2004 Draft Revisited (top 20)

[ben_cats_fan]

people who dont rate franklin should just give up and concede the guy is going to be a bloody legend of the game. shit hes 21 and kicked 70 odd goals! the only thing that can stop franklin is the 3 strikes rule.

Read up. Nobody is doubting Franklins talent. Be crazy to do so. And isn't calling him a legend of the game a bit much? It's a great disservice to your Voss's & Buckley's, Carey's & Lockett's, Crawford's & Harvey's. He might get there, but not at this point in time

 

[_RT_]

And I think therein lies his point. He personally believes that with more consistency & experience, Lance Franklin most probably be the best out of the 2004 class. But what it seems he's trying to say is that AT THIS POINT IN TIME, he would take someone with the consistency week in, week out, knowing exactly what player x would provide.

Egan does that. Nobody is questioning that at all, which is a sign that it is a commonly held belief. I KNOW Franklin WILL be a better player than Egan. I wish he was at the cats. But at this stage, is it such a bad thing that in a democratic society, we all have our own beliefs and who we would prefer putting on the jumper of our favourite clubs, based on what one deems to be the definition of consistency?

I can think of 15 other clubs that would prefer Lance Franklin on their team, rather than against them. And I can guarantee you the same can be said for Matt Egan. But at the end of the day, what is so wrong with disagreeing with the general consensus that warrants people being called "fuken idiots" for believing what they believe?

Thanks for getting what I am saying unfortunately Hawthorn bias prevents them from seeing it.

I never said that Franklin was a dud, nor did I say that what he achieved this year was poor, just that if he was a more consistent performer he would be a clear standout from that draft. What they are also missing is that Franklin was a top 5 pick and therefore is expected to be a star. The fact that he exploded onto the seen after 3 years should be commended. Egan was taken at mid 50's (something that Hawks fans continually overlook) and barring injury would have been an AA Premiership winning CHB, you don't get that from playing a handful of great games and a few decent ones. Same with Cloke you don't win a Copeland Trophy from being an inconsistent footballer.

As you say Franklin will be better than Cloke and Egan down the track but right now if I was taking these players again I would rather have the players I know that will give me roughly the same out put every week rather than someone who at present will kick 9 goals one week then go missing the next 3. However, revisit this topic in 12 months time after Franklin develops the consistency I want to see and the order could/would be totally different.

 

[08yearofthetiger]

Mine
6. Angus Monfries - super competitive, great work ethic, future leader
8. Brett Deledio - has the ability to be anything but hasnt impressed me yet

Are you honestly saying that monfries has done better than Deledio in his career so far
Deledio>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><Monfries

 

[ben_cats_fan]

Egan was taken at mid 50's (something that Hawks fans continually overlook) and barring injury would have been an AA Premiership winning CHB, you don't get that from playing a handful of great games and a few decent ones. Same with Cloke you don't win a Copeland Trophy from being an inconsistent footballer.

He was however, a mature age draftee. But on the flip side, he was a convert from Tennis at a very late age!

 

[kirbatron]

Read up. Nobody is doubting Franklins talent. Be crazy to do so. And isn't calling him a legend of the game a bit much? It's a great disservice to your Voss's & Buckley's, Carey's & Lockett's, Crawford's & Harvey's. He might get there, but not at this point in time

he said he was going to be, not that he's there yet... still a bit much tho.

his post may have been edited*

If Buddy becomes 'consistent' as Realistic tiger has pointed out, he will not only be the number 1 player in the league but if he can sustain that for 6+ years he will probably win HFC 3 flags.

People's expectations of Buddy are 10% higher than all other players. It is because of this reason 'potential' that you couldnt go past picking him no 1.

 

[richcogs]

Dead set the most sure thing in the world is that if this draft was redone today Franklin would be first picked up, one guy had him at 4

 

[matey]

Dead set the most sure thing in the world is that if this draft was redone today Franklin would be first picked up, one guy had him at 4

And the Hawks were extremely lucky to get him. Top 5 draft picks are generally classy youngsters who turn out to be handy AFL players but there is still an element of luck involved in getting the best one in the crop.

 

[cs61]

Thanks for getting what I am saying unfortunately Hawthorn bias prevents them from seeing it.

ha!

I never said that Franklin was a dud, nor did I say that what he achieved this year was poor, just that if he was a more consistent performer he would be a clear standout from that draft.

He is a standout, that is the point. He's already one of the best in the comp in is position, not his draft.

What they are also missing is that Franklin was a top 5 pick and therefore is expected to be a star. The fact that he exploded onto the seen after 3 years should be commended. Egan was taken at mid 50's (something that Hawks fans continually overlook) and barring injury would have been an AA Premiership winning CHB, you don't get that from playing a handful of great games and a few decent ones. Same with Cloke you don't win a Copeland Trophy from being an inconsistent footballer.

What are you talking bout? What has their selection go to with anything. I guarantee no one 'expected' franklin to achieve what he has already or he'd be playing for the Tigers right now. Those two players are exceptional, no doubt about it, but I stand that Franklin is the standout from the draft, no matter how you try and word it.

As you say Franklin will be better than Cloke and Egan down the track but right now if I was taking these players again I would rather have the players I know that will give me roughly the same out put every week rather than someone who at present will kick 9 goals one week then go missing the next 3. However, revisit this topic in 12 months time after Franklin develops the consistency I want to see and the order could/would be totally different.

I'd prefer the best player, however you word it.

 

[cs61]

This is a whole other issue.

The key point being addressed here with regard to Franklin is the silly 'inconsistent' label, which has been shown to be a nonsense both in terms of under 23 year old KPP forwards historically, and in line with high level Key forward output in the current day (hence Franklin's 2007 output being almost identical to Brown & Pavlich - both of whom are 26 year old club captains, in their prime, and widely viewed as the best players at their respective clubs and top five players in the overall competition).

I think this is poignant.

He's already competiting with the best in the league in terms of output, let alone his draft.

 

[juddy_Like]

Buddy should learn to develop some 'wanting to go home syndrome'. lol

 

[matey]

Buddy should learn to develop some 'wanting to go home syndrome'. lol

Now with Judd gone don't think there are any players Hawks would trade him for. Not having a go at the Coasters list as they still have some awesome players its just that the Hawks would not trade him for any player from any club.

Have heard from a number of sources that Buddy's best mates are Roughy/Lewis and sometimes team bonding and mateship keep teams together to the extent of accepting below market value salaries unlike the Judd situation going to the blues for $1mil a year. He moved for family reasons but surely clubs would have been bidding above market value to lure him which would have been one of his deciding factors as he has no loyalities/connection to any of the Melbourne clubs.

 

[Obelix]

Franklin at one for mine, pretty comfortably. If any of them was up for trade how much would you have to give up for them - then you've got your order.

Based purely on performances I'd have Thursfield in the top 5 and well ahead of the likes of Deledio and Lewis (who I rate btw - not knocking 'em). Under pressure he's literally single-handedly carried an undermanned defensive unit that was leaking an inside-50 every twenty seconds and rarely lost a match-up. To me that counts a lot more.

But on the trade table - is a tight-checking full-back (who we're starting to find can actually rebound a fair bit when he wants to) going to cost more than a supremely gifted... well what the hell is Deledio anyway, he can play anywhere, and a super-tough, consistent ball-winner. Probably not.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Tambling ahead of Lewis. Come on...

 

[ben_cats_fan]

Those two players are exceptional, no doubt about it, but I stand that Franklin is the standout from the draft, no matter how you try and word it.

And you are entitled to have that opinion. Just as everyone else is entitled to have their opinion. But at the end of the day, we all should just agree to disagree!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Tambling ahead of Lewis???? WTF?

Lewis is the best performed midfielder from the entire 2004 draft, and Tambling is ridiculed constantly for being a draft blunder.

Seriously, having Lewis below Tambling taints your entire post.

 

[Lynch takes a mark]

I think the only way to settle this is to have a Big Footy 2004 Phantom draft revisited

somebody make a new thread with the nominations for the top 20 picks and work out all of the details

 

[Heisenberg_]

lets just cut the crap, if it was help tomorow it would be Franklin at 1, Deledio 2 and then anybodies guess

 

[tiger trooper]

Buddy is number 1 without a doubt.

I do agree that Egan has probably had the best year he will have in a couple of years

BUT what happens if Deledio has a superstar year and really silences his critiques while cloke or Buddy (wood still be number 1 IMO). WOuld he be number 1?

Wat if the Tambling (dont really rate him) had an AA year?

WOuld he climb up the ladder to 4?

 

[lids2004roar]

lets just cut the crap, if it was help tomorow it would be Franklin at 1, Deledio 2 and then anybodies guess

Spot on, great post.

 

[matey]

Spot on, great post.

Delidio has some fantastic attributes in terms of pace and skill. However what has he done to make him better than Lewis. He won the best first year player compared to a 20 yo who in 2007 was up there in the most possessions in the entire comp. Some saying that Tambling is better than Lewis is ridiculous. There is a strong case that Lewis has done more than Delidio and will be better as he has the old fashion mongrel in him, has improved his tank and has skill to be a classy onballer. Oh no not another draft blunder. Delidio will still be good though.

 

[ReturnOfTheKing]

Pick 74 * Daniel Pratt

Buddy is clear #1

Griffen, Pearce, Smith & Roughead in no clear order rounding out top 5.

 

[ToroHombre]

Heres my top 20:
1. Lance Franklin
2: Matthew Egan
3: Brett Deledio
4: Danyle Pearce
5: Travis Cloke
6: Jordan Lewis
7: Jesse Smith
8: Jarryd Roughead
9: Ryan Griffen
10: Chris Knights
11: Dale Morris
12: Will Thursfield
13: Clinton Young
14: Mastur Bate
15: Richard Tambling
16: Matt Rosa
17: Nathan Van Berlo
18: Angus Monfries
19: Michael Newton
20: Justin Sherman

 

[SS_Fury]

some of you guys are rating Rosa and Van Berlo as hacks...these kids can play....dale morris, thursfield above these 2 are a joke

Buddy 1, Deledio 2, Cloke 3

 

[tiger trooper]

Heres my top 20:
1. Lance Franklin
2: Matthew Egan
3: Brett Deledio
4: Danyle Pearce
5: Travis Cloke
6: Jordan Lewis
7: Jesse Smith
8: Jarryd Roughead
9: Ryan Griffen
10: Chris Knights
11: Dale Morris
12: Will Thursfield
13: Clinton Young
14: Mastur Bate
15: Richard Tambling
16: Matt Rosa
17: Nathan Van Berlo
18: Angus Monfries
19: Michael Newton
20: Justin Sherman

definitely need to be higher

 

[Phaze Away]

Pick 74 * Daniel Pratt

Gibson in the rookie draft as well