2010 All-Australian Team (Part 2)

[Barnzy]

O'Brien lol.

Good year by his standards but not an AA year.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

harry o'brien is a poor mans sam gilbert.

 

[danielnajdek]

Sure bud wateva Gilbert can't play on a opponent. Looks good when he's running around by himself.

 

[Vixen]

harry o'brien is a poor mans sam gilbert.

what?!

Gilbert is soft as melted butter, can hardly kick the thing, too scared to play on an opponent. Gilbert is a poor mans Toovey. Overrated squib.

 

[AG]

Gilbert isn't soft. He backs into packs all the time. The only real criticism of him is that he plays loose a fair bit. Skills are good, footy smarts are good and his courage in the air can't be questioned.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

what?!

maxwell is soft as melted butter, can hardly kick the thing, too scared to play on an opponent. maxwell is a poor mans Toovey. Overrated squib.

fixed for accuracy.

 

[Eth]

fixed for accuracy.

Gold.

Shame neither of them will make the team

 

[smiddaz123]

I rate Gilbert really highly, but to become a genuinely elite player, he needs to be able to kick on his non-preferred. Fisher too.

 

[La Vache]

I rate Gilbert really highly, but to become a genuinely elite player, he needs to be able to kick on his non-preferred. Fisher too.

I'm not sure of your definition of elite but mine would have included plenty of one sided players over the years. Sumich, Hird, West, Power, Madden, Franklin...

 

[smiddaz123]

I'm not sure of your definition of elite but mine would have included plenty of one sided players over the years. Sumich, Hird, West, Power, Madden, Franklin...

I never said no footballer can be elite while being one sided.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

I rate Gilbert really highly, but to become a genuinely elite player, he needs to be able to kick on his non-preferred. Fisher too.

gilbert has had outstanding successive seasons and may not be elite but he's not far off it and he's only just turned 24. fisher has been one of the best and most consistent centre half backs of the last 3-4 years.

 

[smiddaz123]

gilbert has had outstanding successive seasons and may not be elite but he's not far off it and he's only just turned 24. fisher has been one of the best and most consistent centre half backs of the last 3-4 years.

Yeh I understand that, I'm not a detractor of either, they're both great defenders. Don't confuse what I'm saying with me not rating either.

I've just seen Gilbert get into a bit of trouble because he refused to use his right foot, ditto Fisher with his left foot. I think it's getting more important to be able to use your wrong foot competently.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Yeh I understand that, I'm not a detractor of either, they're both great defenders. Don't confuse what I'm saying with me not rating either.

I've just seen Gilbert get into a bit of trouble because he refused to use his right foot, ditto Fisher with his left foot. I think it's getting more important to be able to use your wrong foot competently.

i don't think fisher's 'no left foot' became an issue until the pies game in round 16 where he turned the ball over a couple of times when refusing to kick on his left.

gilbert like the majority of left footers doesn't have a right. he still manages to side step most opposition players to get back on his left tho.

 

[Richo83]

My crack - could be biased

B - Harry O, Lake, Goddard
HB - Hodge, Frawley, Enright
C - Pendlebury, Swan, Judd
HF - Didak, Franklin, Chapman
F - LeCras, Riewoldt. J, Cloke
R - Sandilands, Ablett, Selwood. J
I/C - Hayes, Riewoldt. N, Boyd, Montagna.

The reason I have Cloke ahead of Bazza is based on Trav's all round game.

Yeah - Baz has kicked 38 more goals well done to him on that.
Yet the reason I rate Trav higher is that he has out performed Bazza in every other key indicator measurable in football.

Yeah, biased indeed!

Yet no-one cares about How many 1% a FF kicks because his job is to kick goals. You may as well pick the CHB based on disposals, I mean the amount of crap stats you've brought up is crazy. Influence, not stats matter. Cloke goes missing by the way, and he's not exactly having a breakout season, 31.33 isn't amazing.

Lets go down the list of possible forwards:

Didak - excellent season and has won more games than Cloke has for your team
Chapman - will go close to top five in the brownlow IMO.
Green - main forward, 50 goals, developing team. Good effort.
LeCras - as I said, he's kicked 60 goals in the spooner team.
Riewoldt - goes without saying.
Hall - second in the coleman. As a pure goal-kicking forward not many you can go past.
Franklin - 50+ goals and every game he's played, he's played well pretty much.
Pav - quite a good year, better than Clokes'.

Then you've got SJ. IMO those 8 listed have had easily better years than Cloke, and anyway, I like the idea of having four smalls and two talls, it gives balance and is a more accurate portrayal anyway. Cloke doesn't play forward pocket, not well anyway. I know rules have been thrown out the window but when Cloke doesn't even play FP, and hasn't played well enough to be AA, it's a steep ask that only blind-biased pies fans would suggest (I'm sorry, but the guy's got major flaws in his game. he isn't even leading your goal kicking and he's supposed to be this gun key forward, he's kicked more than two goals only three times this year, and has a kicking average in the 40s. There are so many KPF who I see as having better years than him. Pav has had a better year than him.)

So there's 8 players conceivably ahead of him for the six or so spots for forwards in the team, let be put it this way, if Cloke makes AA, I'll never speak about footy on this forum again. Bookmark it, quote it, whatever. He's got buckley's chance of making it, as a forward, he doesn't kick enough goals, and misses way too many. Much of his work up the ground is largely wasted. If you had a top-line forward (and those are the types that should make AA) you'd be a monty for the gf. At the moment, you're slight favorite. Hall is going to finish close to 80 goals for the season, that's hard to go past especially if you have him on the interchange. I find it unlikely that we wont be able to find a group of forwards better than Trav to put in the AA team.

 

[lozza63]

Richo83

I could not possibly rate Cloke in the AA based on his goal kicking alone - I said as much and I re-iterate that it is those all those "crazy stats" that I measure him by - what is wrong with a forward spoiling to keep the ball in the forward line - it helps the side have another crack at a turnover and goal does it not?

Collingwood's success this year has been based around forward pressure - here Cloke has excelled especially with his contested possessions (which I rate highly).

Contested marks - number one in that stat even on avg per game. If much of his work is wasted up the ground - not all his fault surely. He works up and down the ground much harder than Bazza - I rate that highly u dont.

Assuming that forwards kicking goals influence games so much why haven't Bazza's Dogs won more games then? Also you cant tell me he hasnt gone missing once or twice himself?

As for Pav - well either he's sore, missing Sandi and Barlow or whatever, but I reckon he hasnt been as effective since rd 12 or so.

Settle down about not posting again if he gets selected - the probability is that he wont.

My opinion (and that I am entitled to) is that Cloke has done much for us this year and I'm hoping like hell he keeps up his momentum, and perhaps that he kicks a little straighter - that would be just fine by me.

Hell if the team who finishes top of the ladder cant have 5 blokes in an AA - well what happened there?

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

harry o'brien is a poor mans sam gilbert.

Except that he can actually defend and Gilbert can't....hmmmmmm........

Gilbert is a very good player but being a loose man in defence in a team that floods more than the tropics means that his numbers are inflated MASSIVELY. O'Brien defends (or marks from opposition kick), then runs off. Gilbert receives (or marks from opposition kick), then runs off. O'Brien plays on the opposition's best small forward all game most weeks and also plays on the elite midfield/forwards such as Ablett when they go in there. HE still provides nearly as much run as Gilbert.

O'Brien > Gilbert and easily.

 

[00Stinger]

Richo83

I could not possibly rate Cloke in the AA based on his goal kicking alone - I said as much and I re-iterate that it is those all those "crazy stats" that I measure him by - what is wrong with a forward spoiling to keep the ball in the forward line - it helps the side have another crack at a turnover and goal does it not?

Collingwood's success this year has been based around forward pressure - here Cloke has excelled especially with his contested possessions (which I rate highly).

Contested marks - number one in that stat even on avg per game. If much of his work is wasted up the ground - not all his fault surely. He works up and down the ground much harder than Bazza - I rate that highly u dont.

Assuming that forwards kicking goals influence games so much why haven't Bazza's Dogs won more games then? Also you cant tell me he hasnt gone missing once or twice himself?

As for Pav - well either he's sore, missing Sandi and Barlow or whatever, but I reckon he hasnt been as effective since rd 12 or so.

Settle down about not posting again if he gets selected - the probability is that he wont.

My opinion (and that I am entitled to) is that Cloke has done much for us this year and I'm hoping like hell he keeps up his momentum, and perhaps that he kicks a little straighter - that would be just fine by me.

Hell if the team who finishes top of the ladder cant have 5 blokes in an AA - well what happened there?

If Cloke makes the AA team then it is a friggin' joke.
He has been good this year but no where near AA form. He is a good solid player but will probably never be an AA quality player

 

[robertg22]

If he had kicked straight this year he'd be up there in discussion, but probably not in the team. Though if he was ever going to make it, it would be this year with Riewoldt/Brown missing too much footy

 

[D BRIDGE]

Gilbert Lake ??????????
Enright Taylor Goddard
Pendlebury Selwood Chapman
Didak Franklin Ablett
????????? Riewoldt ?????????
Sandilands Hodge Swan
Montagna ???????? Judd ???????

Most of these player would be in all of our teams and im happy with all of them in these spots but the ???????? are up for grabs and the contenders are.

BP ????? HarryO, Frawley
FP ????? LeCras, SJ, Green, Hall
IC ????? Pavlich, Deledio, Hayes, Boyd

Hard to split really but the AA panel will have to make these calls.
Maybe a big R22 could sway a position or two.​

 

[Richo83]

Richo83

I could not possibly rate Cloke in the AA based on his goal kicking alone - I said as much and I re-iterate that it is those all those "crazy stats" that I measure him by - what is wrong with a forward spoiling to keep the ball in the forward line - it helps the side have another crack at a turnover and goal does it not?

It's such a lame argument to suggest that a forward should be selected for AA because, wait for it... he spoils. Even saying it out loud it sounds stupid. For what it's worth Riewoldt has one of the highest tackle rates inside 50 but it means squat to his possible AA selection (kicking close to 80 goals does.)

Collingwood's success this year has been based around forward pressure - here Cloke has excelled especially with his contested possessions (which I rate highly).

Collingwood's success has been due to a rampant midfield, which, due to sustained pressure, forces their opponents to cough up the ball. Lets not dress up Cloke for anything more than he is: a solid clubman who can't kick.

Contested marks - number one in that stat even on avg per game. If much of his work is wasted up the ground - not all his fault surely. He works up and down the ground much harder than Bazza - I rate that highly u dont.

Okay then, if we're going to select a guy who takes grabs and presses opponents, why not put pods in there? He's had a better season than Cloke, kicks goals too.

Assuming that forwards kicking goals influence games so much why haven't Bazza's Dogs won more games then? Also you cant tell me he hasnt gone missing once or twice himself?

You don't honestly blame Hall for the dogs losing their games, right? Because you realise that it's the dogs' lack of midfield pressure and chasing that loses games, not to mention they're simply a lesser side than the saints, cats and pies, right?

Right?

As for Pav - well either he's sore, missing Sandi and Barlow or whatever, but I reckon he hasnt been as effective since rd 12 or so.

And this is why he's not in my team, but he's had more influential games than Cloke. I fear Pav more than I fear Cloke. Stick a good defender on Cloke force him to go wide and out, and his influence is negated.

Settle down about not posting again if he gets selected - the probability is that he wont.

My opinion (and that I am entitled to) is that Cloke has done much for us this year and I'm hoping like hell he keeps up his momentum, and perhaps that he kicks a little straighter - that would be just fine by me.

Hell if the team who finishes top of the ladder cant have 5 blokes in an AA - well what happened there?

Just because the pies finished first doesn't mean they're guaranteed a quota of AA spots, especially if it means players like Cloke get in. Pendles, Swan, HOB, Thomas and Didak are really the only players I would consider from the pies. It makes sense, given they're a side which wins on the back of 22 solid performers than a star player.

Trust me, if Cloke gets a gig, people will look at this AA and think: "Ablett... yeah... Riewoldt... yeah... Swan.... Cloke WTF?!" it will completely legitimate it, if it hasn't been already.

Let me put it this way, if I made a poll about this, no-one except blind pie fans like you would support his AA selection. Everyone else would realise it for what it is: ridiculous.

It proves the bigfooty mantra, that on bigfooty there's always someone who will justify even the stupidest argument. You're entitled to your argument, just like a bomber fan is entitled to say than the bombers have a good midfield. They're entitled to say it, doesn't make em right though.

 

[Richo83]

If Cloke makes the AA team then it is a friggin' joke.
He has been good this year but no where near AA form. He is a good solid player but will probably never be an AA quality player

This in entirety.

@ robertg22 I think in many ways Cloke is a kind of guy who benefits from being in such a great team, he gets plenty of delivery, his fellow teammates are excellent at forward pressure, I mean it's not like he's pulling a side up by it's bootstraps a la Riewoldt and LeCras. He's a solid contributor, don't get me wrong, and he's handy. But solid contributors don't get AA spots, and in reality, if pies fans were being honest, they'd definitely admit they wish for an A grade tall, which is why they went for Fev last year (which, in hindsight, they're lucky not to have done). He's kicked three bags of four or more, two against the bombers who the pies beat up on, and freo. Other than that he's been hit and miss as a forward. I think Franklin and Riewoldt are banked picks, and I think someone like Pods or Pav having a better year than Cloke easily kicks him out for the second spot IMO.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Travis Cloke has kicked 2 goals in the 3 Collingwood losses and draw combined. And only 2 bags of 5 in 'demolition jobs'.

Luckily no one is even mentioning his name in these AA threads.

Knew it was only a matter of time.

 

[robertg22]

This in entirety.

@ robertg22 I think in many ways Cloke is a kind of guy who benefits from being in such a great team, he gets plenty of delivery, his fellow teammates are excellent at forward pressure, I mean it's not like he's pulling a side up by it's bootstraps a la Riewoldt and LeCras. He's a solid contributor, don't get me wrong, and he's handy. But solid contributors don't get AA spots, and in reality, if pies fans were being honest, they'd definitely admit they wish for an A grade tall, which is why they went for Fev last year (which, in hindsight, they're lucky not to have done). He's kicked three bags of four or more, two against the bombers who the pies beat up on, and freo. Other than that he's been hit and miss as a forward. I think Franklin and Riewoldt are banked picks, and I think someone like Pods or Pav having a better year than Cloke easily kicks him out for the second spot IMO.

Mooney was AA in 07! The precedent was set.
Cloke is a shocking kick, but he's close to the best contested mark in the whole league.
I can not agree that Pods has had a better year at all. You say he's just a solid contributor in a good side? What's Pods then? He kicks bags of goals when Geelong pump teams down at KP and that's it.

I'll reiterate: Travis Cloke is not in AA discussions (this is the AA thread after all) but am saying, if he had kicked straighter this year, he would rightfully be in the discussions to possibly make the squad.
But, he hasn't. So he isn't.

 

[Richo83]

Mooney was AA in 07! The precedent was set.

I know!

Cloke is a shocking kick, but he's close to the best contested mark in the whole league.

Yeah, but I think you need more than that.

I can not agree that Pods has had a better year at all. You say he's just a solid contributor in a good side? What's Pods then? He kicks bags of goals when Geelong pump teams down at KP and that's it.

Eh, I guess but my point is neither pods or Cloke are AA for a reason.

I'll reiterate: Travis Cloke is not in AA discussions (this is the AA thread after all) but am saying, if he had kicked straighter this year, he would rightfully be in the discussions to possibly make the squad. But, he hasn't. So he isn't.

Fair enough, at least you're not saying he deserves it on this form!

 

[Thommo 42]

Mooney AA in '07 was a genuine joke. But Cloke in '10 would be a joke of far more epic proportions.

Moons did manage 60 odd goals that year.