Football Related Random Thread - PART 2

[western royboy]

I personally think 4 field umpires would be best suited, you could have one in each inside-50 mark and 2 in the middle with one on each wing/half middle space to help umpires have less work to do.

Anymore field umpires than that though and it would probably affect the state of game, in a negative sort of way.

The more you add, the more differences in interpretations - you get plenty of breaks in a 3 if you do it properly

 

[Cubs2Lions]

The more you add, the more differences in interpretations - you get plenty of breaks in a 3 if you do it properly

Yeah true, 3 would be good if one umpire agrees and the other doesn’t, meaning they needs to be a tiebreaker

 

[BuntonRules]

I reckon every player should have his own umpire.

 

[McIvor]

This has seemed like a gap to me for a long time - keep the umpires forward and behind the ball, and with two umpires at the contest there's a lot lower chance of high contact and various other infringements going unseen.

However it's not going to address "interpretations of the week" that see people tackled to the ground and then allowed to get a handball away, or "drops" (throws) to advantage, etc.

And no doubt the AFL and the media pundits will be patting themselves on the back with an average increase of score of 7.2 points per game or some arbitrary amaount.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I reckon every player should have his own umpire.

Patrick Cripps definitely did when he played us last fortnight, in regards to that bump to Ah Chee.

How the hell he got off without any charge but Ah Chee misses two matches from his concussion astounds me.

 

[Section 5]

The bounce should have been abolished a very very long time ago

So unfair when center clearances are so important in the modern game even more so when 6-6-6 introduced
Wastes time when recalled which is often
Not always recalled which is also unfair
Stops umpires from staying in the game as the bounce not required at community level unlil a later age
Umpires have regularly called for it to be scrapped. From at least 2017 anyhow
Physical damage (back,shoulders hamstrings) to umpires can be avoided.
Will also encourage more females to take up umpiring

Lions last 3 games had 33, 33 & 25 center bounces.
Plus umpires have to practice way more during training just to get it to an acceptable level
Anyone thinking this is physically easy go try it 30 times with some breaks. Ensuring to get ball high into air for a fair contest
....
1891
Introduction of centre bounce after every goal as well as at the start of quarters.

For the traditionalists the game had been going 33 years before the above rule was introduced
The game has changed over time. See below some odd rules (by present standards) that were changed.
Even so they may not have been odd at the time

No time limit existed for matches
The captains to toss for choice of goal. The loser’s team to kick off from the centre to start play.
Tripping and pushing permitted, but no hacking
After each goal was kicked, teams to change ends.
A player with the ball required to immediately drop it if tackled by an opponent.
A field umpire being appealed to could either award a free kick, call play on or stop play and throw the ball into the air to discourage scrimmages.
*The distance of the behind posts from the goal posts decreased from 18.2m to 9.1m.
Minimum distance of ball-travel for a mark decreased from 4.5m to 1.8m.
Players unnecessarily delaying disposal from marks or kick-offs were deprived of possession and a ball-up resulted.
*The distance of the behind posts from the goal posts decreased from 9.1m to 6.4m.
No player was permitted within two metres of the ball until it touched the ground following a ruck contest at a centre bounce.
Trainers banned from delivering coaches’ messages.
Boundary umpires’ whistles first used in place of white handkerchiefs.
Coaches’ runners were permitted to speak to team captains and vice-captains only on the field during matches.
**Player awarded free obliged to kick the ball.
**Player awarded free again given option of kick or handpass
Umpires empowered to recall an errant bounce at a stoppage and replace it with a throw-up.(from Year 2009)

 

[western royboy]

Patrick Cripps definitely did when he played us last fortnight, in regards to that bump to Ah Chee.

How the hell he got off without any charge but Ah Chee misses two matches from his concussion astounds me.

Nothing to do with the incident unfortunately, technicality on how the jury was instructed by the Tribunal Chairman - lack of common sense but “rule of law”

 

[lionraven]

I feel a large part of the 'variation in interpretation' can be explained due to the limited views field umpires have at some contests. Whether you think someone ducked into a tackle/shrugged their shoulder, was rolled in the tackle or pushed in the back, the tackles disposed the ball or the player incorrectly disposed the ball depends on the angle you see the contest at and the distance you are from the play. We get the benefit of the AFL media showing us the best angle with the footage slowed down. The AFL umpire sees it in real time in between several bodies and potentially from the wrong angle.

Case in point: 2 weeks ago it looked like Preuss hip and shouldered Merret from the Dons in an off the ball hit when viewed from the side angle. It looked like a hit that deserved a week or two. Then on review by the MRO a 45 degree angle showed that Preuss hit Merret on the point of his shoulder with his own shoulder and then Merret threw his head back to stage for a free kick.

The more umpires we have, the less off-the-ball holds you will see going unpunished. I hate going to the live game and seeing Cameron, McCluggage or Neale being absolutely held with full guernsey pull 5-10m off the stoppage without any consequence. Cameron and Daniher get absolutely manhandleded on many fast breakaways but the field umpire rarely sees/pays them as they are too focussed on the contest at hand and running rather than looking 40m down in our F50 on the breakaway.

The number of frees being paid has no bearing. The number will always fluctuate and will reduce as players learn they cant get away with borderline bullshit if there are more eyes on the ground watching.

 

[seanthelion]

Sudoku Setter

If anyone is into sudoku, I've made a sudoku based on AFL! How? You may ask. I've drawn some lines and symbols that have conditions on what numbers can go there. The constraints are specified in the rules in the bottom left box. The lines and symbols make up the goalposts and 4 AFL logos. If you think you have solved it, shoot me a pm.



On SM-A226B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Viceregal]

Sudoku Setter

If anyone is into sudoku, I've made a sudoku based on AFL! How? You may ask. I've drawn some lines and symbols that have conditions on what numbers can go there. The constraints are specified in the rules in the bottom left box. The lines and symbols make up the goalposts and 4 AFL logos. If you think you have solved it, shoot me a pm.



On SM-A226B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Patently I am a total amateur at Sudoku - I didn't even know half of those variations in the rules were even a thing until I read them!!!

 

[seanthelion]

Patently I am a total amateur at Sudoku - I didn't even know half of those variations in the rules were even a thing until I read them!!!

There are more constraints that are common, and you can of course make up your own. I recommend checking out the youtube channel "Cracking the Cryptic" for more if you are interested. Every day the 2 hosts solve one sudoku each, submitted by viewers if tge channel. I want to submit mine so that they can find out about AFL (hosts are very British).

Here are some great solving videos if you have time:

A miracle sudoku where only two numbers are given:

Another awesome one where only 5 green lines are given and some go outside the grid! :


On SM-A226B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crimso]

No more field umpire’s, just mic the boundary umpire’s to give their view of what happened.

 

[Sanchez365]

I feel a large part of the 'variation in interpretation' can be explained due to the limited views field umpires have at some contests. Whether you think someone ducked into a tackle/shrugged their shoulder, was rolled in the tackle or pushed in the back, the tackles disposed the ball or the player incorrectly disposed the ball depends on the angle you see the contest at and the distance you are from the play. We get the benefit of the AFL media showing us the best angle with the footage slowed down. The AFL umpire sees it in real time in between several bodies and potentially from the wrong angle.

Case in point: 2 weeks ago it looked like Preuss hip and shouldered Merret from the Dons in an off the ball hit when viewed from the side angle. It looked like a hit that deserved a week or two. Then on review by the MRO a 45 degree angle showed that Preuss hit Merret on the point of his shoulder with his own shoulder and then Merret threw his head back to stage for a free kick.

The more umpires we have, the less off-the-ball holds you will see going unpunished. I hate going to the live game and seeing Cameron, McCluggage or Neale being absolutely held with full guernsey pull 5-10m off the stoppage without any consequence. Cameron and Daniher get absolutely manhandleded on many fast breakaways but the field umpire rarely sees/pays them as they are too focussed on the contest at hand and running rather than looking 40m down in our F50 on the breakaway.

The number of frees being paid has no bearing. The number will always fluctuate and will reduce as players learn they cant get away with borderline bullshit if there are more eyes on the ground watching.

I don't entirely disagree with this, but we already have 3 umpires that seem to generally be situated infront of, inside and behind ant contest. Why aren't those umpires looking around to cover their respective areas already.

I mean we also see Cameron in particular get scragged even when he's going for a loose ball and it's play on. I don't see how it is ever not holding if you impede someone's run at the ball from behind. Even if you don't have a jumper. There's alot of "pre tackling" that the game allows you to get away with these days.

 

[Section 5]

2/3/4 umpires will it really make any difference ?.
All depends on the AFL and what they deem needs addressing in the modern game without upholding existing rules.
The AFL get around this by "interpretation" and "ignoring" rules already in place

There is literally hundreds of free kicks that should be paid over any given weekend under existing rules
Maybe frees are paid in junior footy but i have not attended junior footy for a very long time.
If implimented at Senior/AFL level the game would be classed as a "sissies" game so we just let things go
Then out of the blue free kicks are paid either because things go too far behind play or a player takes a dive.
Or a midfielder is pinged for holding, when a 100 are let go.
With Fagan mentioning Neale's attention the last few weeks lets see if this is the rule of the week starting tonight

The sub rule for prohibited contact for example is 18.3.3. It is at the end of this rule when if should be the first mentioned as it referrs to "permitted contact" and clearly states 5 meters. Anything outside 5 meters is prohibited and mentioned. I highlighted some below

Of course the fans love a bit of push and shove so the AFL let it go by not advising umpires to cut it out of the game
Then out of the blue one is paid usually resulting in a goal. Replays often just see it as a dive by said player. However that rule is their for inforcement but rarely used
Below the rule but i have put the sub rule first

18.3.3 Permitted Contact A Player may use their hip, shoulder, chest, arms or open hands provided that the football is no more than five metres away from the Player and the Player does not make Prohibited Contact as per Law 18.3.2 above.

18.3 PROHIBITED CONTACT 18.3.1 Spirit and Intention
A Player who makes the football their sole objective shall be provided every opportunity to do so.
18.3.2 Free Kicks - Prohibited Contact A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player when that Player makes any of the following Prohibited Contact with an opposition Player:
(a) executes a tackle that is not legal (refer to the definition of Legal Tackle);
(b) pushes or bumps an opposition Player in the back;
(c) makes high contact to an opposition Player (including the top of the shoulders) with any part of their body;
(d) holds an opposition Player who is not in possession of the football;
(e) executes an illegal Shepherd;
(f) Charges an opposition Player;
(g) trips or attempts to trip an opposition Player, whether by hand, arm, foot or leg;

 

[briztoon]

How much stick is Rich going to get.

 

[Zozzie]

The bounce should have been abolished a very very long time ago

So unfair when center clearances are so important in the modern game even more so when 6-6-6 introduced
Wastes time when recalled which is often
Not always recalled which is also unfair
Stops umpires from staying in the game as the bounce not required at community level unlil a later age
Umpires have regularly called for it to be scrapped. From at least 2017 anyhow
Physical damage (back,shoulders hamstrings) to umpires can be avoided.
Will also encourage more females to take up umpiring

Lions last 3 games had 33, 33 & 25 center bounces.
Plus umpires have to practice way more during training just to get it to an acceptable level
Anyone thinking this is physically easy go try it 30 times with some breaks. Ensuring to get ball high into air for a fair contest
....
1891
Introduction of centre bounce after every goal as well as at the start of quarters.

For the traditionalists the game had been going 33 years before the above rule was introduced
The game has changed over time. See below some odd rules (by present standards) that were changed.
Even so they may not have been odd at the time

No time limit existed for matches
The captains to toss for choice of goal. The loser’s team to kick off from the centre to start play.
Tripping and pushing permitted, but no hacking
After each goal was kicked, teams to change ends.
A player with the ball required to immediately drop it if tackled by an opponent.
A field umpire being appealed to could either award a free kick, call play on or stop play and throw the ball into the air to discourage scrimmages.
*The distance of the behind posts from the goal posts decreased from 18.2m to 9.1m.
Minimum distance of ball-travel for a mark decreased from 4.5m to 1.8m.
Players unnecessarily delaying disposal from marks or kick-offs were deprived of possession and a ball-up resulted.
*The distance of the behind posts from the goal posts decreased from 9.1m to 6.4m.
No player was permitted within two metres of the ball until it touched the ground following a ruck contest at a centre bounce.
Trainers banned from delivering coaches’ messages.
Boundary umpires’ whistles first used in place of white handkerchiefs.
Coaches’ runners were permitted to speak to team captains and vice-captains only on the field during matches.
**Player awarded free obliged to kick the ball.
**Player awarded free again given option of kick or handpass
Umpires empowered to recall an errant bounce at a stoppage and replace it with a throw-up.(from Year 2009)

My opinion is it's a great tradition. It was a good decision to get rid of them around the ground, to quicken things up, however the centre bounce is only at the start of quarters and after goals, so it doesn't take away much time and is a unique icon of our game. I live abroad, so when I show footy to a person for the first time, along with the big bumps and the high flying marks, they're usually most amazed by the running bounce and the centre bounce. Also it gives a bit of unpredictability in the game, which makes it interesting.
Regarding injuries, there are many umpires, who have umpired over 400 games, with most of those in the times when bouncing was mandatory around the ground. I umpire local games and I like to do it. It took a bit of practise to get it right, but it's pretty easy to get the hang of it,

 

[M Malice]

My opinion is it's a great tradition. It was a good decision to get rid of them around the ground, to quicken things up, however the centre bounce is only at the start of quarters and after goals, so it doesn't take away much time and is a unique icon of our game. I live abroad, so when I show footy to a person for the first time, along with the big bumps and the high flying marks, they're usually most amazed by the running bounce and the centre bounce. Also it gives a bit of unpredictability in the game, which makes it interesting.
Regarding injuries, there are many umpires, who have umpired over 400 games, with most of those in the times when bouncing was mandatory around the ground. I umpire local games and I like to do it. It took a bit of practise to get it right, but it's pretty easy to get the hang of it,

I can envision what will be next on the chopping block to help RSI issues... the boundary umpires throwing it in, it is too wearing on their shoulder joints... poor diddums. This younger generation of human really is soft, end old man rant.

 

[lionraven]

I can envision what will be next on the chopping block to help RSI issues... the boundary umpires throwing it in, it is too wearing on their shoulder joints... poor diddums. This younger generation of human really is soft, end old man rant.

Sorry this is not directed at you personally but I have a huge dislike for older generations speaking down on modern workers fighting for their rights to not be injured by their work. Over the past hundred years we have seen the landowner families like the Rhinehearts/Forrests make billions from riding globalisation and the rise of China. Meanwhile the FIFO workers who extract that wealth for these guys are left with broken bodies, chronic pain, substance abuse and broken families. During that time, the price of everything has outgrown wages so it is unlikely the average Australian will be able to afford their own home and home ownership rates have been decreasing. Its obvious that the workers are the soft ones here. Clearly they love being whipped from every single direction and should be returned to serfdom.

The AFL has grown from a suburban football venture to a billion dollar enterprise with its own stadium. They get billions of dollars in corporate money. They can afford to pay their umpires and make sure that they arent causing unneccesary harm to their employees. No one is showing up to the AFL to watch umpire bounce downs or throw ins. If these actions are causing the majority of injuries for umpires (and restricting women from participating), it makes sense to change these fringe aspects of football for maximal gain. Bring on the last touch lasso free kick from the womens game and go to ball ups. Most people will forget or care about these changes within 5 years of its implementation.

Its like the 6-6-6 rule where the media were crying for 6 months how teams werent able to make a Pagans paddock type play as soon as they hit a lead in the 4th quarter. Now no one cares and the game is much better for the amount of come-backs and close games that arise from teams with momentum winning centre-bounces and using the space available for proper forward craft.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Is there any evidence that bouncing a ball ten times a game causes back injuries?

 

[Zozzie]

No one is showing up to the AFL to watch umpire bounce downs or throw ins.

A bit exaggerated, but that's like saying nobody goes to the AFL to watch players handball, so we should allow them to throw the ball.
All of these skills have been around for more than 150 years and they make our game truly unique, as no other sports have them

 

[MSB ROYS]

Titus and Mick's podcast (Sports Bizarre) talks about John Wren, who first started a tote in 1893 in Johnston St, used the money to build a business empire often supporting the working class, and battling the VRC and anti-gamblers. I love these stories about Melbourne from then until the 1930s. Also, I didn't know that Wren once owned all of the racecourses in SE Qld except Eagle Farm.
How is it relevant to football? He was a wealthy benefactor of the Collingwood FC and allegedly gave cash to the players after a win, which infuriated other teams. Close friend with Jock McHale.

 

[M Malice]

Recorded a couple of days before Zorkogate, Brewing with Basti are Zorko and Froggy 3KZ is Football alert.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Recorded a couple of days before Zorkogate, Brewing with Basti are Zorko and Froggy 3KZ is Football alert.

It wasn’t me!

 

[M Malice]

That was a very interesting chat and some of it could be related back to the incident, Zorko was asked among other things> What do you want to do post footy? What makes you angry on the footy field?

 

[Lazza16]

Caro suggesting on ch9 footy show that Zorks may have got more than he gave sledge wise.