order to be relied upon.


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[Piesinfront]

I tend to agree with you (with regards to trading Grundy to bring Taranto into the picture being a mistake) , but your table shows Grundy ranked 12th as a ruckman and 157th as a player. Doesn't quite support your argument. I'm not sure where this list comes from either.
Anyway...

Fair comment ......but my intent was to demonstrate how few of them there are ......I would not choose many of those names ahead of Grundy (Gawn - tick), others? .....I also think he is ranked there due to his ranking slipping due to not playing (but could be wrong).... 2022 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings | Statistics - Stats Insider ....coincidentally and by comparison Taranto is ranked 154th ...and 65th in list of Mids.....noting that Tim's season has also been injury interupted with only 15 games in 2022 .....so perhaps his best is also better than the current ranking indicates ......I rate Taranto and also Darcy Cameron.....but by position I think Grundy is more difficult to replace and a potential point of difference for us going forward...

 

[vinnievavoom]

Fair comment ......but my intent was to demonstrate how few of them there are ......I would not choose many of those names ahead of Grundy (Gawn - tick), others? .....I also think he is ranked there due to his ranking slipping due to not playing (but could be wrong).... 2022 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings | Statistics - Stats Insider ....coincidentally and by comparison Taranto is ranked 154th ...and 65th in list of Mids.....noting that Tim's season has also been injury interupted with only 15 games in 2022 .....so perhaps his best is also better than the current ranking indicates ......I rate Taranto and also Darcy Cameron.....but by position I think Grundy is more difficult to replace and a potential point of difference for us going forward...

2022 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings | Statistics - Stats Insider
Stats Insider's AFL Player DNA gives you the ability to explore each player's strengths and weaknesses. By using the drop down menus, select any current player who has played at least 1 AFL game and the statistics you would like visualised. The data used is an average of that player's last 15 games, based on 100% time on ground in 20 minute quarters, and they are presented as a percentage of the top player in that category.



This may better support your argument... Grundy is comparable to Gawn, apart from contested marks being down. Mind you, these stats are specific to the position of ruckman. I haven't played with the stats, although you can include more categories on this site. Make of this what you will.

Interesting web site...

 

[vinnievavoom]

2022 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings | Statistics - Stats Insider
Stats Insider's AFL Player DNA gives you the ability to explore each player's strengths and weaknesses. By using the drop down menus, select any current player who has played at least 1 AFL game and the statistics you would like visualised. The data used is an average of that player's last 15 games, based on 100% time on ground in 20 minute quarters, and they are presented as a percentage of the top player in that category.

View attachment 1474318

This may better support your argument... Grundy is comparable to Gawn, apart from contested marks being down. Mind you, these stats are specific to the position of ruckman. I haven't played with the stats, although you can include more categories on this site. Make of this what you will.

Interesting web site...

This is a reply to my own post.

Playing around with the figures on this site, i noticed that Grundy has had a lot of clangers when compared to other rucks. His other stats aren't particularly impressive either. This is shaping my view that Grundy, from a stats perspective has been bang average as a ruckman, and is easily replaced.

Although he is our best clearance ruckman when compared to Cox and Cameron.

Im allowed to be a turncoat. I have Italian heritage.

 

[Abdul_The_Bull]

This is a reply to my own post.

Playing around with the figures on this site, i noticed that Grundy has had a lot of clangers when compared to other rucks. His other stats aren't particularly impressive either. This is shaping my view that Grundy, from a stats perspective has been bang average as a ruckman, and is easily replaced.

Although he is our best clearance ruckman when compared to Cox and Cameron.

Im allowed to be a turncoat. I have Italian heritage.

How does he perform on score involvements compared with others, and in particular Gawn?

 

[MoreMoore]

The club could be interested in trading Grundy due to the injury he sustained. Maybe their hope is he plays for two seasons at Melbourne before breaking down and retiring.

This is what I was thinking also
No way you pay to get rid of him unless something is wrong
Maybe he has something degenerative that has slowed him down the last few years?

 

[vinnievavoom]

How does he perform on score involvements compared with others, and in particular Gawn?

Score involvements is not a category on this chart.

Go to the site and have a play. Its interesting.

2024 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings

Get ahead of the game with Stats Insider's 2024 AFL Player Ratings. Discover comprehensive player rankings and stats to inform your footy predictions.

www.statsinsider.com.au

 

[manicpie]

This is what I was thinking also
No way you pay to get rid of him unless something is wrong
Maybe he has something degenerative that has slowed him down the last few years?

I think the importance of Grundy's role has diminished due to the fact that we have 2 other Ruckman and Begg. It's purely a financial decision. We can't keep paying someone 1 mill a year and he is excess to needs. We are better off paying 300k of his salary to another club and saving 700k per year

 

[MAGP1ES]

Anybody who gets upset at him for not taking a pay cut is a clown and should be ignored.

Why tf should he take a pay cut?

Do you honestly think Collingwood Football Club is getting value for money from Grundy?

 

[KinderSmock]

I think I agree and the pleasing part is we seem to be correctly identifying the areas of need.

McStay = mature key that can take some heat for Checkers, Johnson etc.
Taranto = inside mid
Hill = pace and class
Frampton = mature bodied defender we could ask to play lockdown Roughead looking to improve the team

In the right environment, any player can become a better version of their current form. So Taranto is the only one considered elite in that category? Well, I guess we make the next four elite.

Adelaide has been a horrible place since they enlisted psychopaths to take pre-season and then let more psychopaths run the club. So maybe Framptom will flourish in a better environment. Wouldn't be the first.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

To trade Grundy to provide a path for Taranto would be a big mistake in my view. Top class ruckmen are very difficult to replace....there is only perhaps 2/3 better or comparable ruckmen in the league, even on a bad day Grundy is top 6.....by comparison Midfielders are relatively plentiful and on a position comparison Taranto is probably say around top 30/40 in the league. Just ask Geelong who have got by with Stanley, how good it would be to have a Gawn / Grundy! And as an example if we end up paying say 200k of Grundy's salary elsewhere.....and bring in Taranto (or similar) for say 750 .....you have essentially just paid 950 pa for the replacement! Good Rucks are rare ....Good mids far less so! View attachment 1474270

I don’t think the Grundy trade is purely about a specific player out and a player in.

I think it’s about sending a message. We don’t carry bloated salaries and if you want to try and negotiate over market, you will be shipped off.

Having a player on a big deal means other players come asking for similar money. GW is putting an end to the overpaying culture.

 

[Jen2310]

I don’t think the Grundy trade is purely about a specific player out and a player in.

I think it’s about sending a message. We don’t carry bloated salaries and if you want to try and negotiate over market, you will be shipped off.

Having a player on a big deal means other players come asking for similar money. GW is putting an end to the overpaying culture.

Wright was the one that gave Darcy moore a 6 year contract (900k?)

 

[Matrix10]

Wright was the one that gave Darcy moore a 6 year contract (900k?)

That’s fair value for Darcy. He is elite

 

[TW Sherrin]

2022 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings | Statistics - Stats Insider
Stats Insider's AFL Player DNA gives you the ability to explore each player's strengths and weaknesses. By using the drop down menus, select any current player who has played at least 1 AFL game and the statistics you would like visualised. The data used is an average of that player's last 15 games, based on 100% time on ground in 20 minute quarters, and they are presented as a percentage of the top player in that category.

View attachment 1474318

This may better support your argument... Grundy is comparable to Gawn, apart from contested marks being down. Mind you, these stats are specific to the position of ruckman. I haven't played with the stats, although you can include more categories on this site. Make of this what you will.

Interesting web site...

If you base your opinion of player on stats you are missing half the picture.

 

[stormskye]

Was WHE ever AA? No.

All trading is done of potential

Say Luke Jackson his value is based off he has shown potential and clubs are backing him to reach the heights Grundy did. Now Grundy has shown he can get to the level now it’s a question can he get back there post injury.

I never said WHE was AA. But WHE value in 18/19 is worth a lot more than current. Same with Grundy. Hence why we are looking to move him on. Past form is meaningless, especially it is how 3 years ago. He’s older and gotten more injuries. His value is not that of an AA ruckmen. If we were trading for him, we wouldn’t be paying AA rates and we would be pissed if we did. Stevo is a former rising star, what’s his value? That of a rising star, or his form now?

 

[Mick F]

I never said WHE was AA. But WHE value in 18/19 is worth a lot more than current. Same with Grundy. Hence why we are looking to move him on. Past form is meaningless, especially it is how 3 years ago. He’s older and gotten more injuries. His value is not that of an AA ruckmen. If we were trading for him, we wouldn’t be paying AA rates and we would be pissed if we did. Stevo is a former rising star, what’s his value? That of a rising star, or his form now?

Some of us actually live by our word once we give it.

I realise some people don’t, but that is why contracts are drawn up and signatures affixed.

 

[Abdul_The_Bull]

You're only ever as good as your last game.... I guess I am 'old school' and expect that a contract should be honoured. But, this spate of contract re-negotiation requests was initiated by the players when they started wanting to 'go back home' or, 'be closer to family'. I thought it was a sad day when contracts were 'torn up' on that basis. This is the thin edge of the wedge and soon I can envisage a time when players will be traded like commodity items on a whim and without their consent. That will be a sad day, but I see it happening.

 

[Seedsfan]

I never said WHE was AA. But WHE value in 18/19 is worth a lot more than current. Same with Grundy. Hence why we are looking to move him on. Past form is meaningless, especially it is how 3 years ago. He’s older and gotten more injuries. His value is not that of an AA ruckmen. If we were trading for him, we wouldn’t be paying AA rates and we would be pissed if we did. Stevo is a former rising star, what’s his value? That of a rising star, or his form now?

Grundy has shown he has the ability to be the best in his position in the game. While the fact there are question marks that take away from his value now. Trades are always done on potential and always have the risk of blowing up

 

[gouki88]

That’s fair value for Darcy. He is elite

Yet not as elite as Grundy was when he signed his near-identical deal. Curious.

 

[MAGP1ES]

Yet not as elite as Grundy was when he signed his near-identical deal. Curious.

Moore > Grundy