20 year Pokies licenses for 5 AFL Clubs

[Luv_our_club]

Pretty happy that my club is working towards getting rid of pokies, happy to leave them to the family clubs like Hawthorn

April 2018
"The Demons on Wednesday announced the Leighoak Club, with 92 poker machines, had been sold to Moonee Valley Racing Club effective from July 31. The club will still be backed by 88 machines at the Bentleigh Club until August 2022, when those gaming entitlements end"


I commend the MFC for distancing itself from pokies revenue, and being pragmatic about the need for a time tabled exist strategy.

But perhaps wait until 2022 before virtue signaling and shaming others like a clean skin. In fact, don't bother doing it then either.

 

[Jade]

It's not, in my view, but this does not invalidate the original topic creator's argument.

Why does Essendon still need pokies?

Because we don’t yet have a viable way to replace that revenue?

Believe me, I’d like to be rid of them - but at the same time I live in the real world.

 

[Forward Press]

Noone ever lost money gambling before poker machines I guess?

The premise is that it's far easier to lose money with pokies and that they require zero skill whatsoever.

April 2018
"The Demons on Wednesday announced the Leighoak Club, with 92 poker machines, had been sold to Moonee Valley Racing Club effective from July 31. The club will still be backed by 88 machines at the Bentleigh Club until August 2022, when those gaming entitlements end"


I commend the MFC for distancing itself from pokies revenue, and being pragmatic about the need for a time tabled exist strategy.

But perhaps wait until 2022 before virtue signaling and shaming others like a clean skin. In fact, don't bother doing it then either.

At least they are taking steps to remove them, I understand weaning yourself off a massive income stream can take years. Are Hawthorn doing anything similar to what Melbourne are doing, though?

 

[Mavs13]

Do people realise that pokies employee 1,000's of people.

 

[Forward Press]

Because we don’t yet have a viable way to replace that revenue?

Believe me, I’d like to be rid of them - but at the same time I live in the real world.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that it's legal and I understand it's a lot of money, but we can always find alternatives.

F1 managed to wean itself off tobacco companies being major sponsors of every team, for example.

In the end, it's whether there is enough of the political will from the AFL to get it done. Same reason why our Federal and some State governments are struggling to reduce their dependency on gambling revenue.

 

[Luv_our_club]

At least they are taking steps to remove them, I understand weaning yourself off a massive income stream can take years. Are Hawthorn doing anything similar to what Melbourne are doing, though?

Perhaps re-read my post.... and then get back to me and you can identify exactly how i criticised the MFC?????

Perhaps you will pay closer attention to the fact that i only commended them.

 

[Forward Press]

Perhaps re-read my post.... and then get back to me and you can identify exactly how i criticised the MFC?????

Perhaps you will pay closer attention to the fact that i only commended them.

Please, you are berating a Melbourne fan for 'virtue signalling' because it isn't 2022 yet in your very last line.

 

[Shadow89]

Noone ever lost money gambling before poker machines I guess?

Well what a solid response. Completely addressed everything I said. Typical 'me me me' type of person.

 

[Shadow89]

Do people realise that pokies employee 1,000's of people.

They also un-employ tens of thousands more. Doesn't really balance out lol.

 

[Forward Press]

They also un-employ tens of thousands more. Doesn't really balance out lol.

I do have to admit a strong bias here, my parents split up and both lost their jobs because of dad's gambling habits.

So it's a touchy subject for me when people suggest it's all about self control and that gambling isn't that big of a deal.

 

[markr]

If the government bans poker machines I won't complain, but while they are legal I'm fine with the club making money from them. If we ditched them all that would happen is those machines would be taken over by someone else and nobody would be better off except the new operator. Look at the Melbourne situation, 92 poker machines haven't disappeared, they just got sold to someone else, the "battlers" aren't better off if their money is going to Moonee Valley Race Club instead of Melbourne Footy Club.

 

[Shadow89]

I do have to admit a strong bias here, my parents split up and both lost their jobs because of dad's gambling habits.

So it's a touchy subject for me when people suggest it's all about self control and that gambling isn't that big of a deal.

Same here. My mother didn't feed me and it exacerbated her mental health issues. We also looked after a friend of hers who was on over half a mil a year and gambled it all alway. Lost his family, lost his job, lost everything. He sorted it out later on in life, but self-control is only a minute part of the puzzle.

 

[Hawkk]

The premise is that it's far easier to lose money with pokies and that they require zero skill whatsoever.



At least they are taking steps to remove them, I understand weaning yourself off a massive income stream can take years. Are Hawthorn doing anything similar to what Melbourne are doing, though?

I guess it’s the price Hawthorn pays for being financially independent from the AFL. Melbourne like 75 per cent of the other clubs are financially reliant on the AFL for survival

And let’s call a spade a spade if Melbourne really were operating for good they wouldn’t be selling the machines to another operator (effectively profiteering off the licence) they would be just removing the machines from operation.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Ideally, pokies get banned.
But as they’re not
I’d much rather football clubs in the business than the alternative.

Footy clubs - non-profit - reinvest money in local communities
Companies like Woolworths - profit - keep money and no reinvestment.

 

[Hawkk]

So you don't know how much profit is involved in pokies but it's one of the most evil things in the world and even one should be enraged with these 5 clubs?

This. Remove the pokies revenue and Hawthorn might not be in a position to pay the equalisation taxes that go into proping North up.

It would be remiss not to mention that the only reason why north bailed on pokies is because they wouldn’t make a dollar on them (sound familiar?)

They also take money from alcohol and gambling sponsorship.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

When I started to take my kids (5, 7 and 9) to the football and they were quoting live odds from the big screen, it was pretty obvious that something was seriously wrong with the AFL and Australian culture to allow this to happen

You must walk down the street blindfolded.

 

[Forward Press]

I guess it’s the price Hawthorn pays for being financially independent from the AFL. Melbourne like 75 per cent of the other clubs are financially reliant on the AFL for survival

And let’s call a spade a spade if Melbourne really were operating for good they wouldn’t be selling the machines to another operator (effectively profiteering off the licence) they would be just removing the machines from operation.

Of course, I know they aren't running over the machines with a steamroller but baby steps.

Money is important and pokies are legal but in the end I believe we have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[beta_condition]

No idea but it is just another pointer that there are too many clubs in Melbourne in what is meant to be the elite national competition.

There is but that's not the fault of the clubs, do what you can to survive long as it's legal.

 

[Forward Press]

This. Remove the pokies revenue and Hawthorn might not be in a position to pay the equalisation taxes that go into proping North up.

It would be remiss not to mention that the only reason why north bailed on pokies is because they wouldn’t make a dollar on them (sound familiar?)

They also take money from alcohol and gambling sponsorship.

Again, the 'what about it'isms shouldn't really play into it.

The AFL was sponsored by tobacco companies - legally - along with cricket, F1 etc and then the social stigma grew so much that they no longer sponsor any major sport. Tobacco is still legal too.

I don't see why people arguing for clubs to transition away from pokies must necessarily be lumped into the 'no alcohol/fast food/unhealthy pursuit' basket.

 

[Atomboy]

Do people realise that pokies employee 1,000's of people.

So do methlabs I guess....

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I do have to admit a strong bias here, my parents split up and both lost their jobs because of dad's gambling habits.

So it's a touchy subject for me when people suggest it's all about self control and that gambling isn't that big of a deal.

I have lost a nephew to Gambling and drugs and hear where you are coming from. But with time I have also realised that no one made my Nephew gamble or take drugs. It was his decision and it was his pathway to follow. Unfortunatley for so many that pathway is very hard to get off and therein lies the problem. Ultimately though he chose the pathway.

Now whether or not an AFL club should have pokies is neither here or there to me, by no AFL club having them it will have zero impact on whether or not problem gamblers still gamble, and I don't see it will have any effect either on whether people start gambling or not. It is not far to Crown casino for the ones who want to gamble. Someone else just takes them on.

They are destructive pathways unfortunately but I find it a bit funny throwing stones at an AFL club when the League itself profits from Gambling, the governments love the gambling profits. It aint going anywhere ever and all we can really do is try and educate people on it. We can never remove the temptation though of it being pretty much everywhere we look.

 

[HairyO]

Well what a solid response. Completely addressed everything I said. Typical 'me me me' type of person.

Which bit was wrong?

Did domestic violence only start when poker machines were invented?

No gambling addictions before poker machines?

Which causes more issues in society: poker machines or alcohol?

Is there a long list of things you want banned? Or just poker machines?

BTW is it all poker machines or just the ones owned by football clubs?

Will those wanting the bans happily pay extra tax to make up for the $6 billion or $7 billion they raise each year around the country?

 

[Bostonian]

People are truly putting their head in the sand with pokies and engaging in whataboutism here.

Firstly, Pokies is more addictive and damaging than other harmful things in society. It's effectively combining the addictive nature of gambling, with the addictive nature of bright flashing lights like video games into one even more addictive thing
Secondly, club ownership of pokies is more direct than other forms of harmful activities.
Thirdly, we're not talking about other things. Claiming that pokies is okay because something else is harmful in society is basically cheating in an argument. Address the problem at hand here.

Well that's a complete and utter fabrication if ever there was one.

Alcoholism is far more rife in our society than gambling addictions.

Alcohol leads to far FAR more violence, physical harm and deaths. Not to mention the actual impact it has on the health system.

And yet pokies are more damaging? GTFOH.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Saying it is rigged to pay out less is misleading, it is random with the edge in the favour of the house, no different to roulette or tossing a coin. If you are specifically singling out electronic machines as rigged in contrast to a manual game like roulette then you don't understand probability and randomness.

it depends on the design of the machine. software alone can't generate random numbers so machines that use only software are not actually random and require a 'seed' to generate their outcomes. this is why it's been possible to take advantage of some machines:

Recognizing those patterns would require remarkable effort. Slot machine outcomes are controlled by programs called pseudorandom number generators that produce baffling results by design. Government regulators, such as the Missouri Gaming Commission, vet the integrity of each algorithm before casinos can deploy it.

But as the “pseudo” in the name suggests, the numbers aren't truly random. Because human beings create them using coded instructions, PRNGs can't help but be a bit deterministic. (A true random number generator must be rooted in a phenomenon that is not manmade, such as radioactive decay.) PRNGs take an initial number, known as a seed, and then mash it together with various hidden and shifting inputs—the time from a machine’s internal clock, for example—in order to produce a result that appears impossible to forecast. But if hackers can identify the various ingredients in that mathematical stew, they can potentially predict a PRNG’s output. That process of reverse engineering becomes much easier, of course, when a hacker has physical access to a slot machine’s innards.

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/russians-engineer-brilliant-slot-machine-cheat-casinos-no-fix/

 

[Bunk Moreland]

They also un-employ tens of thousands more. Doesn't really balance out lol.

Um





What?