Opinion 2010 Top 50

[ablett09]

Stop trying to ruin a great thread troll.

saying gary ablett should be number 1 isnt trolling , its just putting forward an argument that most people would agree with.yes this is a great thread , the OP deserves credit for putting so much effort into it but he is selling himself short by trying to make his thread stand out and be controversial by not having ablett as number 1.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

saying gary ablett should be number 1 isnt trolling , its just putting forward an argument that most people would agree with.yes this is a great thread , the OP deserves credit for putting so much effort into it but he is selling himself short by trying to make his thread stand out and be controversial by not having ablett as number 1.

First off most 'football fans' are morons who watch very little football outside of their own team.
Hodge deserved to number 1 based on sustained form over that period, now Hodge has had an average game and Ablett maintained he should rise, but to suggest Gary Ablett is an automatic number one is rubbish.

There is nothing controversial about Ablett not being number one, despite his statistical dominance, many have looked past the impressive numbers and questioned his actual influence. IMO Ablett was a better player two years ago, although in the past 5 rounds he has started to regain his influence; kicking long, running the lines and getting forward more after a slowish start (influence wise).

 

[ablett09]

First off most 'football fans' are morons who watch very little football outside of their own team.
Hodge deserved to number 1 based on sustained form over that period, now Hodge has had an average game and Ablett maintained he should rise, but to suggest Gary Ablett is an automatic number one is rubbish.

There is nothing controversial about Ablett not being number one, despite his statistical dominance, many have looked past the impressive numbers and questioned his actual influence. IMO Ablett was a better player two years ago, although in the past 5 rounds he has started to regain his influence; kicking long, running the lines and getting forward more after a slowish start (influence wise).

not sure how abletts not having much inlfuence, every 2nd week he is close to best on ground and considering he plays for geelong thats an oustanding achivement.Just last week garry lyon said ablett could easily have 5 best on grounds.

2 common quries that people have on BF about ablett is that he dosent win enough hard ball, well the stas make rubbish out of that.The other is that he handballs to much, well in todays game a handball can often be the best option and can be just as damaging as a kick.

the best 2 coaches in the game are currently paul roos and bomber thompson and both rate ablett as the best player in the game.

im sorry but ablett is just a class above the rest , i know thats boring but its a fact.He is flawles footballer

 

[MVP_PaulRoos]

LOL ,you couch dosent seem to agree with you.Mike sheehan "if a fairy god mother came to you and said you can have any player in the compettion play for sydney from the 15 other sides who would it be ?'' paul roos " Gary ablett" .Sheehan " thats it ? roos "yehp gary ablett "

their is just no camparison betweent he 2

First off, not having Ablett at number 1 in this thread is not controversial. You may have noticed that you are pretty much the only one who has said anything about it. Most fair-minded footy fans would agree that while Ablett's stat-heavy games make him the unquestioned number 1 in fantasy leagues, his actual influence on games is not as significant as certain players from other teams. One such example, before his injury, was Riewoldt. Pavlich and Sandilands are two more. And as this thread illustrated, Hodge is yet another.

Given that Hodge was basically shut down by Nick Smith in the last game, he will probably drop out of number 1 this week. There is a fair chance Ablett will move in to number 1 as a result of that. Which should make you happy. And he deserves it, in my opinion. But last week, Hodge deserved it. Ablett did not. The thread did not put Hodge on top in an effort to be 'controversial'. He put him there because he belonged there.

And I agree with Roos. I'd take Ablett as well. He fits into our game plan much better than Riewoldt would. It does not mean that Ablett is a better player, just that he is more suited to our game. If Ablett joined our team it would not change our structure at all. If Riewoldt joined our team, we would have to restructure, because we would be limiting his talent if we did not.

But really, this debate is pointless, because there is a certain breed of Cats fan who think that saying "Ablett is the best" is like saying "water is wet", and anyone who says otherwise is deluded or jealous or 'trying to be controversial'.

 

[ablett09]

First off, not having Ablett at number 1 in this thread is not controversial. You may have noticed that you are pretty much the only one who has said anything about it. Most fair-minded footy fans would agree that while Ablett's stat-heavy games make him the unquestioned number 1 in fantasy leagues, his actual influence on games is not as significant as certain players from other teams. One such example, before his injury, was Riewoldt. Pavlich and Sandilands are two more. And as this thread illustrated, Hodge is yet another.

Given that Hodge was basically shut down by Nick Smith in the last game, he will probably drop out of number 1 this week. There is a fair chance Ablett will move in to number 1 as a result of that. Which should make you happy. And he deserves it, in my opinion. But last week, Hodge deserved it. Ablett did not. The thread did not put Hodge on top in an effort to be 'controversial'. He put him there because he belonged there.

And I agree with Roos. I'd take Ablett as well. He fits into our game plan much better than Riewoldt would. It does not mean that Ablett is a better player, just that he is more suited to our game. If Ablett joined our team it would not change our structure at all. If Riewoldt joined our team, we would have to restructure, because we would be limiting his talent if we did not.

But really, this debate is pointless, because there is a certain breed of Cats fan who think that saying "Ablett is the best" is like saying "water is wet", and anyone who says otherwise is deluded or jealous or 'trying to be controversial'.

Just to clarify your coach paul roos has actualy said on other occassions such as after the geelong sydney game this year that ablett is the best player in the comp

the best 2 coaches think ablett is the best in the game

as for ablett not being the most influential I agree , its impossible for a geelong midfielder to be the most influnital player in the comp.In fact its extremly hard for a kp player at geelong to be the most influnicial player in the comp .If you take most other A+ players out of their side they will tumble down the ladder , take ablett or anyone else out of geelong and they cans still win the flag.

when it comes to the question about ablett being the best in the comp he wins hands down, tell me of one area in his game were ablett struggles ?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

not sure how abletts not having much inlfuence, every 2nd week he is close to best on ground and considering he plays for geelong thats an oustanding achivement.Just last week garry lyon said ablett could easily have 5 best on grounds.

2 common quries that people have on BF about ablett is that he dosent win enough hard ball, well the stas make rubbish out of that.The other is that he handballs to much, well in todays game a handball can often be the best option and can be just as damaging as a kick.

the best 2 coaches in the game are currently paul roos and bomber thompson and both rate ablett as the best player in the game.

im sorry but ablett is just a class above the rest , i know thats boring but its a fact.He is flawles footballer

Gary Ablett playing for Geelong is double edged sword, on one hand you can say he stands out amounts stars, on other hand he has more body work and support for him than any other player in the competition.

Gary Ablett wins a ton of hard ball, don't think many would argue with that. The real question is sometimes racks up cheap touches and doesn't use his skill set to the best of his abilities, choosing to go the safe option.

IMO Paul Roo's isn't in the top two coaches in the game, he is very good and kept them up for a long time, but the fact he didn't prepare Sydney well for the future has to be taken into consideration. Kirk, Goodes, Boltons, O'Keefe, Kennelley and Bradshaw will all most likely be done in 2-3 years plus Shaw and Mattner might be winding up around then as well. Leaving Hanners, Bird, Jack, Grundy, White and few others huge shoes to fill.

Gary Ablett is almost a flawless footballer, but IMO he plays the percentages too much, allowing a few others to be more damaging with less, i.e. Goddard, Hodge, Hayes.

He is bloody great, probably taken number one this week, but to suggest he is that far ahead of the rest is rubbish, regardless of how much you want it to be the case.

 

[MVP_PaulRoos]

Just to clarify your coach paul roos has actualy said on other occassions such as after the geelong sydney game this year that ablett is the best player in the comp

the best 2 coaches think ablett is the best in the game

as for ablett not being the most influential I agree , its impossible for a geelong midfielder to be the most influnital player in the comp.In fact its extremly hard for a kp player at geelong to be the most influnicial player in the comp .If you take most other A+ players out of their side they will tumble down the ladder , take ablett or anyone else out of geelong and they cans still win the flag.

when it comes to the question about ablett being the best in the comp he wins hands down, tell me of one area in his game were ablett struggles ?

Come on now, of course Bomber is going to say that Ablett is the best. If I were a Geelong fan, I would be angry if he said anything else. And if Roos has said that Ablett is the best, and he may have, then I disagree with him. Ablett is an exceptionally bad match-up for us, and there is effectively no-one in our team that can even minimise his impact, so it wouldn't shock me if Roos did say that. However watching Ablett perform against all teams, and watching Riewoldt perform against all teams, I believe Riewoldt is better. You ask me to point out areas in Ablett's game where he struggles, and there are no real points of weakness, but I would say the same is true of Riewoldt (unless you count the propensity toward weeping a weakness, as some seem to). With two players who both have no real weaknesses, you must judge them on impact on the game or just on who looks better, and for mine, it's Riewoldt in both cases.

 

[ablett09]

Gary Ablett playing for Geelong is double edged sword, on one hand you can say he stands out amounts stars, on other hand he has more body work and support for him than any other player in the competition.

Gary Ablett wins a ton of hard ball, don't think many would argue with that. The real question is sometimes racks up cheap touches and doesn't use his skill set to the best of his abilities, choosing to go the safe option.

IMO Paul Roo's isn't in the top two coaches in the game, he is very good and kept them up for a long time, but the fact he didn't prepare Sydney well for the future has to be taken into consideration. Kirk, Goodes, Boltons, O'Keefe, Kennelley and Bradshaw will all most likely be done in 2-3 years plus Shaw and Mattner might be winding up around then as well. Leaving Hanners, Bird, Jack, Grundy, White and few others huge shoes to fill.

Gary Ablett is almost a flawless footballer, but IMO he plays the percentages too much, allowing a few others to be more damaging with less, i.e. Goddard, Hodge, Hayes.

He is bloody great, probably taken number one this week, but to suggest he is that far ahead of the rest is rubbish, regardless of how much you want it to be the case.

if the saints had 3 players more damaging with the ball than ablett they would of won the last 4 premierships be 10 wins ,0 losses this year.

you a basicly basing your argument around the fact that ablett doesnt kick the ball long as often as other players do.In todays game a short pass and a handball can be just as good as long kick.In fact it is often the best option just watch geelong play.

ablett has an ability to do something that no other player in the comp can do.He can force 4-5 of the oppostion players to come at him and as a result create lose players for his side .

 

[ablett09]

Come on now, of course Bomber is going to say that Ablett is the best. If I were a Geelong fan, I would be angry if he said anything else. And if Roos has said that Ablett is the best, and he may have, then I disagree with him. Ablett is an exceptionally bad match-up for us, and there is effectively no-one in our team that can even minimise his impact, so it wouldn't shock me if Roos did say that. However watching Ablett perform against all teams, and watching Riewoldt perform against all teams, I believe Riewoldt is better. You ask me to point out areas in Ablett's game where he struggles, and there are no real points of weakness, but I would say the same is true of Riewoldt (unless you count the propensity toward weeping a weakness, as some seem to). With two players who both have no real weaknesses, you must judge them on impact on the game or just on who looks better, and for mine, it's Riewoldt in both cases.

why did ablett get so many more votes in the MVP last year than riewoldt ?

as far as i am concernd and many agree after riweoldts pathetic grand final performance he deserves to be down graded as a player.If you dont beelive me wathc the last 7 minuites oft he grandfinal on youtube becasue what riewoldt did will shock many people.

i have watched the last 6 minuites of the GF millions of times and this was his influnece

1.about 6 minuites left saints lead by 1 point, they kick the ball in from a kick out , riweoldt spoils his own teamate who was about to take a mark, ball spills to ground chpman picks it up and passes to selwood who kicks a point

2.about 4 minuites to go,scores level, jones has the ball on the wing and kicks it long to the forward 50, riewoldt takes his eyes of the ball and taylor takes and easy mark which is how the chapman goal was created.

3.30 seconds left geelong have kick out, riewoldt decided to stand on the mark.Milburn bombs the ball out and taylor takes a mark.ball ends up down to rooke who kicks another goals giving geelong a 12 point win.

 

[MVP_PaulRoos]

IMO Paul Roo's isn't in the top two coaches in the game, he is very good and kept them up for a long time, but the fact he didn't prepare Sydney well for the future has to be taken into consideration. Kirk, Goodes, Boltons, O'Keefe, Kennelley and Bradshaw will all most likely be done in 2-3 years plus Shaw and Mattner might be winding up around then as well. Leaving Hanners, Bird, Jack, Grundy, White and few others huge shoes to fill.

I disagree with this. I feel we are exceptionally well prepared for the future. Hannebery will almost certainly win the Rising Star this year, and is a class above. Our two new ruckmen were a good exchange for Jolly and his habit of giving away annoyingly soft free kicks. White will blossom as a full forward in Bradshaw's absence, kicked 3 in our last game while Bradshaw was away. In the various AA threads going around, Grundy's name continually pops up. Smith is poised to become the new Kirk, with brutal shut down jobs on top line players. Jack has been brilliant and Bird was promising last season, has been out injured.

The only senior player who cannot be replaced is Goodes, but hey, no team can easily find a replacement for a superstar. I think Roos has been a great coach and has left us in a great position. There may be a hint of bias there, but I believe (and maybe I'm wrong) that most AFL fans would place Roos in the top 2.

 

[MVP_PaulRoos]

why did ablett get so many more votes in the MVP last year than riewoldt ?

as far as i am concernd and many agree after riweoldts pathetic grand final performance he deserves to be down graded as a player.If you dont beelive me wathc the last 7 minuites oft he grandfinal on youtube becasue what riewoldt did will shock many people.

i have watched the last 6 minuites of the GF millions of times and this was his influnece

1.about 6 minuites left saints lead by 1 point, they kick the ball in from a kick out , riweoldt spoils his own teamate who was about to take a mark, ball spills to ground chpman picks it up and passes to selwood who kicks a point

2.about 4 minuites to go,scores level, jones has the ball on the wing and kicks it long to the forward 50, riewoldt takes his eyes of the ball and taylor takes and easy mark which is how the chapman goal was created.

3.30 seconds left geelong have kick out, riewoldt decided to stand on the mark.Milburn bombs the ball out and taylor takes a mark.ball ends up down to rooke who kicks another goals giving geelong a 12 point win.

I don't think anyone would suggest that Riewoldt was impressive in the GF. He wasn't. But to suggest that poor performance detracts from him as a player, well, all I can say is that I disagree. If you can only be beaten by one player in the comp, and then only when it is wet, you are doing OK.

I am not trying to detract from Ablett. He's obviously one of the top 3 players in the AFL. But that GF is one of the only games I've seen where Riewoldt had no impact. I've seen games this season where despite racking up cheap possessions, Ablett had no real influence.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

if the saints had 3 players more damaging with the ball than ablett they would of won the last 4 premierships be 10 wins ,0 losses this year.

you a basicly basing your argument around the fact that ablett doesnt kick the ball long as often as other players do.In todays game a short pass and a handball can be just as good as long kick.In fact it is often the best option just watch geelong play.

ablett has an ability to do something that no other player in the comp can do.He can force 4-5 of the oppostion players to come at him and as a result create lose players for his side .

You just said that Geelong's strength was having so many players doing the job you would win the premiership without Ablett, yet St.Kilda have two players and you say they would be the most dominant side for years on end...

Which is it?

Your coach said On the Coach this week, that you're over possessing the ball too much in the middle of the ground and should go long two or three handballs sooner.

4-5 players go to Ablett. So a whole midfield rotation tries to tackle him at once and he is the only one who has this magical ability to draw a man. Right... A little bit of an over statement...

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I disagree with this. I feel we are exceptionally well prepared for the future. Hannebery will almost certainly win the Rising Star this year, and is a class above. Our two new ruckmen were a good exchange for Jolly and his habit of giving away annoyingly soft free kicks. White will blossom as a full forward in Bradshaw's absence, kicked 3 in our last game while Bradshaw was away. In the various AA threads going around, Grundy's name continually pops up. Smith is poised to become the new Kirk, with brutal shut down jobs on top line players. Jack has been brilliant and Bird was promising last season, has been out injured.

The only senior player who cannot be replaced is Goodes, but hey, no team can easily find a replacement for a superstar. I think Roos has been a great coach and has left us in a great position. There may be a hint of bias there, but I believe (and maybe I'm wrong) that most AFL fans would place Roos in the top 2.

I agree to an extent, I still think Roos is a fantastic coach, not currently in the top 2, he could have left you better prepared for his immediate exit.

I love Hanners, thought he was a real good chance at the start of the year, probably have Trengove just in front of him atm.

Don't really rate White just yet need to see more (don't really rate Hawthorn's backline in the slightest and only 5 touches), but I like the group of kids you have amassed, no question a lot of talent there, I think he left it a little too late to start injecting youth into the side. Probably should have gone youth in 07 when it looked obvious the realistic window had passed.

IMO you'll miss the finals this year and probably the two after (obviously basing on expected loss/growth, unexpected trades/phenomenally quick growth aside). Missing finals for that long will be a bad way to leave the side.

 

[ablett09]

You just said that Geelong's strength was having so many players doing the job you would win the premiership without Ablett, yet St.Kilda have two players and you say they would be the most dominant side for years on end...

Which is it?

Your coach said On the Coach this week, that you're over possessing the ball too much in the middle of the ground and should go long two or three handballs sooner.

4-5 players go to Ablett. So a whole midfield rotation tries to tackle him at once and he is the only one who has this magical ability to draw a man. Right... A little bit of an over statement...

95% of afl fans would have ablett in the best 3 players in the comp agree ? so if goddard and hayes were better than ablett plus rieowldt the saints would of done much better than they have done,Not sure how its a contradiction at all.

he said at times we can over possess the ball in the front half but didnt name players.The approach at geelong is to kick the ball long as a last option , ideally we try to hold on to the ball by pin point passes and handballs but at the same time do it quickly.Its fair to say we do it well.when you play like this you will always over possess the ball at times , its just a very hard game plane to pull of.

no player in the comp has the ability to constantly pull 4-5 opposition players towards him and as a result create lose players for his side.Ablett does this because of his speed,strenght,agilty ,skill and his ability to kepp his feet.This means he can run at players and dare them to take him on.hayes is to slow to do this,judd dosent have the strenght and hodge dosent have the abilty to stay on his feet.bartell and selwood are also both to slow.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

95% of afl fans would have ablett in the best 3 players in the comp agree ? so if goddard and hayes were better than ablett plus rieowldt the saints would of done much better than they have done,Not sure how its a contradiction at all.

he said at times we can over possess the ball in the front half but didnt name players.The approach at geelong is to kick the ball long as a last option , ideally we try to hold on to the ball by pin point passes and handballs but at the same time do it quickly.Its fair to say we do it well.when you play like this you will always over possess the ball at times , its just a very hard game plane to pull of.

no player in the comp has the ability to constantly pull 4-5 opposition players towards him and as a result create lose players for his side.Ablett does this because of his speed,strenght,agilty ,skill and his ability to kepp his feet.This means he can run at players and dare them to take him on.hayes is to slow to do this,judd dosent have the strenght and hodge dosent have the abilty to stay on his feet.bartell and selwood are also both to slow.

Didn't say they were better, said they were more damaging. Didn't mention Riewoldt for that matter either.

He didn't name the players, but he did say against Carlton that Gary Ablett wasn't best on ground because he over possessed and wasn't damaging enough.

I'm well aware of Geelongs game plan, I do see it executed week in week out and Essendon have practically tried to mirror it.

Don't necessarily mean going long either. Said the safe option i.e. little chip kicks down the line, would be a better player if he took more risks as he is clearly capable of executing. While he is sticking to the game plan, it is less damaging than a 60 metre Goddard pearler down the throat.

Actually thinking about drawing 4 players, its actually not that rare an occurrence, just sounds like a lot in my head, saw it happen a few times when we played against the Bulldogs and St.Kilda, when we get into a bit of a rhythm of tackling sometimes too many aggressive and go at the one man instead of guarding the options, the tacklers mistake more often than the offenders brilliance.

 

[ablett09]

Didn't say they were better, said they were more damaging. Didn't mention Riewoldt for that matter either.

He didn't name the players, but he did say against Carlton that Gary Ablett wasn't best on ground because he over possessed and wasn't damaging enough.

I'm well aware of Geelongs game plan, I do see it executed week in week out and Essendon have practically tried to mirror it.

Don't necessarily mean going long either. Said the safe option i.e. little chip kicks down the line, would be a better player if he took more risks as he is clearly capable of executing. While he is sticking to the game plan, it is less damaging than a 60 metre Goddard pearler down the throat.

Actually thinking about drawing 4 players, its actually not that rare an occurrence, just sounds like a lot in my head, saw it happen a few times when we played against the Bulldogs and St.Kilda, when we get into a bit of a rhythm of tackling sometimes too many aggressive and go at the one man instead of guarding the options, the tacklers mistake more often than the offenders brilliance.

the reallity is that in todays game their is not much room for the 60 meter long kikc due to the defensive structures that sides have in place.Sure it has its place but more often than not a short kick is the best way to go.

Another part of todays game is keeping posesion of the ball , the quicker you do it the better.Ablett has the ability to move the ball on quickly before the other side has a chance to man up which means he dosent have to take a lot of risks.taking risks will often result in tunrovers resulting in goals to the other side.

ofcourse other players at times will have more than 4 players come at them , however ablett has the abilty to do it more often and can do it when he is standing still.Essendon players will usualy be on the run when it happens but ablett can stand their and dare a player to come at him giving lose geelong players a chance to get in a good position.

 

[Donakebab]

Okay we get it, you disagree with AG's ranking system because it doesn't have Ablett as a permanent #1, now get over it and stop trashing the thread. If you object so much, go make your own top 50 thread, highly doubt it will compare.

 

[ablett09]

Okay we get it, you disagree with AG's ranking system because it doesn't have Ablett as a permanent #1, now get over it and stop trashing the thread. If you object so much, go make your own top 50 thread, highly doubt it will compare.

you are right I could make a top 50 thread but it wouldnt be as good as aussie guns thread, but you know what is even better than being number 1 in aussie guns thread ? winning brownlows and MVP'S

 

[Donakebab]

you are right I could make a top 50 thread but it wouldnt be as good as aussie guns thread, but you know what is even better than being number 1 in aussie guns thread ? winning brownlows and MVP'S

Wow when did you win them?

 

[ablett09]

Wow when did you win them?

not sure about you but I go on bf to talk about football not big not myself. Bottom line is ablett is considerd by most to be the best player int he land and continues to win just about all the individual awards

 

[Red Black and Blue]

the reallity is that in todays game their is not much room for the 60 meter long kikc due to the defensive structures that sides have in place.Sure it has its place but more often than not a short kick is the best way to go.

Another part of todays game is keeping posesion of the ball , the quicker you do it the better.Ablett has the ability to move the ball on quickly before the other side has a chance to man up which means he dosent have to take a lot of risks.taking risks will often result in tunrovers resulting in goals to the other side.

ofcourse other players at times will have more than 4 players come at them , however ablett has the abilty to do it more often and can do it when he is standing still.Essendon players will usualy be on the run when it happens but ablett can stand their and dare a player to come at him giving lose geelong players a chance to get in a good position.

Depends on the structure, but if you can consistently pull off a long kick to advantage, its obviously more damaging. He is the GSP of the AFL. Refuses to take risks.

Ablett dares them... Yes, Ablett is good at drawing a player, but there are a number of players equal to him, he is not the best at every single thing in the AFL.

 

[pendlebury_10]

great thread, keep up the good work

any consideration being given to shane tuck to make the top 50?
has had an enormous impact since coming in to the richmond side after being earlier overlooked over by coach damien hardwick, instead choosing to go with youth.

 

[AG]

I won't count games missed so harshly anymore. So Judd and Podsiadly move up overall. Normally it gets easier as the season progresses but the last 10 places on the list seem to be getting harder. 20 players could fill those spots.

Watched ESS v WBD, GEE v MEL, flicked between the Saturday night games, HAW v SYD and the second half of FREO v NTH.

 

[AG]

any consideration being given to shane tuck to make the top 50?

I'd have a few ahead of him from Richmond. Deledio moving to HB has been a very good move for him and he makes the list this week. Looks to be back to his best. Riewoldt just misses out and has had a very good month. Cotchin and Moore would be next, then Tuck.

 

[Notorious_29]

Great work again AG. Good to see Tarrant push his way in completely dominated again yesterday. Bit surprised not too see Duffiled in the team of the week, his run and composure in the backline yesterday was superb, he is in you unluckys so I'm assuming he must be getting close.