Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[naysayer]

I said he not one of the best of all time and not the best inside mid in the game, don't change what I said.

Seems like you're the one changing what you said. That's precisely what your post is implying.

 

[theiaofseed]

Judd2Sewell So you actually believe Oliver is one of the best inside mids in the history of the game then?

Seems like you're the one changing what you said. That's precisely what your post is implying.

I'm implying what exactly?

That he's not the best inside mid in the game? How exactly is that me changing my opinion??

 

[naysayer]

Judd2Sewell So you actually believe Oliver is one of the best inside mids in the history of the game then?


I'm implying what exactly?

That he's not the best inside mid in the game? How exactly is that me changing my opinion??

Not changing your opinion, but denying something you clearly said. Don't waste people's time.

 

[theiaofseed]

Not changing your opinion, but denying something you clearly said. Don't waste people's time.

What did I clearly say? Show the post without claiming some bullshit "that what you implied" bullshit. Last chance I'll give you.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Oliver isn't even the best inside mid at Melbourne, let alone one of the best in the history of the game.

Spoiler

2023

Oliver (15 games)
Touches - 30.27
Contested - 14.60
% Contested - 48.23%
Total Clearances - 6.87
Centre Clearances - 2.67

Petracca (25 games)
Touches - 27.80
Contested - 14.00
% Contested - 50.36%
Total Clearances - 5.96
Centre Clearances - 2.00

Viney (24 games)
Touches - 25.63
Contested - 11.92
% Contested - 46.51%
Total Clearances - 4.96
Centre Clearances - 2.54

2022

Oliver (23 games)
Touches - 32.74
Contested - 17.78
% Contested - 54.30%
Total Clearances - 8.74
Centre Clearances - 3.04

Petracca (24 games)
Touches - 28.04
Contested - 12.71
% Contested - 45.33%
Total Clearances - 4.63
Centre Clearances - 1.67

Viney (22 games)
Touches - 25.68
Contested - 12.73
% Contested - 49.57%
Total Clearances - 4.95
Centre Clearances - 2.41

2021

Oliver (25 games)
Touches - 31.56
Contested - 17.44
% Contested - 55.26%
Total Clearances - 7.48
Centre Clearances - 2.92

Petracca (25 games)
Touches - 29.20
Contested - 13.96
% Contested - 47.81%
Total Clearances - 6.32
Centre Clearances - 2.80

Viney (15 games)
Touches - 22.33
Contested - 10.93
% Contested - 48.95%
Total Clearances - 5.33
Centre Clearances - 2.00

Totals over the last three seasons:

Oliver (63 games)
Touches - 31.68
Contested - 16.89
% Contested - 53.30%
Total Clearances - 7.79
Centre Clearances - 2.90

Petracca (74 games)
Touches - 28.35
Contested - 13.57
% Contested - 47.87%
Total Clearances - 5.65
Centre Clearances - 2.16

Viney (61 games)
Touches - 24.84
Contested - 11.97
% Contested - 48.19%
Total Clearances - 5.05
Centre Clearances - 2.36

 

[theiaofseed]

Spoiler

2023

Oliver (15 games)
Touches - 30.27
Contested - 14.60
% Contested - 48.23%
Total Clearances - 6.87
Centre Clearances - 2.67

Petracca (25 games)
Touches - 27.80
Contested - 14.00
% Contested - 50.36%
Total Clearances - 5.96
Centre Clearances - 2.00

Viney (24 games)
Touches - 25.63
Contested - 11.92
% Contested - 46.51%
Total Clearances - 4.96
Centre Clearances - 2.54

2022

Oliver (23 games)
Touches - 32.74
Contested - 17.78
% Contested - 54.30%
Total Clearances - 8.74
Centre Clearances - 3.04

Petracca (24 games)
Touches - 28.04
Contested - 12.71
% Contested - 45.33%
Total Clearances - 4.63
Centre Clearances - 1.67

Viney (22 games)
Touches - 25.68
Contested - 12.73
% Contested - 49.57%
Total Clearances - 4.95
Centre Clearances - 2.41

2021

Oliver (25 games)
Touches - 31.56
Contested - 17.44
% Contested - 55.26%
Total Clearances - 7.48
Centre Clearances - 2.92

Petracca (25 games)
Touches - 29.20
Contested - 13.96
% Contested - 47.81%
Total Clearances - 6.32
Centre Clearances - 2.80

Viney (15 games)
Touches - 22.33
Contested - 10.93
% Contested - 48.95%
Total Clearances - 5.33
Centre Clearances - 2.00

Totals over the last three seasons:

Oliver (63 games)
Touches - 31.68
Contested - 16.89
% Contested - 53.30%
Total Clearances - 7.79
Centre Clearances - 2.90

Petracca (74 games)
Touches - 28.35
Contested - 13.57
% Contested - 47.87%
Total Clearances - 5.65
Centre Clearances - 2.16

I smell a lazy stat watcher. If only there were other stats that told the whole story.

Oliver vs Petracca

2023
Goals .4 vs 1.1
Goal Assists .5 vs 1
Inside 50's 5.5 vs 5.9
Score involvements 6.4 vs 8.4
Meters gained 446 vs 540

2022
Goals .2 vs .8
Goal Assists .7 vs .8
Inside 50's 5.4 vs 6.5
Score involvements 7.0 vs 8.3
Meters gained 445 vs 500

2021
Goals .4 vs 1.2
Goal Assists .8 vs 1.2
Inside 50's 5.2 vs 6.8
Score involvements 7.2 vs 8.3
Meters gained 423 vs 539

Who had the better year??

 

[naysayer]

What did I clearly say? Show the post without claiming some bullshit "that what you implied" bullshit. Last chance I'll give you.

I showed you a screenshot. If you need assistance beyond there, I can't help you.

You mocked a post saying Oliver's the best contested player in the competition when he's fit. Clearly you didn't agree with it, yet when another poster claimed that's was your opinion, you claimed he'd "changed what you said".

And here I am, explaining to you that you're behaving like a moron. Sixpence was spot on.

If you're going to argue that Oliver's not a star player, you're going it alone.

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

They are deadset pushing him out, with his $7m contract.

Something is right off here. Our club would need to be certain we can eradicate the issue. But we are one of a few clubs who could accommodate the $7m slug.

We're not interested. Put this to bed as it was discussed and dismissed almost immediately yesterday.
Anything you hear from here on regarding us and Oliver will be pure media conjecture.
This is guaranteed.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Looks like Oliver needs an arm around him and a chance to get his personal life back on track.

If the rumours of moving in with Gawn are true I reckon he stays at Melbourne.

From a Hawthorn perspective, if you replace Worpel with Clarry, then WHOA. Day and Newcombe are different players.
From a list management perspective he isn't as pressing a need however, so if a trade occurs I don't see us being involved.

 

[SammyC]

Oliver is a star but I think when credible journos are floating it & morris too who is well connected at melb, then def some smoke.

From melbournes perspective, I don’t mind it. Nothing gets done and a wayward star gets a reality check OR they trade a position they are stacked in to get cash off the books and high picks to throw at the fwd they so desperately need to take the next step while max and a couple of others are still there. The window is narrowing.

I think smith is more aligned to our needs but Clarry is a genuinely elite player. Smith might get done for a top 10 pick, Oliver despite all his issues and contract would be 2xfirst round. They will keep him unless the offers are attractive - hope they have scared him straight.

 

[Agent_99]

Trading in Oliver would make us instantly better and also he’d assist us with creating some surplus players for us that might get us some semi decent picks in return - Nash, Worpel…

Anyone who’d choose those two over Oliver needs to get their head checked.

 

[Platten44]

It’s a no from Chol

 

[Hawked Wings]

It’s a no from Chol

Another miss, my god

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Another miss, my god

Missing on B Graders

No big deal

 

[Mojo]

It's not us, it's them...

 

[Hawked Wings]

Missing on B Graders

No big deal

You won’t be saying that when we struggle to kick more than 60 next year

 

[Fetnarr]

Trading in Oliver would make us instantly better and also he’d assist us with creating some surplus players for us that might get us some semi decent picks in return - Nash, Worpel…

Anyone who’d choose those two over Oliver needs to get their head checked.

Depends on the cost in terms of cash, picks and culture.
Is the upgrade of Worps to Clarry worth 300k + (or more) per season plus giving up picks? If his issues are real will that be disruptive to our group and the culture we are trying to build?

Clarry is a contested beast and gut runner but he can also be a turnover merchant. Very good player but the price has to be right. Gut feel is the dees will be asking too much.

I’d rather keep the cash and throw it at a gun forward. Even Bailey Smith as he would cost less in terms of cash and draft capital but I think a player of his type fits our system and needs more


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[suburb whispers]

It’s a no from Chol

Anyone left?

 

[VandoHawk]

While Chol isn’t that good we did need someone at CHF to help us structurally. Relying on Ryan/DGB is really uncomfortable.

 

[rei154]

You won’t be saying that when we struggle to kick more than 60 next year

We kicked less than 60 on 7 occasions this year, do you expect our scoring to get worse next year?
I'd imagine with full preseasons into Ryan, last years draft and Ramma on top of adding in Watson/Duurs/Smith our scoring will go up.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

You won’t be saying that when we struggle to kick more than 60 next year

Yes I will

Mabior Chol isnt getting a game infront of Levi Casboult

Says a lot about him

The rose colored glasses here are hilarious

 

[Wingnut19]

Yes I will

Mabior Chol isnt getting a game infront of Levi Casboult

Says a lot

Correct. Would be stupid giving up draft equity for a player like Chol, who’s contracted. Would only be ok to go after if he was a free hit.

 

[threesixpio]

Wishing for Chris Scott’s whinging to be amplified wasn’t on my 2023 bingo card - yet here we are.

Cue Chris Scott hands in the air gif

 

[suburb whispers]

Pick 4, F1, Scrimshaw and one of Mitchell’s twins for Naughton and B.Smith??

 

[killerspud]

I smell a lazy stat watcher. If only there were other stats that told the whole story.

Oliver vs Petracca

2023
Goals .4 vs 1.1
Goal Assists .5 vs 1
Inside 50's 5.5 vs 5.9
Score involvements 6.4 vs 8.4
Meters gained 446 vs 540

2022
Goals .2 vs .8
Goal Assists .7 vs .8
Inside 50's 5.4 vs 6.5
Score involvements 7.0 vs 8.3
Meters gained 445 vs 500

2021
Goals .4 vs 1.2
Goal Assists .8 vs 1.2
Inside 50's 5.2 vs 6.8
Score involvements 7.2 vs 8.3
Meters gained 423 vs 539

Who had the better year??

View attachment 1821425

To counter Judd2Sewells argument you have given stats from this year where Oliver has missed half the year through injury.

Then you've cherry picked stats which have nothing to do with being an inside mid and everything to do with being a forward and we all know Petracca is one of the best forward/mids in the game (more comparable to DeGoey, Stringer, Dusty etc)

So once again I ask do you actually watch any football or do you just like arguing for the sake of it. None of what you say makes any sense at all