List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Taylor]

And assuming North wanted Brayshaw last season and offered pick #2 and #3 to us after Jackson was traded to us... we still wouldn't have taken it.

So untouchable is also a measure of being open to trade but only for a price so prohibitive so as to make it impossible.

 

[Square Peg]

Trying to keep it in the realms of possibility. Pretty sure all players are tradeable if some other club is completely stupid but can’t remember the last time a player was shipped against their will to bring in someone else (Burton from Hawks maybe) and Lachie Weller deals are a very big exception. Basically “untouchable” in list management terms would be meeting halfway from some other teams Logue type offer. Kinda a step before the actual trade negotiations

So, players your prepared to pay a bit more than your comfortable to keep around.

Ah OK I get it now. Anyway my second post would be my list of those, plus maybe add a couple more of speculative ones that could turn out to be anything like Frederick, Walker and Johnson. I would definitely not pay overs to keep some of the ones you have on your untouchable list like Ryan or Jaegar

 

[Alfonz]

I love Darcy and want him to stay, but I'm not sure he is as untouchable as people think. If Jackson does not excel somewhere outside the ruck, then it is questionable list management to have 2 x #1 rucks taking up 1.5 - 2 milion of the salary cap. However, I have hope that Jackson will indeed be able to be a gun outside the ruck.

But it might be out of our hands anyway. Geelong will probably come calling again at the end of 2024. Stanley, Blicavs and Ceglar are 32. Conway and Neale are young and unproven. As much as we want to keep him, it will be hard to compete with their long term benefits. They have found the perfect way to rort the system with farm/land/speaking deals (e.g. Hawkins, Dangerfield, Cameron, etc) and I think it is 50/50 whether we are going to be able to keep him.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I love Darcy and want him to stay, but I'm not sure he is as untouchable as people think. If Jackson does not excel somewhere outside the ruck, then it is questionable list management to have 2 x #1 rucks taking up 1.5 - 2 milion of the salary cap. However, I have hope that Jackson will indeed be able to be a gun outside the ruck.

But it might be out of our hands anyway. Geelong will probably come calling again at the end of 2024. Stanley, Blicavs and Ceglar are 32. Conway and Neale are young and unproven. As much as we want to keep him, it will be hard to compete with their long term benefits. They have found the perfect way to rort the system with farm/land/speaking deals (e.g. Hawkins, Dangerfield, Cameron, etc) and I think it is 50/50 whether we are going to be able to keep him.

Darcy is one I nearly highlighted for that reason but the thing is, I'm not convinced Jackson will be as good as a pure ruckman as Darcy so while we could comfortably "manage" with Jackson as the number 1 ruck (at least by the time Darcy is out of contract), I'd want to keep him.

I personally think that Darcy absolutely loves it here and he's not the type of guy to chase extra cash anyway.

 

[Taylor]

I hope Sumich starts talking about Darcy going to Geelong end of 2024 around about the middle of the year, get Sean all worked up and signing an extension over the bye.

Just like last time.

 

[dockerfemme]

I am not sure I have wrapped my mind round the definition of untouchable, but I will put forward an opinion regardless.

If actually forced to choose my favourite child (or something) I would put Amiss and Freddie in the most untouchable basket as I think they are the ones that could be elite forwards and heavens knows they are hard to come by.

I would then have a group of a few young guns who, I think, make the culture. Andy, Caleb and Youngy at the top of those followed up by Chappy, NOD, big Sean, Clark and Brennan.

I am, and always have been, a big Brennan fan, but I am surprised to see the love he is getting as an untouchable.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I am not sure I have wrapped my mind round the definition of untouchable, but I will put forward an opinion regardless.

If actually forced to choose my favourite child (or something) I would put Amiss and Freddie in the most untouchable basket as I think they are the ones that could be elite forwards and heavens knows they are hard to come by.

I would then have a group of a few young guns who, I think, make the culture. Andy, Caleb and Youngy at the top of those followed up by Chappy, NOD, big Sean, Clark and Brennan.

I am, and always have been, a big Brennan fan, but I am surprised to see the love he is getting as an untouchable.

Haha, think I need change the header of untouchable to "do everything reasonable to keep"

Cox is a prime age, AA squad key defender where we dont have anything to replace him. Puts him in the "do everything reasonable to keep" bracket

 

[tonygeeks]

I see good old Fyfemantle is alive and well

If he doesn’t fire as a fwd or breaks down again and misses half the season then what ?

 

[Taylor]

I see good old Fyfemantle is alive and well

If he doesn’t fire as a fwd or breaks down again and misses half the season then what ?

Then Gold Coast offering him a huge deal as a free agent to move there will become more attractive than the Fremantle offer, won't it?

 

[Docker82]

To follow on from this, I thought it'd be an interesting exercise to try to group them, so I've given it a shot. Highlighted players are the ones I'd consider others might find contentious but I suppose the key question you have to ask for each of these players is, if another club offered 20% - 30% more than you are (ie Logue, Acres), would you meet half way to keep or let them go?

Table can be copy and pasted if anyone wants to have a go themselves, I've given the untouchables a position to demonstrate that their are very few forwards I think you could put in untouchable.

Do Everything to Keep	Preferred Keep	Vets / Depth	Development
Amiss (F)	Brodie	Fyfe	Erasmus
Brayshaw (M)	Schultz	Walters	Johnson
Jackson (?)	Switkowski	Colyer	Knobel
Cox (D)	Aish	Hamling	Sturt
Serong (M)	Taberner	Wilson	Henry
Chapman (D)	Walker	Reidy	Emmett
Young (D)		Corbett	Draper
Darcy (R)		Hughes	Benning
Clark (D)		Wagner	Worner
Ryan (D)		Banfield	Williams
O'Driscoll (M)		Pearce	Kuek
Frederick (F)			Davies
O'Meara (M)
Treacy (F)

Tbh I'd be moving Johnson and Erasmus straight across to the left.

They probably not as suited to a wing position as NOD but they'll superior talents.

Also Pearce is younger than Taberner. He's critical to our medium term success as a team imo. By the time his current contract expires he might be replaceable but isn't ATM.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Tbh I'd be moving Johnson and Erasmus straight across to the left.

They probably not as suited to a wing position as NOD but they'll superior talents.

Also Pearce is younger than Taberner. He's critical to our medium term success as a team imo. By the time his current contract expires he might be replaceable but isn't ATM.

Yep, I wanted to put them in there but I kept them in the "development" column simply because we havent been able to see enough of them (or anything at all) at AFL level. I think both are potential AB / Serong level untouchables but it feels like purple glasses to be that optimistic on two basically untried kids.

Hopefully the club has them in that left column because we are looking freaking good if they are.

Pearce I also struggled with because of just signing a contract, could definitely have in the left

 

[theGav56]

Is untouchable meant to mean we wouldn't trade them for any price? I get the idea, but technically I would suggest very few players are untradeable if the price we're offered is stupid enough.
Excluding because of age Fyfe and Walters that were previously in that category, personally I would currently only put Darcy and Cox into that rarefied air in that they can't really be adequately replaced as players. Then of course a big number behind them that are elite players we clearly want to keep but not to the point where they're untouchable if the offer is stupid enough.

Jackson would have been in Melbourne's 'untouchable' column. Now he's in ours.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Another list management discussion point since I'm avoiding work like the plague here. A magical genie ****s out of the air and gives you the option to immediately swap Amiss and Naughton, yes or no?

 

[Joao]

Haha, think I need change the header of untouchable to "do everything reasonable to keep"

Cox is a prime age, AA squad key defender where we dont have anything to replace him. Puts him in the "do everything reasonable to keep" bracket

That not doing it for you?

Another list management discussion point since I'm avoiding work like the plague here. A magical genie ****s out of the air and gives you the option to immediately swap Amiss and Naughton, yes or no?

That's tough. Naughton miles better atm but I feel 90% of that is just that he is a monster in the air. Once Jhye fills out I think he'll be at least as good.

The rational fan is forced forced to take Naughton because he has done it, but I'll keep Amiss.

 

[GingerDocker]

Another list management discussion point since I'm avoiding work like the plague here. A magical genie ****s out of the air and gives you the option to immediately swap Amiss and Naughton, yes or no?

 

[Arcassius]

Another list management discussion point since I'm avoiding work like the plague here. A magical genie ****s out of the air and gives you the option to immediately swap Amiss and Naughton, yes or no?

Hmm he's a strong marker but his goal accuracy is 50/50 - I'd back in amiss with his forward craft and better accuracy (on a small sample size)

Also - why not both?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Hmm he's a strong marker but his goal accuracy is 50/50 - I'd back in amiss with his forward craft and better accuracy (on a small sample size)

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Tapatalk

View attachment 1601232


That not doing it for you?



That's tough. Naughton miles better atm but I feel 90% of that is just that he is a monster in the air. Once Jhye fills out I think he'll be at least as good.

The rational fan is forced forced to take Naughton because he has done it, but I'll keep Amiss.

Oooph, three rational posters / thinkers saying no.

Maybe it's following NBA a lot now but the rational thinking should basically be to take Naughton every time really. Fits our timeline better and is actually basically 100% proven. Naughton is a bit of the victim of being elite basically straight away where he's gotten to the "he's good, but I'd want better" stage. He's basically as good as it gets as a 23 year old KPF.

Put it this way, how happy would we be with a return like this from Amiss over the next 4 years...

 

[Alfonz]

Hmm he's a strong marker but his goal accuracy is 50/50 - I'd back in amiss with his forward craft and better accuracy (on a small sample size)

Also - why not both?

Naughton's innaccuracy is overstated. At least last year. He went at 60%, which was slightly better than King and McKay, on par with Hawkins and Curnow, and slightly worse than Cameron.

He was worse when he started, and can still spray the odd shot horribly (which is what sticks in people's minds). But he has shown improvement and last year he was fairly good for accuracy.

 

[Taylor]

Aaron Naughton

33

Aaron Naughton

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

0.8

1star

G

0.5

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

had 97 shots at goal in 2022 for a total of 51 goals. 52.57% accuracy.

Hawkins went at 53.6%, Cameron at 55.6%, Curnow at 54.7%, Tom Lynch 63.6%, Wright at 62.4%, Franklin at 55.9%, Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

at 49.1%

... to round out the rest of the goal kickers who kicked 50 goals or more.

Best for the year was Josh Corbett

19

Josh Corbett

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

at 80%.

Tabs sits at 67.6%

 

[ignoramus]

the rational thinking should basically be to take Naughton every time really.

You're wanting a rational thinking response to a hypothetical that began with "A magical genie ****s out of the air..."

Either way, it's a "no" for me, because I think (expect, hope) Amiss to go at least a goal a game from the outset and be up to two a game at least as quickly as Naughton, and also because (fingers crossed) we get to enjoy Amiss for the entirety of his career.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

You're wanting a rational thinking response to a hypothetical that began with "A magical genie ****s out of the air..."

Either way, it's a "no" for me, because I think (expect, hope) Amiss to go at least a goal a game from the outset and be up to two a game at least as quickly as Naughton, and also because (fingers crossed) we get to enjoy Amiss for the entirety of his career.

Nah, I'm just throwing up discussion points, not really wanting anything =)

 

[Bigger]

In his best year, playing in a lesser team, Corbett's goal average was better than Lobb's best year. Corbett's goalkicking accuracy is elite.
He may be undersized and one-paced for the way he plays - lead-up marking forward - but he kicks goals.

Same as Stubba. He's a chunker but he kicks goals.

There are dudes who, despite reason, just kick goals. I have seen them. These dudes exist.

They are your actual classic footy version of moneyball options. The reality is they probably can't do it consistently enough - for whatever reason - but I reckon we give 'em a chance to do it.

We believe in you. Just kick us some ****en goals.

 

[Joao]

Oooph, three rational posters / thinkers saying no.

Maybe it's following NBA a lot now but the rational thinking should basically be to take Naughton every time really. Fits our timeline better and is actually basically 100% proven. Naughton is a bit of the victim of being elite basically straight away where he's gotten to the "he's good, but I'd want better" stage. He's basically as good as it gets as a 23 year old KPF.

Put it this way, how happy would we be with a return like this from Amiss over the next 4 years...

View attachment 1601238

No question if I weren't a freo fan I'd say Naughton but as the only KPF of note taken since last millennium, I am way more attached to Amiss than I would otherwise be.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Lol, speak for yourself.

I’m speaking about the giant thread we had in here when they were going into their 3rd year but ok. Must have just been my imagination.

 

[FreoRicci]

Brayshaw and Cerra had a dozen or more games under their belts at the same age as Erasmus. Both he and Johnson are looking physically and mentally as capable of playing as them.

Ross just threw them to the wolves and delisted any mature aged midfielder.
I like this development path for Erasmus and Johnson. Still play against men in the WAFL, push for selection and when they do they’re protected by an elite midfield.