Past #12: Lindsay Thomas - released by NM to pursue rookie list spot at PA - thx4 everything Lindsay

[ArjenTheGreat]

Or maybe you have Spurk fever for Edwards Arjen. You seem to have an irrational hatred for a guy who was one of our better players last year, and you seem to refuse to accept the rebuttals of what you classify your 'argument/proof'.

Heres petries highlights.


And of the top 8 teams, the ones he did well against were teams that werent exactly locks/playing well the entire year. Does this mean petrie is a poor player?

No.. clearly he is our most important player along with Wells. But compared to Carey or Lockett he is ordinary. Compared to Edwards, he is a superstar.

I'm about robust discussion... I don't hate anyone in the world.

Edwards has turned his life around and made great strides with his kicking... but IMO his marking has dropped off a touch and he is only slightly above mediocre once the ball hits the ground. Not to mention he is slow.

Now... given what I saw Tarrant do last week live and what Black did in a quarter against the Tiges in R22, (and that very sexy mark last week) I would hope that their development isn't halted by playing a 29 year old who isn't getting any better considering he WILL NOT be playing when our premiership window opens.

I'm not a firm believer in just because you are older, you are better and make less mistakes. Our senior blokes are the ones who let us down most frequently and with that in mind I would have no hesitation in putting the pressure on them and making them work for a spot in the 2's whilst letting the really talented kids we keep crapping on about actually play and learn.

 

[Husk]

No surprise that our forwards struggled when our mids were getting smashed against the top sides.

Edwards is still our best 3rd tall. Black will be the guy who replaces him, but thats a while away yet.

On topic, we definitely still need a dangerous small forward type to cement a spot. I think the player who most reminds me of Thomas is Wright. Not so the kicking obviously, but more the style of game. Being a small player who can take a grab, but also crumb and score goals on the run. If Sammy gets his sh_t together this year, he is the guy I would replace Lindsay with if he cant get over his goal kicking yips. Campbell is just to inconsistent. To many 5 disposal type games in amongst the odd good one.

 

[GarnerSmash]

So in short Arjen, am I correct that your thinking is that we should remove all players that will not be in our best 22 in 3 years time (except for Boomer and Petrie) for the overall developmental benefits of the team?

 

[Deleted member 98541]

I also think that Edwards would struggle to get a game at any of the top 5 clubs but we don't have anyone better at present to replace him.

So in one foul swoop you just write off the careers of Warren & McKinley. Nice going BE.

McKinley was a waste of a pick. We should've targeted a bit of leg speed instead.A few blokes with toe went in the rookie draft that year that might've came in handy.
Warren just doesn't have the extra tools. But if you go back 2 years this board was down on it's knees over Warren. Blokes questioning his longevity were probably getting shot down in much the same manner.

Btw, I don't mind Edwards. Hope he takes some hangers this year to get the peeps up on their feet every now and then. I am certain he'll have his best year yet if the midfield improves and he gets some decent delivery.

 

[naturally north]

"AA" as in AAron Edwards has been a servicable player for North .And just on his stats I see he got one hitout during the 2011 season- against the WCE!! Apparently they've the best ruck combo since the combo was first invented by the Colonel all those years ago.

So I'm suggesting Aaron is a big game ruckman!!

Or just maybe he stuggles against the best teams because the ball doesn't get into our fwd line very often and when it does it makes the Tangier's ( Morocco)train station look an orderly well-run enterprise.

 

[Twinkletoes]

No surprise that our forwards struggled when our mids were getting smashed against the top sides.

Edwards is still our best 3rd tall. Black will be the guy who replaces him, but thats a while away yet.

Close thread! That's it in a nutshell.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

So in short Arjen, am I correct that your thinking is that we should remove all players that will not be in our best 22 in 3 years time (except for Boomer and Petrie) for the overall developmental benefits of the team?

Yeah basically... (everyone will see it differently and I absolutely respect that) I would have thought that every year you can't win the flag is a development year in some form. Sure we have done the hard yards and are on an upswing, but our young players have taken longer to develop than young players at other clubs for whatever reason and with that firmly in mind, the only way to fast track this development is to throw them in the deep end and watch them swim. or Sink.

I honestly think (and maybe I'm deluded but then again maybe i'm not) that our kids are bloody good. Like potential world beaters. And if given the same opportunity as some of the players I have mentioned i believe they will prosper and we would improve as a team. Our profile as a club would improve and the future would look brighter.

I know it's only Dermie's opinion but he tipped us to finish 12th this year.... 12th.... Why would he do that if he thought we were any good?

I would pick my 22 with upside and future development in mind. Making the 8 and geting smashed would do nothing for our development. When we get there we need to be ready to explode.

The likes of McMillan, Wright, Atley, Black, Tarrant, Daw, Harper, Cunnington, Speight and C.Delaney are the ones who need game time. These blokes going from C/D graders through to B and potential A graders is what will make us a strong team moving forward.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Yeah basically... (everyone will see it differently and I absolutely respect that) I would have thought that every year you can't win the flag is a development year in some form. Sure we have done the hard yards and are on an upswing, but our young players have taken longer to develop than young players at other clubs for whatever reason and with that firmly in mind, the only way to fast track this development is to throw them in the deep end and watch them swim. or Sink.

I honestly think (and maybe I'm deluded but then again maybe i'm not) that our kids are bloody good. Like potential world beaters. And if given the same opportunity as some of the players I have mentioned i believe they will prosper and we would improve as a team. Our profile as a club would improve and the future would look brighter.

I know it's only Dermie's opinion but he tipped us to finish 12th this year.... 12th.... Why would he do that if he thought we were any good?

I would pick my 22 with upside and future development in mind. Making the 8 and geting smashed would do nothing for our development. When we get there we need to be ready to explode.

The likes of McMillan, Wright, Atley, Black, Tarrant, Daw, Speight and C.Delaney are the ones who need game time. These blokes going from C/D graders through to B and potential A graders is what will make us a strong team moving forward.

There is the argument that such an action will lead to poorer team performance due to the young tyros replacing those older guys not being physically or mentally capable of stepping into the role. Sure, they may be as effective, if not more effective, but generally speaking that is the exception rather than the rule. Poor performances and lack of on field leadership and experience can have long term detrimental effects on a team.

There is no argument that blokes like Edwards and Spud are not stars, but they do play important roles for the team. They act as lynchpins for the overall redevelopment of the 22, the pieces that the rest can be built around until they newbies are strong enough to stand on their own. Only when the new guys currently in the squad, (Cunners, JZ, Wright, Harper,JMac) have stood up and shown their worth when they get their opportunities will these guys be in line for replacement. For mine not enough of the youngsters have done that yet.

Funnily enough when that happens the older blokes might just look a whole lot better with a better and more mature team around them.

I reckon the team as a whole needs to take a big step in output this year before we can even consider moving guys like Edwards, McIntosh or Firrito on. The team relies too much on their experience and their leadership at the minute to simply remove them, ala Brady Rawlings circa 2010-2011. Lets revisit this in 12 months. We'll see which of those in your gun have been cut, or who have hung on despite themselves due to lack of team performance/squad development, or those who have performed very well.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

You answered your own question... Dermie said it.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Another thing to take into consideration is that all emerging teams have that spattering of experienced players. In the early 90's we had the likes of Matty Larkin and Ross Smith still doing their thing in 92-93, and even Ian Fairley, who was no superstar by any stretch of the imagination, stuck around long enough for his last kick to be the last goal in a winning grand final. These old heads, whilst not necessarily the best, can be bloody invaluable.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

The bloke has more premierships than our club. I'm willing to take a little notice of what comes out of his mouth.

Just because he looks like an idiot sometimes, doesn't mean he always talks poo.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

The bloke has more premierships than our club. I'm willing to take a little notice of what comes out of his mouth.

Just because he looks like an idiot sometimes, doesn't mean he always talks poo.

99.999999% of the time it is. Premierships are not and never have been a measure of intelligence.

The idiot that OCCASIONALLY speaks sense is Shane Crawford.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

There is the argument that such an action will lead to poorer team performance due to the young tyros replacing those older guys not being physically or mentally capable of stepping into the role. Sure, they may be as effective, if not more effective, but generally speaking that is the exception rather than the rule. Poor performances and lack of on field leadership and experience can have long term detrimental effects on a team.

There is no argument that blokes like Edwards and Spud are not stars, but they do play important roles for the team. They act as lynchpins for the overall redevelopment of the 22, the pieces that the rest can be built around until they newbies are strong enough to stand on their own. Only when the new guys currently in the squad, (Cunners, JZ, Wright, Harper,JMac) have stood up and shown their worth when they get their opportunities will these guys be in line for replacement. For mine not enough of the youngsters have done that yet.

Funnily enough when that happens the older blokes might just look a whole lot better with a better and more mature team around them.

I reckon the team as a whole needs to take a big step in output this year before we can even consider moving guys like Edwards, McIntosh or Firrito on. The team relies too much on their experience and their leadership at the minute to simply remove them, ala Brady Rawlings circa 2010-2011. Lets revisit this in 12 months. We'll see which of those in your gun have been cut, or who have hung on despite themselves due to lack of team performance/squad development, or those who have performed very well.

Agree with the Flossy reference... however.... he didn't make the same irresponsible mistakes as Firitto, Thomas and McMahon.

You can't have blokes who the young guys look up to costing us close games with undisciplined actions. Whilst they might be slightly better players, they make juvenile, season defining mistakes and while I do agree with some of your musings, the basic premise of your argument is tainted by the fact that they don't play like seasoned pro's ala Brady IMO.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I think you are being specifically harsh on McMahon. He is better than you rate him. Spud had a really poor year last year but before that was a very solid contributor. I for one am happy to give the guy the chance to show that he still has it.

As for LT, well, if you are going to carry a guy with deficiencies I'd rather it be a bloke who busts his arse and has hughe upside than a limited plodder. As long as LT plays like he did in the back half of 2011, chasing like a mad man, setting up goals etc. then I would play him. If those yips turn around then watch out. However, if he starts hanging his head and stops chasing he should be banished.

 

[DarwinRoo]

So lets tank this season then.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

I think you are being specifically harsh on McMahon. He is better than you rate him. Spud had a really poor year last year but before that was a very solid contributor. I for one am happy to give the guy the chance to show that he still has it.

Probably, but the last 3 times i've seen him live he was getting made to look ordinary by Milne and Nahas. Really slow, poor positioning and squib like. I have rated him but i've gone cold due to his inabilty to curb the influence of the best small forwards in the game. He simply can't keep up anymore. That is not opinion, that is fact.

As for LT... well if he marked the ball or kicked goals like he is paid to do he wouldn't have to bust a gut or tackle or chase or give away stupid free kicks.
He tries so hard to make up for repeated generic shyteness that we have started to see that as his primary weapon. The bloke is a small forward who is paid to take chances... chances he needs to take in order for us to play finals... chances that Harper has proved he will kick EVERY TIME.

No matter the wind, no matter the angle, no matter the pressure.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Probably, but the last 3 times i've seen him live he was getting made to look ordinary by Milne and Nahas. Really slow, poor positioning and squib like. I have rated him but i've gone cold due to his inabilty to curb the influence of the best small forwards in the game. He simply can't keep up anymore. That is not opinion, that is fact.

Keeping up anymore is not a fact. Speed has always been a concern with McMahon, but I guess it comes down to match ups then. We do need to find a shut down defender for the elite nippy small forwards but he is a good match up for many forwards/half forwards.

As for LT... well if he marked the ball or kicked goals like he is paid to do he wouldn't have to bust a gut or tackle or chase or give away stupid free kicks.
He tries so hard to make up for repeated generic shyteness that we have started to see that as his primary weapon. The bloke is a small forward who is paid to take chances... chances he needs to take in order for us to play finals... chances that Harper has proved he will kick EVERY TIME.

No matter the wind, no matter the angle, no matter the pressure.

I'd take LT's output over Harpers for 2011 any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Lindsay averaged 3 marks a game last year, Thought that was decent for a player his height tbh.

His goal kicking is the worry.

 

[R00StaR]

I think you are being specifically harsh on McMahon. He is better than you rate him. Spud had a really poor year last year but before that was a very solid contributor. I for one am happy to give the guy the chance to show that he still has it.

As for LT, well, if you are going to carry a guy with deficiencies I'd rather it be a bloke who busts his arse and has hughe upside than a limited plodder. As long as LT plays like he did in the back half of 2011, chasing like a mad man, setting up goals etc. then I would play him. If those yips turn around then watch out. However, if he starts hanging his head and stops chasing he should be banished.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on LT, he has an X-Factor we lack and need. I mustve missed the shot from 10m out people have spoken about, but the rest came off the boot pretty well. None were as bad as his shockers of last year. He can obviously do it, its a confidence thing with him. If he sorts out the yips he'll be a gun.

 

[Mav]

I'd take LT's output over Harpers for 2011 any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=1771&tid2=13&pid2=3472&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

Have a look at Harper v Thomas at the same age.

You really are missing ATG's point. Harper will be 10 times the player Thomas will be and deserves more game time than Thomas. AND Harper's not the only one.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Lindsay kicked 32 goals 14 in his second year. Hopefully Harper can match that.

 

[Mav]

Lindsay kicked 32 goals 14 in his second year. Hopefully Harper can match that.

if he plays every game plus a final I'm sure he'll do better!

 

[DarwinRoo]

Well wait and see and if he does then good on him.

 

[The Chiefton]

D-ROO ^^ what's happening with the bloke in your avatar? You reckon he'll get game time this year?

 

[DarwinRoo]

No and I think this year will be his last at North.