Football Related Random Thread - PART 2

[chopperduck]

Seems like the issue might be what your view of what traditional land owners should look like, rather than how white they actually are.

 

[briztoon]

Well I raised specific historical context to explain why what you feel to be “representative” isn’t actually accurate, nor possible in most cases.

I don’t think you really seem interested in engaging with it which now makes me question your motives in the original post.

As a history teacher, I gave your intentions the benefit of the doubt but your follow-up now makes me wonder.

It’s quite possible in Brisbane. The welcome to country at the Gabba in the 2020 final we played is an example.

There are no motives to my original post. I’m incredibly shallow in that regard, in what I say is exactly what I mean.

It’s very simple, almost all the AFL’s welcome to country are performed by very “white“ Aboriginals. I would like to see them performed by people who are more representative of the traditional owners of our lands.

 

[briztoon]

So you're wondering why representatives of traditional lands that have are now urban areas dominated by the descendants of European immigrants aren't more dark-skinned like those in more remote communities? And you're also asking that they should engage in some more pubic speaking training?

Perhaps give it all a bit more thought.

Ever visited the office under the cafe on Mt Gravatt?

There are plenty of dark skinned Aboriginals in Brisbane, certainly in Perth as well.

 

[martinson]

I don't pretend to be as educated as some of the learned people here on this issue but I'm privileged to live half my life in the Far North and have done a little work in the indigenous communities here and seen things I would never have wished to witness , other things that are heartwarming and a cause for optimism , and heard many stories of the past.

I take it all in. I don't have any answers as to the future.

 

[Elixuh]

It’s quite possible in Brisbane. The welcome to country at the Gabba in the 2020 final we played is an example.

There are no motives to my original post. I’m incredibly shallow in that regard, in what I say is exactly what I mean.

It’s very simple, almost all the AFL’s welcome to country are performed by very “white“ Aboriginals. I would like to see them performed by people who are more representative of the traditional owners of our lands.

People don't usually self-report these kind of things, credit to you my dude, credit to you.

 

[briztoon]

the colour of an aboriginal Australian's skin does not determine how connected they are to their indigenous heritage

You are correct.

But that’s not what I was trying to highlight.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Ever visited the office under the cafe on Mt Gravatt?

There are plenty of dark skinned Aboriginals in Brisbane, certainly in Perth as well.

Well, I'm sure they'd be happy to hear your suggestions on the matter.

I'm not commenting any further on this patently ludicrous point of view. My neck is tired from shaking my head.

 

[western royboy]

Seems like the issue might be what your view of what traditional land owners should look like, rather than how white they actually are.

Reflective of a cohort of people sadly like my parents…ignorant fools fed stereotypes by a complicit media, like a form of indoctrination

 

[briztoon]

I didn't think you could make a s**t take even worse, but here we are.

What, that I have an issue that two of the welcome to country I watched this weekend, sounded like they were performed by people who didn’t naturally speak the language?

 

[Nunez]

What, that I have an issue that two of the welcome to country I watched this weekend, sounded like they were performed by people who didn’t naturally speak the language?

Yes. It's an extremely shit take.

 

[Nunez]

Honestly, imagine telling an indigenous person they're not indigenous enough to do the welcome to country. ****ing hell.

 

[briztoon]

People don't usually self-report these kind of things, credit to you my dude, credit to you.

You’ll have to explain that to me in a less nuanced way.

 

[Hollow Knight]

What, that I have an issue that two of the welcome to country I watched this weekend, sounded like they were performed by people who didn’t naturally speak the language?

Gee, now I wonder what historical events could have limited the transfer of culture, language, customs and traditions, making it desperately difficult for subsequent generations to desperately hold on to what was stolen from them.

 

[briztoon]

Honestly, imagine telling an indigenous person they're not indigenous enough to do the welcome to country. ******* hell.

I don’t mean that at all.

So you have no problem with someone learning the lines of a language they’re not potentially familiar with, performing such a ceremony.

 

[Nunez]

I don’t mean that at all.

So you have no problem with someone learning the lines of a language they’re not potentially familiar with, performing such a ceremony.

You're embarassing yourself mate. You're a white guy being critical of indigenous people doing their welcome to country in a way that doesn't fit with your expectations. I would say it's bordering on racist, but I think you've crossed that border.

 

[Elixuh]

I don’t mean that at all.

So you have no problem with someone learning the lines of a language they’re not potentially familiar with, performing such a ceremony.

You strike me as someone who has some level of formal education, what're you doing? Your want for Indigenous people to conform to your stereotypes is ****ing disgusting.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I don’t mean that at all.

So you have no problem with someone learning the lines of a language they’re not potentially familiar with, performing such a ceremony.

It’s a miracle that even partial records of some of these languages exist. Most of the 250+ indigenous languages spoken pre-settlement have been almost entirely lost forever.

Honestly dude, the cultural and historical blind spots you have really make this a bizarre line of inquiry to pursue.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You strike me as someone who has some level of formal education, what're you doing? Your want for Indigenous people to conform to your stereotypes is ******* disgusting.

It would be like a white American saying they would have taken MLK Jr more seriously as a spokesperson for African American civil rights if he had carried a spear and worn a bone through his nose.

 

[briztoon]

Alright, I can’t reply to every post here.

Two of the performances sounded to me like they were performed by people who struggled with the language. Hollow Knight these are languages that we have had welcome to country in many times before, by different individuals. It made me question the AFL’s choice of performer.

You strike me as someone who has some level of formal education, what're you doing? Your want for Indigenous people to conform to your stereotypes is ******* disgusting.

This I take on board.

I wasn’t looking for a stereotype.

Welcome to country doesn’t have to be performed by someone with darker skin.

 

[Nunez]

I expect to cop some flak for this.

And I do not know how to phrase this appropriately.


I know there are many Aboriginal people with lighter skin, but I find most of the “welcome to country elders” that represent the AFL very “white”, and they don’t really represent the traditional owners of our land, to my eyes.

How is it a s**t comment when it sounded like two of the participants on different nights, sounded like they were reciting a learned script and didn’t actually know the language they were speaking.

Hollow Knight I am very much aware of what happened to Aboriginal peoples in Australia. Back in the 80’s my mother did an Aboriginal rangers course, and I traveled all over QLD with my mum, visiting many communities and sites, learning about their cultures and their histories.

I am saying that it would be nice to see people more representative of the traditional owners of our land, rather than people that could be mistaken for being European.

It’s quite possible in Brisbane. The welcome to country at the Gabba in the 2020 final we played is an example.

There are no motives to my original post. I’m incredibly shallow in that regard, in what I say is exactly what I mean.

It’s very simple, almost all the AFL’s welcome to country are performed by very “white“ Aboriginals. I would like to see them performed by people who are more representative of the traditional owners of our lands.

Alright, I can’t reply to every post here.

Two of the performances sounded to me like they were performed by people who struggled with the language. Hollow Knight these are languages that we have had welcome to country in many times before, by different individuals. It made me question the AFL’s choice of performer.


This I take on board.

I wasn’t looking for a stereotype.

Welcome to country doesn’t have to be performed by someone with darker skin.

The contradiction is real.

No digging yourself out of this one. Go get educated and learn from your ignorance.

 

[Jivlain]

What, that I have an issue that two of the welcome to country I watched this weekend, sounded like they were performed by people who didn’t naturally speak the language?

Many Aboriginal languages were genocidally suppressed. Many elders were probably actively prevented and/or punished for any attempt at learning the language when they were children, and in the cases of some languages, everyone who actually grew up with it as a language has since died. But you have people who have a connection to that history and are trying their best to rebuild some lost culture but what they've got to work with is problematic* translations or audio recordings from the 60s or whatever. A commendable thing to do.

* there's a book of Dreaming stories I came across, recorded by an Anglican missionary, plus a few small translation dictionaries and the Lord's prayer translated into a few languages. And the thing about it is, I recognised a bunch of the stories and noticed the way that they had been manipulated to insert a need for a some sort of subsequent sacrificial redemptive saviour into them. I think about that a bunch. Anyway, it's kinda problematic if a bunch of the few sources you've still got to resurrect your culture from are part of a deliberate ploy to destroy that culture.

 

[martinson]

It's actually interesting the variations of different languages spoken by families living in the same community or at least dialects of the same language. There's promotion of languages that have been partially lost in Mossman and surrounding areas and some attempts to revitalise them in Primary schools which as far as I'm aware is ongoing.

 

[Gadzorks]

It's actually interesting the variations of different languages spoken by families living in the same community or at least dialects of the same language. There's promotion of languages that have been partially lost in Mossman and surrounding areas and some attempts to revitalise them in Primary schools which as far as I'm aware is ongoing.

We generalise indigenous as one race? Culture? But the regional differences geographically and culturally are similar to the differences between close countries like Greece, Albania, Macedonia.

The targeted murder wiped out entire cultures.

 

[Dalions]

I wonder if Schools around the Country could incorporate an Indigenous dialogue that is native to the area of the School as a lesson instead of French, German, Japanese or Spanish?
Maybe a class learning the language and the cultures.
We all need to learn more.

 

[rye]

I wonder if Schools around the Country could incorporate an Indigenous dialogue that is native to the area of the School as a lesson instead of French, German, Japanese or Spanish?
Maybe a class learning the language and the cultures.
We all need to learn more.

the compulsory australian history subject i received in high school was centered around the first european explorers to visit australia and the first fleet + colony

we did not touch on indigenous history at all really. either pre colonisation or post colonisation

it could have changed in the 10 years since then, but i felt like that was a pretty big omission in my high school education. at the very least people should know about the stolen generation so they know nuffies like andrew bolt are talking rubbish when they say its fake