2004 Draft Revisited (top 20)

[davemills]

This is the problem with most Tigers supporters, To move ahead Tigers you really have to be honest with your playing list, coach and recruiting.

Judging by performance to date only and not on 'what they should have done given their draft position', Tambling has been ok. He has had some exceptional quarters and drifted significantly in and out of games.

The simple fact is he is still maturing as a person and a player, as are all the boys from the 04 class.

Towards the end of '07 he appeared to take a big step towards being consistent and appeared to put more effort in on the defensive side. This coming year is the first anyone should 'expect' anything out of him at all if they are being the least bit fair.

Also, there are many players that will contribute more to a good side than a bad side. I suspect that Tambling will be much better in a good side. So as the tiges improve..... Watch out !!

As for where he fits in the top 20 from the 04 draft, which is what this thread is about, I can't place him accuratley as I don't know the other teams players as well as the Tiges. An obvious guess would be place him more towards the 20th spot than the 10th, but if you adjust for potential then he could well be top 10, maybe top 5.

The one thing I can say is that after 08 there will be a VERY big change in that list and it wouldn't surprise me if the 5 Richmond players listed by Cogs are in most people's top 20 lists, even non tiges supporters. I doubt Polo will be Top 20, but he should be close.

The sleeping tiger is awakening.

 

[Embers]

From a Eagles point of view LeCras is so much better then Rosa it isnt funny really. LeCras bagged 36 goals 19 in 15 games from the forward pocket position. If he played all games last year he would of bagged 50+ in really his debut season in that position (6 games before last year). In the WAFL he would net 30+ possessions and 6+ goals on a pretty regular basis at one stage. Will be a VERY good player.

Can play midfield too even though you havnt seen it yet at AFL level

 

[ben_cats_fan]

1. Egan (pick 62)- Should be an AA with a premiership medal except for injury.
2. Cloke (F/S 39) - Rate him more valuable that Franklin but only just IMO is a more consistent player than Buddy
3. Buddy (5) - freak footballer but still prone to going missing when the Hawks need him most.
4. Deledio (1) - struggle being one of the few top liners in an ordinary Richmond side, hopefully will get some relief with others coming on.
5. Lewis (7) - breakout season in 07, still have concerns about a lack of discipline.
6. J.W. Smith (F/S 42)- player who plays like a veteran slotted in nicely at the Roos.
7. Griffen (3) - forgotten about player because of long term injury in 07, but a clear candidate for the 200 game club.
8. Pearce (R pick 16)- not bad for a kid overlooked until the end of the first round of the rookie draft. Also a Rising Star winner.
9. Bate (13)- quality kid who seems to have a red hot go everytime I watch the Dees play.
10. Sherman (45) - another player who seems to have been overlooked, may have struggled a little this year due to injury but a classy player.
11. Thursfield (R 1)- skinny kid who plays in one of the worse defences in the AFL and performed well despite coming back from a terrible knee reco. Could well be Richmonds next 200 game FB.
12. Roughead (2)- slides from his original position but does not mean he is a poor player. Was tipped as a Top 5 selection in the draft originally just others have past him by.
13. Knights (56) - another player overlooked a few times before being taken has played some good football in a good side.
14. Rosa (29) - forced his way into the Eagles side and another who has played well in a good side.
15. Wood (18) - still the best ruckman taken in the 04 draft as witnessed by the Pies giving up a first round pick this year to get him. Will be a very good player for a long time to come.
16. Monfries (14) - starting to come of age at Essendon, now with older players moving on needs to step up and become a leader.
17. Van Berlo (24)- don't recall seeing his name on any of the other lists but surely worth a spot.
18. Tambling (4) - may surprise that a Richmond fan has him this low but Tambling is still very inconsistent and to get back to his pre draft rating really needs to deliver on his promise.
19. Williams (6) - not a bad player for a Rugby convert. Looked good in limited games this year and should continue to improve in the next 2-3 years.
20. Morris (R 19) - solid player who can shut opponents out of games completely.

IMHO, that's the best post so far, especially from a "what the player has already done" perspective. How you can claim Buddy Franklin, Brett Deledio etc. has done more than Matthew Egan is beyond me!

Also good to see Ryan Griffen, Matthew Bate & Justin Sherman in the top 10. I couldn't argue with this order.

 

[jesterwester]

Can play midfield too even though you havnt seen it yet at AFL level

I think the game against port was the first where he really stepped up into the midfield.
Rosa is a gun, just needs to realise he can be more than the link man. I think the game against the kangas last year when he kicked those two long running goals showed what he can do.
In terms of lecras being in front, i'm not so sure. This year Lecras fought his way in, but in a side that doesn't have the greatest forward line potency. Rosa got a regular spot in the midfield with Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Embley, Stenglein, Braun all at their peaks in 2006.
I think they are about even now..

 

[cs61]

IMHO, that's the best post so far, especially from a "what the player has already done" perspective. How you can claim Buddy Franklin, Brett Deledio etc. has done more than Matthew Egan is beyond me!

Also good to see Ryan Griffen, Matthew Bate & Justin Sherman in the top 10. I couldn't argue with this order.

You would take Egan before Franklin? Please........

Those who say Buddy is 'inconsisten't are kidding themselves. The post, 'missing when we need him most' is absolutely laughable.

His first final he kicked 7 and one from outside 50 with only seconds remaining, in a game where we apparently had no change because of our inexperience. One of the most remarkable performances for a young player I've seen, if not the most. Not sure what more he has to do.

 

[ben_cats_fan]

You would take Egan before Franklin? Please........

Those who say Buddy is 'inconsisten't are kidding themselves. The post, 'missing when we need him most' is absolutely laughable.

His first final he kicked 7 and one from outside 50 with only seconds remaining, in a game where we apparently had no change because of our inexperience. One of the most remarkable performances for a young player I've seen, if not the most. Not sure what more he has to do.

But what has Buddy actually achieved? Egan is the AA CHB in the most impressive side this year, and had it not been for an unfortunate injury, would be wearing a premiership medallion around his neck right now. It's not like he was a just a passenger, he was one of the main reasons we got there!

Don't get me wrong, Buddy Franklin is special. He may well have a lot more potential than he has already shown, in fact, I'm sure of that. But when you are going on the premise of who has shown the most out of the 2004 draft, how can you HONESTLY say that Egan is worthless than Franklin? It is just not possible!

And as for what more does he have to do? Sure he has the spark, but he needs to do it week in, week out. He wins games off his own boot, but he needs to do it more regularly. He has gone missing in games, and with age comes experience, experience that I guarantee will secure a brownlow and/or a norm smith and/or a coleman medal and/or a grand final medallion. However, at this stage, surely you jest

 

[_RT_]

You would take Egan before Franklin? Please........

Those who say Buddy is 'inconsisten't are kidding themselves. The post, 'missing when we need him most' is absolutely laughable.

His first final he kicked 7 and one from outside 50 with only seconds remaining, in a game where we apparently had no change because of our inexperience. One of the most remarkable performances for a young player I've seen, if not the most. Not sure what more he has to do.

But what did Buddy do the following week when the Hawks needed him to step up, from memory not much at all. Sure he got 3 goals against the Roos but IIRC he got them when the game was pratically dead. Also in the weeks leading up to the finals he was found wanting against some good opposition in Port and Sydney. Be honest with yourself, yes Buddy is a freak of a footballer but is not a consistent performer on the big stage yet. When he does that then he'll be a superstar.

 

[cs61]

Your posts reek of anti-hawk bias so there isn't much point in posting this but I will because I'm bored.

Playing as a forward it is nearly impossible to be as consistent as you are demanding, if he was he'd be kicking 140 goals a year, rather than over 70 and in top forwards in the comp, not his age group.

I'd like to see stats for forwards his age, and see how many are kicking that many goals over a season. How many ever did kick that many goals at his age ever.

You can't ignore the Adelaide game, then solely look at the Kangeroos game where the whole side played poorly and single out Franklin when the Roos did extremely well to keep him quiet. I bet Hall, Brown, Carey, Dunstall all had quiet finals games, but no fool would try to use one game and deny everything else.

Did the weekend before not happen? Would Hawthorn have been in the next stage of finals without Franklin?

Its hilarious people are bagging Franklin for that game considering he kicked 3 goals, not like he had a stinker, and was one of the only players to spark us by kicking freak goals, when everyone else appeared flat.

 

[cs61]

But what has Buddy actually achieved? Egan is the AA CHB in the most impressive side this year, and had it not been for an unfortunate injury, would be wearing a premiership medallion around his neck right now. It's not like he was a just a passenger, he was one of the main reasons we got there!

Don't get me wrong, Buddy Franklin is special. He may well have a lot more potential than he has already shown, in fact, I'm sure of that. But when you are going on the premise of who has shown the most out of the 2004 draft, how can you HONESTLY say that Egan is worthless than Franklin? It is just not possible!

And as for what more does he have to do? Sure he has the spark, but he needs to do it week in, week out. He wins games off his own boot, but he needs to do it more regularly. He has gone missing in games, and with age comes experience, experience that I guarantee will secure a brownlow and/or a norm smith and/or a coleman medal and/or a grand final medallion. However, at this stage, surely you jest

Every single club in the competition would take Franklin over Egan already, let alone on potential.

These awards have nothing to with it, brownlows are voted by the umpires, all australians are biased and are just someones opinion like anyone elses and why you hang your hat on them I wouldn't know.

 

[_RT_]

Your posts reek of anti-hawk bias so there isn't much point in posting this but I will because I'm bored.

Playing as a forward it is nearly impossible to be as consistent as you are demanding, if he was he'd be kicking 140 goals a year, rather than over 70 and in top forwards in the comp, not his age group.

I'd like to see stats for forwards his age, and see how many are kicking that many goals over a season. How many ever did kick that many goals at his age ever.

You can't ignore the Adelaide game, then solely look at the Kangeroos game where the whole side played poorly and single out Franklin when the Roos did extremely well to keep him quiet. I bet Hall, Brown, Carey, Dunstall all had quiet finals games, but no fool would try to use one game and deny everything else.

Did the weekend before not happen? Would Hawthorn have been in the next stage of finals without Franklin?

Its hilarious people are bagging Franklin for that game considering he kicked 3 goals, not like he had a stinker, and was one of the only players to spark us by kicking freak goals, when everyone else appeared flat.

Love the hypocrisy, one minute you're saying I can't use one game to justify my thoughts about Buddy being inconsistent but you're using the one great finals game to counter the claim.

As I said in the 3 weeks before the finals Buddy was held in 2 of those games and that is what I'm talking about, too often Buddy will have quite games, sure he might kick 3 goals for the match but how many of them come late when the game is gone. There is no denying that Buddy is a going to be a great footballer but at present despite kicking 70+ goals for the season I think he is inconsistent. Hopefully 08 sees Buddy become a more consistent performer for the Hawks and we all get to see him in full flight for the whole season rather than a handful of games.

 

[davemills]

Cloke has won a Collingwood Best and Fairest, and Egan has been named an AA. If your list really was based on what they had done thus far, they would both be above Deledio.

Lecras has done more than Polo and Pattison, as has Sherman. Tambling hasn't done anything near what Lecras, Knights, Bate and every other player listed below him.

Your bias is unbelievable. Thursfield is a good player but hasn't shown as much as Roughead, Rosa, Knights or Griffen.

On what they have done so far, you have a case. Thursfield, however, is a dead set gun and was all of last year......I would take him over Roughead EVERY day of the week on form to date. Roughead has shown himself to be only slightly better than an ordinary AFL player. Now, is Roughead better than Tambling? Not sure.

Tambling's form for the most part has been inconsistent, and so doesn't warrant being placed to highly as a result. His best has been fantastic and his consistency did start to come towards the end of the year. One of Bling's problem's is, like David Rhyce Jones, he looks like he is running half pace and not chasing at times. If you recall, David had a very lethargic and/or smooth looking gate. Other players going at the same speed look like they are putting in more effort...when they are not.

Roughy kicked quite a few goals, and did some good things. He still seems to be quite a fair way away from being a top shelf player though for mine. I do expect he is going to get better year on year though as I anticipate he will be relying on his body size and smarts to be effective, over pure athleticism. (And I think he is a smartish player - hawks fans - am I wrong?)

Bling also has a lot to prove, and I expect he will imrpove significantly this year and the next couple. I think there is a very real chance that his improvement will be so noted that he is an AA calibre player within two or three years. For that reason alone, I would take him ahead of Roughead right now.

 

[Monkeyboy]

Tambling and Pattison....hahahahahaha
Only at a team who has a wooden spoon list are these two getting a game.

 

[cs61]

Love the hypocrisy, one minute you're saying I can't use one game to justify my thoughts about Buddy being inconsistent but you're using the one great finals game to counter the claim.

As I said in the 3 weeks before the finals Buddy was held in 2 of those games and that is what I'm talking about, too often Buddy will have quite games, sure he might kick 3 goals for the match but how many of them come late when the game is gone. There is no denying that Buddy is a going to be a great footballer but at present despite kicking 70+ goals for the season I think he is inconsistent. Hopefully 08 sees Buddy become a more consistent performer for the Hawks and we all get to see him in full flight for the whole season rather than a handful of games.

"yawn"

 

[jack_riewoldt_rulz]

Tambling and Pattison....hahahahahaha
Only at a team who has a wooden spoon list are these two getting a game.

Whats wrong with patto puts 110% Every game.

 

[ben_cats_fan]

"yawn"

Classic comeback from somebody who has been caught out being hypocritical.

Every single club in the competition would take Franklin over Egan already, let alone on potential.

I am not doubting Franklin's potential and his ability he has already shown. He is talent, don't get me wrong. But how on earth you can claim he has shown more in his short career than Egan is beyond me!!

These awards have nothing to with it, brownlows are voted by the umpires, all australians are biased and are just someones opinion like anyone elses and why you hang your hat on them I wouldn't know.

Regardless what you and/or anybody else believes is opinion etc., name me one person more deserving of the honour of CHB in the AA team this season? And how is your opinion worth more than anybody elses, particularly the people in the field who know what they're talking about. Why you hang your hat on your own opinion I wouldn't know

 

[cs61]

Classic comeback from somebody who has been caught out being hypocritical.



I am not doubting Franklin's potential and his ability he has already shown. He is talent, don't get me wrong. But how on earth you can claim he has shown more in his short career than Egan is beyond me!!



Regardless what you and/or anybody else believes is opinion etc., name me one person more deserving of the honour of CHB in the AA team this season? And how is your opinion worth more than anybody elses, particularly the people in the field who know what they're talking about. Why you hang your hat on your own opinion I wouldn't know

Oh dear.....

I was responding to the comments about Franklin disapearing when we need him most and the Adelaide game seemed to counter that argument in a fairly signicant way. The fact that he didn't dominate the next game (but still kept us in it with freakish goals) does not change that fact at all. If anything from the final against Adelaide you can see Franklin being a big game player, and someone who lifts when its really needed of him. I think I made it clear that everyone players badly against the Roos that day, and to single out Franklin is dumb.

Hilarious that a young player can have a game like he did against Adelaide in a finals atmosphere when we weren't playing all that well, and still get some sort of flak from supporters. Its laughable that he can perform like he has so far, and people still try to talk him down like they did when he was drafted, "will never be a key forward', 'can't mark' 'attitude problem' etc etc. all proved to be nothing comments about those wishing him to fail.

Not sure what you are arguing about. This thread is the top 20 players of the 2004 draft. I have Franklin at 1 on the list, I'm sure most others do too.

I never said anyone else deserved CHB over Egan, quote me where I did. I just said I don't have to look at awards to make my own judgement on players. I don't need Franklin to have an AA or Cloke to have an AA to rate them above Egan.

I couldn't care less if you don't agree with me.

 

[jack_riewoldt_rulz]

Oh dear.....

I was responding to the comments about Franklin disapearing when we need him most and the Adelaide game seemed to counter that argument in a fairly signicant way. The fact that he didn't dominate the next game (but still kept us in it with freakish goals) does not change that fact at all. If anything from the final against Adelaide you can see Franklin being a big game player, and someone who lifts when its really needed of him. I think I made it clear that everyone players badly against the Roos that day, and to single out Franklin is dumb.

Hilarious that a young player can have a game like he did against Adelaide in a finals atmosphere when we weren't playing all that well, and still get some sort of flak from supporters. Its laughable that he can perform like he has so far, and people still try to talk him down like they did when he was drafted, "will never be a key forward', 'can't mark' 'attitude problem' etc etc. all proved to be nothing comments about those wishing him to fail.

Not sure what you are arguing about. This thread is the top 20 players of the 2004 draft. I have Franklin at 1 on the list, I'm sure most others do too.

I never said anyone else deserved CHB over Egan, quote me where I did. I just said I don't have to look at awards to make my own judgement on players. I don't need Franklin to have an AA or Cloke to have an AA to rate them above Egan.

I couldn't care less if you don't agree with me.

Well if his not inconsistent how come when he played the dogs he got 2 goals 11 or something like that.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Cloke>>>Deledio.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Mine

1. Franklin
2. Travis Cloke - slower version of Franklin
3. Ryan Griffen - had on off season but is a strong, powerful midfielder
4. Danyle Pearce (rookie) - great speed, evasiveness
5. Matt Egan - rock solid CHB, takes the best KP forwards
6. Angus Monfries - super competitive, great work ethic, future leader
7. Jarryd Roughead - I actually rate him. He and Franklin will be dynamic in the years to come
8. Brett Deledio - has the ability to be anything but hasnt impressed me yet
9. Nathan van Berlo - very dependable and reliable. Great endurance
10. Matthew Bate - thumping kick, good mark. Still raw but could be very good
11. Sean Rusling - from what I've seen he's good
12. Richard Tambling - unfairly maligned, still should develop into a very good player
13. Matt Rosa - should get more opportunities now and looks a likely type
14. Jordan Lewis - tough, in and under type will be a permanant fixture for the Hawks
15. Mark Le Cras - extremely clever forward who I rate highly
16. Tom Williams - after a patchy start, showed what he may be worth
17. Michael Newton - looks like he may emerge as a FF. Has talent
18. Justin Sherman - probably should be higher but dropped off this year
19. Jesse W Smith - haven't seen enough. Probably underrated him
20. Chris Knights - has ball winning ability but ordinary disposal

 

[jack_riewoldt_rulz]

Mine

1. Franklin
2. Travis Cloke - slower version of Franklin
3. Ryan Griffen - had on off season but is a strong, powerful midfielder
4. Danyle Pearce (rookie) - great speed, evasiveness
5. Matt Egan - rock solid CHB, takes the best KP forwards
6. Angus Monfries - super competitive, great work ethic, future leader
7. Jarryd Roughead - I actually rate him. He and Franklin will be dynamic in the years to come
8. Brett Deledio - has the ability to be anything but hasnt impressed me yet
9. Nathan van Berlo - very dependable and reliable. Great endurance
10. Matthew Bate - thumping kick, good mark. Still raw but could be very good
11. Sean Rusling - from what I've seen he's good
12. Richard Tambling - unfairly maligned, still should develop into a very good player
13. Matt Rosa - should get more opportunities now and looks a likely type
14. Jordan Lewis - tough, in and under type will be a permanant fixture for the Hawks
15. Mark Le Cras - extremely clever forward who I rate highly
16. Tom Williams - after a patchy start, showed what he may be worth
17. Michael Newton - looks like he may emerge as a FF. Has talent
18. Justin Sherman - probably should be higher but dropped off this year
19. Jesse W Smith - haven't seen enough. Probably underrated him
20. Chris Knights - has ball winning ability but ordinary disposal

Deledio at 8 Rustling at 12 Egan at 5 ????

 

[_RT_]

Equal highest goal average per game with Jonothan Brown for season 2007 yet in your eyes he is inconsistent.. You are a fuken idiot mate!

Buddy played 22 games for the year and kicked 73 goals. Scored 38 of those goals in 6 games where he kicked 5+ for the game (ave 6.3 goals per game). That leaves 35 goals kicked in 16 games (average 2.1 goals per game). So yes in my eyes he is inconsistent especially if Hawk fans are using his game against the Crows to label him a superstar.

 

[Main Man]

Well if his not inconsistent how come when he played the dogs he got 2 goals 11 or something like that.

He is inconsistent because he had 13 shots on goal?

 

[jack_riewoldt_rulz]

He is inconsistent because he had 13 shots on goal?

And only two where goals.

 

[CyberKev]

Buddy played 22 games for the year and kicked 73 goals. Scored 38 of those goals in 6 games where he kicked 5+ for the game (ave 6.3 goals per game). That leaves 35 goals kicked in 16 games (average 2.1 goals per game). So yes in my eyes he is inconsistent especially if Hawk fans are using his game against the Crows to label him a superstar.

And Jonathon Brown (some six years older and rated by many as the best player in the game) played 22 games for the year, and scored 40 of his goals in 6 games where he kicked 5+ for the game. That left 37 goals kicked in 16 games (average 2.3 goals per game).

As such, his figures were close to a match to Franklin's, yet he is the AA champion, while Franklin is the inconsistent, overrated junior.

Stop embarrassing yourselves with this anti-Hawk drivel.

 

[The Zebra]

Ridiculous to suggest Egan would be taken over Franklin.

If the draft was done again, Franklin would be the clearest number 1 pick in the history of drafts.

I would take Cloke over Egan as well.

And Smith over Deledio.