Podcast 17-5 fixture - Making the league more equal

[TexForPM]

Saw this on twitter, not sure if there are others threads regarding this. If there are please delete.

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I personally like the idea of 17 games, play each team once and move into a conference system.

Means
top teams - get a hard run home.
Middle teams - get a chance to play finals
Lower teams - reduce tanking


Would this make the league fairer?
Would this reduce the ridiculous amount of MCG games teams like Richmond and Collingwood get each year, giving them a huge edge going into finals.

Discuss.

 

[radiojake]

so when you get to the end of round 17 and 13th and 12th are seperated by % but it turns out the team that finished 12th had 9 home games while 13th only had 8 and thus the difference between having a crack at finals and being out of the race is determined by such an uneven outcome I think you'll have some people finding issues with the system very quickly

 

[1970crow]

Saw this on twitter, not sure if there are others threads regarding this. If there are please delete.

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I personally like the idea of 17 games, play each team once and move into a conference system.

Means
top teams - get a hard run home.
Middle teams - get a chance to play finals
Lower teams - reduce tanking


Would this make the league fairer?
Would this reduce the ridiculous amount of MCG games teams like Richmond and Collingwood get each year, giving them a huge edge going into finals.

Discuss.

Surely being 7th after 17 rounds is worth at least 3 more wins than being 6th. Utterly stupid idea.

 

[Cap]

This kind of talk is always over shadowed by how inequitable the AFL is and how spineless they are as an organisation

If they are going to do this, why not just setup the conferences before the season starts.

You could do a hat draw like the world cup, do it geographically, do them on a rotation of say 5 years.

But they won't because they need to pander to TV stations and VFL clubs, so we'll get a poorly designed stop gap.

 

[Rabman]

Why is it when the Fixture has been uneven for the last 33 years, its the last 2-3 years that everyone has all of a sudden have a massive issue.

 

[CH Jazz]

Don’t like it.

Strongly feel that the league must have everyone play each other once or twice and be done with it. Can’t get more equitable than that.

If the answer is to play ever each other once and alternating home and away each year, then toss in two more teams for a 20 team comp and have 19 home and away rounds and finals. Pretty simple really.

If the answer of to play each other twice per season it’s a bit harder. Probably need to cut a few team (Saints and North obvious candidates), piss off preseason games, piss off bye rounds and make lists bigger. 16 team comp means 30 home and away rounds. Play it over 26ish weeks and bigger lists allows for clubs to manage resting players. Also don’t need to be stuck in this ‘rounds’ notion. Just like the EPL it’s ok for teams to have played a different amount of games at any point in time.

Anything other than one of the above is a garbage solution and grossly inequitable. Easily my biggest gripe with the AFL. Can’t think of a more compromised professional sport in the world due to sheer stubbornness in maintaining status quo.

 

[TexForPM]

Surely being 7th after 17 rounds is worth at least 3 more wins than being 6th. Utterly stupid idea.

What do you mean?

Comp is already unfair.

Play every team 1 time - random or rotates based on last year's home or away.

I could take or leave the conference part but 17 games doesn't feel like it's enough. Or do something different with finals

 

[TexForPM]

Don’t like it.

Strongly feel that the league must have everyone play each other once or twice and be done with it. Can’t get more equitable than that.

If the answer is to play ever each other once and alternating home and away each year, then toss in two more teams for a 20 team comp and have 19 home and away rounds and finals. Pretty simple really.

If the answer of to play each other twice per season it’s a bit harder. Probably need to cut a few team (Saints and North obvious candidates), piss off preseason games, piss off bye rounds and make lists bigger. 16 team comp means 30 home and away rounds. Play it over 26ish weeks and bigger lists allows for clubs to manage resting players. Also don’t need to be stuck in this ‘rounds’ notion. Just like the EPL it’s ok for teams to have played a different amount of games at any point in time.

Anything other than one of the above is a garbage solution and grossly inequitable. Easily my biggest gripe with the AFL. Can’t think of a more compromised professional sport in the world due to sheer stubbornness in maintaining status quo.

It's compromised already.
I agree 36 games would be better but won't happen.

Maybe 17 with a playoff for 9th and 10th

 

[1970crow]

This kind of talk is always over shadowed by how inequitable the AFL is and how spineless they are as an organisation

If they are going to do this, why not just setup the conferences before the season starts.

You could do a hat draw like the world cup, do it geographically, do them on a rotation of say 5 years.

But they won't because they need to pander to TV stations and VFL clubs, so we'll get a poorly designed stop gap.

I like the idea of using the first 17 games to determine the last few. But it needs to be used to ensure the double ups are as even across all 18 teams as possible. I don’t like the idea of conferences at all. Any changes should be made to further even up the competition, not risk further lopsided draws.

 

[TexForPM]

Why is it when the Fixture has been uneven for the last 33 years, its the last 2-3 years that everyone has all of a sudden have a massive issue.

There's more noise about changing it.
AFL want an American style conference.

Would be best to play everyone twice but it's a lot of games.

 

[1970crow]

What do you mean?

Comp is already unfair.

Play every team 1 time - random or rotates based on last year's home or away.

I could take or leave the conference part but 17 games doesn't feel like it's enough. Or do something different with finals

Isn’t the proposal that after 17 rounds the league is split into 3 groups, 1-6, 7-12 and 13-18. Each group then plays each in their group. So 6 gets to play 5 teams above them while 7 plays the 5 below. Pretty big advantage for 7th over 6th especially when they may only be separated by %.

 

[Rabman]

There's more noise about changing it.
AFL want an American style conference.

Would be best to play everyone twice but it's a lot of games.

Once you go past 14 teams you can't really have a fair fixture. The season either becomes to short or to long to keep it even.

 

[TexForPM]

Isn’t the proposal that after 17 rounds the league is split into 3 groups, 1-6, 7-12 and 13-18. Each group then plays each in their group. So 6 gets to play 5 teams above them while 7 plays the 5 below. Pretty big advantage for 7th over 6th especially when they may only be separated by %.

Yep.

But for example Richmond played 11 games straight at the MCG. This year or last I can't remember.

What's a bigger advantage.

Unless it's only 17 games I can't see how it's even either way you look at it.

If they did conferences after round 17 it would need to change finals too.

 

[1970crow]

It's compromised already.
I agree 36 games would be better but won't happen.

Maybe 17 with a playoff for 9th and 10th

how about pissing off the preseason, add 3 games and after 17 rounds the odds play each other again and the evens do the same. They’ll never go to just 17 rounds, too much TV money at stake. I think more double ups should reduce the average variance between difficulty of fixtures.

 

[TexForPM]

how about pissing off the preseason, add 3 games and after 17 rounds the odds play each other again and the evens do the same. They’ll never go to just 17 rounds, too much TV money at stake. I think more double ups should reduce the average variance between difficulty of fixtures.

Something needs to change. Richmond and pies get way too many games at home.

 

[1970crow]

Yep.

But for example Richmond played 11 games straight at the MCG. This year or last I can't remember.

What's a bigger advantage.

Unless it's only 17 games I can't see how it's even either way you look at it.

If they did conferences after round 17 it would need to change finals too.

There are already inherent inequities, the proposal isn’t addressing them. We’re talking about only the conference split after round 17 and the ramifications of that change. 6th will be stopped dead in their tracks playing the top 5 teams as their double ups whilst 7 gets an armchair ride past them playing teams sitting 8-12. That’s making the fixture less equitable than it is now.

You want Richmond’s MCG games split, sure, makes sense, but it’s nothing to do with this particular AFL brain fart.

 

[Cap]

There's more noise about changing it.
AFL want an American style conference.

Would be best to play everyone twice but it's a lot of games.

But is that a bad thing? Just becuase they got to the problem first doesn't mean we should discard what they've done.

I like the conference system becuase you know who you're playing from round 1. No surprises

Our fixture is never going to be fair, but at least make it consistent. 4 conferences of 6, each team plays each other twice and everyone else once.

If your worried about lopsided conferences, introduce the wildcard, being the best two teams outside the top 6 make the final 8.

Not perfect, but better than the AFLs idea.

Cutting the competition into 4 groups of 6 is the hardest part.

 

[glengowan]

If they want the season to go for as long as it does and make it fair and even then:

Minor Round: 17 Games against each opponent (8 Home, 8 Away, 1 Neutral against home state team)
Finals: 9 Weeks (QF/SF/GF) , best of 3 knockout finals at each stage - highest place team hosts games 1 & 3 (Quarter Finals; 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5
> Semi Finals; highest placed winner vs lowest placed winner, 2nd highest placed winner vs 3rd highest placed winner > Grand Finals with game 2 at MCG if non-MCG tenant highest placed winner)

 

[DroppingTheBall]

That does mean 10 of the 18 clubs are bystanders for 9 rounds. And those 9 rounds are best-of-3, so will probably take at least 17 weeks if not 27 weeks.

I can't see that working.

[edit: glengowan originally wrote "9 rounds best of 3", hence my comment. He has since then edited his post to say "9 weeks", without making it clear where he changed it, which now makes my comment look confusing.]

 

[jackster83]

Why is it when the Fixture has been uneven for the last 33 years, its the last 2-3 years that everyone has all of a sudden have a massive issue.

The double up games have become a bigger issue since the competition expanded to 18 clubs, with one of the newcomers being a complete basket case and a percentage boosting win for whoever plays them.

 

[Rabman]

The double up games have become a bigger issue since the competition expanded to 18 clubs, with one of the newcomers being a complete basket case and a percentage boosting win for whoever plays them.

Which no Club more than us has benefited the most from.

 

[Mileratkinsshow]

Something needs to change. Richmond and pies get way too many games at home.

I reckon that’s the best and most equitable suggestion I’ve heard. Well done! A very simple way to organise the second part of the season. The second part of the season (odds and evens) is a bit like how with tennis tournaments you have 2 halves of the drawer with the better players evenly distributed. There is an inherent equity about that situation. It makes it most likely that the better teams progress - which is in AFL’s best interest dor strong final series.
You could alternate home games between the two clubs eg 2020 crows play GFC at Geelong and at AO the next year, and then flip a coin to see who plays home first for 2022 /3 - so clubs aren’t locked into playing a combo of the same strong clubs away every second year if the draw fell badly for them- imagine the following clubs all away next year - Tigers- pies - cats - eagles - dogs - etc.
Also you would need some equitable way to chose who plays at home and away for the last 8 games before finals too. (Ie the odds and evens phase).
Does anyone know whether this has ever been looked at / discussed by the AFL?
Much better than the 3 conferences system that has been suggested before imho.


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[glengowan]

That does mean 10 of the 18 clubs are bystanders for 9 rounds. And those 9 rounds are best-of-3, so will probably take at least 17 weeks if not 27 weeks.

I can't see that working.

Sorry, should say 3 rounds, best of 3, so 9 weeks.

 

[TexForPM]

I reckon that’s the best and most equitable suggestion I’ve heard. Well done! A very simple way to organise the second part of the season. The second part of the season (odds and evens) is a bit like how with tennis tournaments you have 2 halves of the drawer with the better players evenly distributed. There is an inherent equity about that situation. It makes it most likely that the better teams progress - which is in AFL’s best interest dor strong final series.
You could alternate home games between the two clubs eg 2020 crows play GFC at Geelong and at AO the next year, and then flip a coin to see who plays home first for 2022 /3 - so clubs aren’t locked into playing a combo of the same strong clubs away every second year if the draw fell badly for them- imagine the following clubs all away next year - Tigers- pies - cats - eagles - dogs - etc.
Also you would need some equitable way to chose who plays at home and away for the last 8 games before finals too. (Ie the odds and evens phase).
Does anyone know whether this has ever been looked at / discussed by the AFL?
Much better than the 3 conferences system that has been suggested before imho.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Think it was 1970crow who suggested the odds and evens after the season proper.

Happy to start with conferences. There's no randomness, AFL schedules based on dollars, not on what's fair.

That must change.

 

[SugarShane]

Why is it when the Fixture has been uneven for the last 33 years, its the last 2-3 years that everyone has all of a sudden have a massive issue.

Uhh, no it's not. It's been a discussion for years. The equalised double ups were brought in 4 years ago, and they were already considered way overdue back then.

Also it being unfair for 33 years isn't much of a reason to not fix it now. Climate Change has been an issue for decades too, so why bother trying to fix it now eh?