2004 Draft Revisited (top 20)

[beatnik]

people have short memories - i question whether this thread should be renamed 'who was the best in 2007

Justin Sherman did more in 05 and 06 than most of the others but his injury-plagured 2007 is freshest in memory

it the draft was done today, plenty of clubs would look at footage older than 2007...Shermo would be a top 5 pick

peace

 

[doggiesin08]

people have short memories - i question whether this thread should be renamed 'who was the best in 2007

Justin Sherman did more in 05 and 06 than most of the others but his injury-plagured 2007 is freshest in memory

it the draft was done today, plenty of clubs would look at footage older than 2007...Shermo would be a top 5 pick

peace

I'm sorry but LOL, no way would Sherman be a top 5 pick. Delids, Buddy, Roughead,Griffen,Lewis all ahead easily still.

TRAVIS CLOKE would be at Selection 10 if done today as the new F/S rule would apply.

 

[SuperHooper]

I'm sorry but LOL, no way would Sherman be a top 5 pick. Delids, Buddy, Roughead,Griffen,Lewis all ahead easily still.

TRAVIS CLOKE would be at Selection 10 if done today as the new F/S rule would apply.

As shown in the previous page Sherman is MORE capable at this stage than either of them. Jordan Lewis is the best midfielder based on performance while Buddy is the best forward. Roughead is in the Ben Dixon mould, as in overrated. Averages 9.2 disposals and 1.8 goals which is pathetic considering the Hawks dominance, their midfield and the fact that he is the second or third tall. He proved he can perform again wooden spoon sides like richmond and carlton but is harding a buddy franklin or westoff

" Compare their 2006 seasons

Sherman

487 Disposals
17 Goals
22 Games


Griffen

411 Disposals
7 Goals
24 Games


Deledio

395 Disposals
5 Goals
21 Games

We know Sherman can play at a higher standard and has had better season than most of the other players.

The other two players haven't shown more than Sherman has"

 

[Cjkirbs19]

Franklin is a gun, Richmond fans are just p**sed off they didnt get him. Tambling is not a top 5 pick anymore, no matter what way Richmond spin it. He shanks too many kicks, doesnt get enough of the ball, is soft and his only real asset at the moment is his pace.

If Buddy is ïnconsistent", what is Tambling?

Egan was lucky, Geelong easily had the best midfield in the game, which somewhat shielded the defence, especially as the pressure in the midfield caused delivery into the opposition forward line to be rushed and of less quality. He also had a very good defence around him, Scarlett killed everyone, Milburn cut off everything and was always there as the 3rd man up to kill the contest, and they had quality small backs to sweep the contest.

Cloke and Buddy are different types of forwards, therefore its too hard to compare them in terms of goals kicked. Cloke, i bet would have had far more assists than Franklin, and was used as the hard working CHF, which Franklin clearly isnt. Im not knocking Franklin, just pointing out the different needs of their respective teams and therefore they play a different role.

Sherman IS a gun, dominated last year and was affected greatly by injury this season.

Deledio can have moments and matches of pure brilliance (Kille us in Rd 19, 5 goals 2). If Buddy is inconsistent then so is Deledio. Roughead should not be viewed purely in terms of goals kicked either, he takes the bigger bodied full back, allowing Franklin to take the 2nd biggest back, who he can xpose with athleticism. Roughead also creates the space for Franklin to occupy. Will be interesting to see how Franklin, Roughead, Boyle and Williams all go.

Rusling, as good as he could be, got smashed in Perth, and played 4 games for the year. Dont get me wrong,i rate him highly, but he needs to improve his leading (currently only leads straight at the ball carrier), and his agility(has a poor turning circle). However, he is important due to his pure pace, strong hands and efficient kicking.

Hawthorn supporters, dont get to worked up by the Richmond faithful, one team is playing finals football, and the other collecting spoons. Both went down at the same time (After good 2001 seasons), and finished 15th + 16th respectively in 2004.

 

[Newtowner]

Heres my Top 20
1. Lance Franklin
2. Mathew Egan
3. Travis Cloke
4. Brett Deledio
5. Jordan Lewis
6. Chris Knights
7. Jesse W Smith
8. Daniel Pearce
9. Matt Rosa
10. Justin Sherman
11. Nathan Van Berlo
12. Sean Rusling
13. Jarred Roughead
14. Mathew Bate
15. Mark LeCras
16. Ryan Griffen
17.Cameron Wood
18. Will Thursfields
19. Angus Monfries
20. Richard Tambling

 

[tony_montana]

if the draft was done again, buddy would go clear number 1 and as good as Egan and Cloke have been they wouldnt get picked ahead of Deledio who has shown glimpses that if he puts it together hed be a unstoppable not unlike Buddy

 

[DanA]

Based on a combination of performance and potential on a risk reward basis. My top 10 would be:

1. Lance Franklin - The clear standout. Was unlucky not to be AA in 07, is an athletic freak and players the toughest position in the game. This guy could be anything.2. Travis Cloke - A powerful CHF who is an exceptional contested mark. The winner of the Pies B&F and he is actually quite quick. 3. Mathew Egan - Arguably the best performing and certainly the most decorated guy from the draft. Ultra consistent but he is older and it is easier to play a negative role than as a CHF. For that reason I have him a close 3rd.

4. Brett Deledio - The best midfielder in the draft on potential but I think Lewis has out performed him so far. Touch a go for him and Lewis but Deledio squeezes ahead on potential to improve. Daylight behind the top 3. 5. Jordan Lewis - Certainly the most consistent midfielder in the draft and you know what you get with him but he probably doesn't have the same level of improvement left as some of the others in the top 10.
6. Ryan Griffen - The knee injury has dropped him down the list. If he had of backed up his 06 season then he could very well squeexe in ahead of Deledio. I think he has more potential than Lewis but is more of a risk so he fits in just below.
7. Jesse W Smith -Another one who has had injury problems but the guys is a future star and could vefry well sneak into the top 5 in the next 2 years. Knights has outperformed him but I would take Jesse before him based mostly on his mobility for size and foot skills.
8. Chris Knights - Good honest ball magnet who seems to have cleaned up his disposal after a poor 2006. Still the guys foot skills are probably below what I would want for a top tier outside midfielder. He slides in here quite comfortably I think.

9. Cameron Wood - Mostly based on potential this guy looks like he could be a very good ruckmen for the pies. Still I don't see the certain super talent that others suggest he is.


10. Tom Williams - This guy is this high purely on talent, was good in 07 but this kid has the potential t be a star as far as I am concerned. Next to Buddy he is probably the most athletic young Kp out there.

 

[jetta2davey]

Based on a combination of performance and potential on a risk reward basis. My top 10 would be:

1. Lance Franklin - The clear standout. Was unlucky not to be AA in 07, is an athletic freak and players the toughest position in the game. This guy could be anything.2. Travis Cloke - A powerful CHF who is an exceptional contested mark. The winner of the Pies B&F and he is actually quite quick. 3. Mathew Egan - Arguably the best performing and certainly the most decorated guy from the draft. Ultra consistent but he is older and it is easier to play a negative role than as a CHF. For that reason I have him a close 3rd.

4. Brett Deledio - The best midfielder in the draft on potential but I think Lewis has out performed him so far. Touch a go for him and Lewis but Deledio squeezes ahead on potential to improve. Daylight behind the top 3. 5. Jordan Lewis - Certainly the most consistent midfielder in the draft and you know what you get with him but he probably doesn't have the same level of improvement left as some of the others in the top 10.
6. Ryan Griffen - The knee injury has dropped him down the list. If he had of backed up his 06 season then he could very well squeexe in ahead of Deledio. I think he has more potential than Lewis but is more of a risk so he fits in just below.
7. Jesse W Smith -Another one who has had injury problems but the guys is a future star and could vefry well sneak into the top 5 in the next 2 years. Knights has outperformed him but I would take Jesse before him based mostly on his mobility for size and foot skills.
8. Chris Knights - Good honest ball magnet who seems to have cleaned up his disposal after a poor 2006. Still the guys foot skills are probably below what I would want for a top tier outside midfielder. He slides in here quite comfortably I think.

9. Cameron Wood - Mostly based on potential this guy looks like he could be a very good ruckmen for the pies. Still I don't see the certain super talent that others suggest he is.


10. Tom Williams - This guy is this high purely on talent, was good in 07 but this kid has the potential t be a star as far as I am concerned. Next to Buddy he is probably the most athletic young Kp out there.

pretty good, i think i would replace wood with rusling if you are basing it on potential though. And maybe also replace Williams for Van berlo.

 

[makethat2]

Franklin is clear number 1

Egan is clear number 2 - People claim Cloke + Deledio are better, yet have not reached the same heights as Egan yet. Btw people who think this will be egans best season He has heaps of development left. When he came to the club as a VFL player he could hardly kick a footy.

Cloke gave Egan a hiding last time they meet.

 

[randy_stote]

As shown in the previous page Sherman is MORE capable at this stage than either of them. Jordan Lewis is the best midfielder based on performance while Buddy is the best forward. Roughead is in the Ben Dixon mould, as in overrated. Averages 9.2 disposals and 1.8 goals which is pathetic considering the Hawks dominance, their midfield and the fact that he is the second or third tall. He proved he can perform again wooden spoon sides like richmond and carlton but is harding a buddy franklin or westoff

"

Your whole point was going well until you brought up Roughead. If you actually bothered to watch any Hawthorn games at all, you would have seen that Roughead gets the best defender almost every week. Teams tended to play a more athletic player (ie. Ryder) on Franklin leaving the best defender (ie. Fletcher/Michael) to go to Roughead. He also tends to play more time outside the forward 50, sometimes as far as the defensive 50. The fact is that for a 3rd year KPP, 2 goals a game is not bad considering he has had Buddy next to him averaging nearly 4 goals, Mark Williams averaging 3, Tim Boyle averaging 2 and Ben Dixon averaging 2. Having such a full forward line means he doesn't have the same flood of opportunity that other players do.

 

[davemills]

Franklin is a gun, Richmond fans are just p**sed off they didnt get him. Tambling is not a top 5 pick anymore, no matter what way Richmond spin it. He shanks too many kicks, doesnt get enough of the ball, is soft and his only real asset at the moment is his pace.

If Buddy is ïnconsistent", what is Tambling?

Deledio can have moments and matches of pure brilliance (Kille us in Rd 19, 5 goals 2). If Buddy is inconsistent then so is Deledio. Roughead should not be viewed purely in terms of goals kicked either, he takes the bigger bodied full back, allowing Franklin to take the 2nd biggest back, who he can xpose with athleticism. Roughead also creates the space for Franklin to occupy. Will be interesting to see how Franklin, Roughead, Boyle and Williams all go.

Hawthorn supporters, dont get to worked up by the Richmond faithful, one team is playing finals football, and the other collecting spoons. Both went down at the same time (After good 2001 seasons), and finished 15th + 16th respectively in 2004.

A couple of points to note on what I think's an otherwise fair assesment.

Tambling doesn't shank many kicks. He is generally very accurate with his disposal. Top 5 pick right now, sure, no way. That said, I and quite a few others are confident of a big imrovement coming from him this year and next.

Deledio generally goes between a good performer to star, but generally finds a way to contribute. If you call that inconsistent, fine.

Also, if Franklin's not getting the best defender each week, perhaps he's not as good as many make out! (I.e. if Roughead should be upgraded in assesment because of this, Franklin should be downgraded surely.)

 

[kirbatron]

its all about the best matchup for buddy which on some occasions is not the best defender..

 

[lids2004roar]

Bling will be the best midfielder of the draft IMO

He will be better than Deledio as a midfielder anyway, and we have all seen how good Lids can be.

 

[Philhawk]

Don't see why people say that Lewis has 'limited improvement' left in him.

If anything, he came to the club with an extremely poor fitness base behind him and with a decent amount of body fat.

Once his aerobic capacity improves after a couple more seasons, he'll go from being the best midfielder in this draft to one of the best in the AFL.

 

[Lockyer24]

If I was choosing to recruit in order of preference

1. Buddy - the clear star of the crop
2. Cloke - although not as talented is as important to his teams success as Buddy
3. Deledio - started to show some signs this year
4. Roughead - Id almost take him over Deledio based on his huge upside
5. Griffen - rated him ahead of Deledio but has gone backwards a touch, Deledio has started to get going
6. Smith - think he will just be a very good player for his size
7. Lewis - will be a good 3rd/4th midfielder for rest of career no worries
8. Egan - good dependable player, not sure I rate him as high as others

The rest will be good serviceable players but can't see any of them being AA regulars or anything

 

[SouthSwans]

1. Buddy
2. Lewis
3. Cloke
4. Deledio
5. Le Cras
6. Smith
7. Egan
8. Newton
9. Roughead
10. Pearce
11. Van Berlo
12. Thursfield
13. Rosa
14. Bate
15. Griffen
16. Taylor
17. McGuane
18. Ablett
19. Knights
20. Moran

75. McQualter
76. Tambling
77. Ackland

 

[randy_stote]

Also, if Franklin's not getting the best defender each week, perhaps he's not as good as many make out! (I.e. if Roughead should be upgraded in assesment because of this, Franklin should be downgraded surely.)

Do you really believe what you post or are you even more simple than what we all thought. Do you think that you have stumbled upon some revelation that has somehow gone unnoticed that somehow downgrades Buddy's well performed season. I would think that the many and various media outlets, footballers (ex and present) and general public would realise that Buddy does not get the best defender every single week and still rate him as they do. Should we all of a sudden say that Adam Goodes should have his Brownlows taken off him just because Mark Bolton played on him every time the two teams met?

 

[lids_tiger_army]

1. Buddy
2. Lewis
3. Cloke
4. Deledio
5. Le Cras
6. Smith
7. Egan
8. Newton
9. Roughead
10. Pearce
11. Van Berlo
12. Thursfield
13. Rosa
14. Bate
15. Griffen
16. Taylor
17. McGuane
18. Ablett
19. Knights
20. Moran

75. McQualter
76. Tambling
77. Ackland

you are a complete d***head.....
really do you watch football??
try fill in the other 55 or so names ahead of him that you missed..
complete utter fool.. you a waste of space on BF.. get a life mate

 

[rizzo]

Cloke gave Egan a hiding last time they meet.

Whats your point? Egan is still the better player at this point in time?

 

[Nightwolf]

1. Franklin
2. Lewis
3. Roughead

The rest


88. Ackland
89. Tambling

 

[Unwritten_Law]

Don't see why people say that Lewis has 'limited improvement' left in him.

If anything, he came to the club with an extremely poor fitness base behind him and with a decent amount of body fat.

Once his aerobic capacity improves after a couple more seasons, he'll go from being the best midfielder in this draft to one of the best in the AFL.

Bartel, McLean, Lewis, Jones and J. Selwood.

Apparently none of them would/will improve because they had AFL ready bodies, relative to their peers, in their first season

All that potential from Walker etc. will see them become much better in time

 

[davemills]

Wow. That got you fired up! Now I don't usually respond to posts such as yours, but this is to much fun...

Now, firstly, I don't think you should take it so personally that Roughead isn't considered by 'everyone' to be the player you seem to think he is. You can justify it in any way you like, but to date he has proven to be average at best.

Also, because I am 'bemused' by your comments...perhaps they are just to damn intelligent for my 'simpleness' that they have gone over my head. I have a question for you. Wasn't it you who in response to SuperHooper saying Roughead is overated said ? :

"Your whole point was going well until you brought up Roughead. If you actually bothered to watch any Hawthorn games at all, you would have seen that Roughead gets the best defender almost every week."


Now what's the point of this comment other than to imply that the reader should consider Roughead more highly because of this fact? If this is the only point your making here, then it's a simple point (taking on the BEST should mean we take this into account when judging Roughead). To which my response still stands : if you giveth extra credit to Roughead because he takes the BEST defender each week then that infers Franklin doesn't get the best defender and so 'simple' accounting dictates that if we credit Roughead because of this then we debit Franklin at least somewhat.

Now lets examine how I debit his performance a bit less simply than last time for you...otherwise you may make even more ludicrous comments than last time.

We can assume that Buddy is assigned the 'first' player each weak because he is the probably the hawks most dangerous forward. So he gets the best matchup for him, but not always the best defender. This matchup as you stated is normally the most athletic player.

Now Buddy is not one of the best contested marks in the league. His athleticism and ability to produce surprising results are much more his big keys. But this means he has a limitation that can be exploited. If the oppositions best defender is playing on him and is equally athletic, then Buddy has a problem. How is he going to contribute. Perhaps this is why he is inconsistent?

Also - it's rare that true champions have limitiations like this. Name more than one if you can. The reason is that these type of players get their weakness exploited when it matters most. So what happens if this matchup happens in a Grand Final, which is really what it's all about for most players?

So perhaps Franklin isn't as good as you seem to be blissfully thinking EVERYONE thinks. Have a read around the traps and you will find plenty of criticism mixed in with the great stuff he can so obviously produce.

Also a look towards the future...

Now the league is getting faster, more athletic and taller year on year. That is well known. So it stands to reason the 'best' defenders are getting more athletic as well.

So what's going to happen in 5 years time with your champion? You had better hope he improves his contested marking. A skill which is very hard to develop.

(Actually, for the record and taking away all the bs for a second, some players do develop in this area, and I actaully think Buddy may develop this skill)

Now do I have to go into more depth for you Randy Stote? Or can I go back to my simple ways for a while?

Regardless of your response. Merry Christmas.

Do you really believe what you post or are you even more simple than what we all thought. Do you think that you have stumbled upon some revelation that has somehow gone unnoticed that somehow downgrades Buddy's well performed season. I would think that the many and various media outlets, footballers (ex and present) and general public would realise that Buddy does not get the best defender every single week and still rate him as they do. Should we all of a sudden say that Adam Goodes should have his Brownlows taken off him just because Mark Bolton played on him every time the two teams met?

 

[Crow-mo]

Bling will be the best midfielder of the draft IMO

He will be better than Deledio as a midfielder anyway, and we have all seen how good Lids can be.

you'll be lucky if bling even makes it.

 

[Ruse]

Which of the 2004 group has already made the AA squad? I know sherman has but is there anyone else? if not then wouldn't that make him in the top 5 at least?

 

[Slattery_20]

people have short memories - i question whether this thread should be renamed 'who was the best in 2007

Justin Sherman did more in 05 and 06 than most of the others but his injury-plagured 2007 is freshest in memory

it the draft was done today, plenty of clubs would look at footage older than 2007...Shermo would be a top 5 pick

peace

I'm sorry but LOL, no way would Sherman be a top 5 pick. Delids, Buddy, Roughead,Griffen,Lewis all ahead easily still.

TRAVIS CLOKE would be at Selection 10 if done today as the new F/S rule would apply.

QED!
ha ha
Prior to this season, it would have been Sherman then a tie for Deledio & Griffen
Sherman the best value for pick in the draft