2011 MotoGP

[rednblacks]

I reckon that was probably Stoner's most convincing and dominant performance of the season and if any previous results didn't break the back of his rivals then surely that performance would have. The last race would have given Lorenzo some hope but Stoner would have sucked that right out of him in this race. Wasn't the paint and signage job on the Repsol Honda's horrendous? Thank **** that is only for that race!

I think there needs to be more manufacturers in MotoGP. Whenever you hear the preview before a race and they talk about who is going to be where next season there are very little options for the good riders. We need Suzuki to have 2 factory bikes and other manufacturers to come back into it like Kawasaki and perhaps BMW. I don't know much about Aprilla, i have only heard them mentioned in 125's and the old 250 class. What country do they originate from and are they capable of forming a MotoGP team?

 

[Simple Jack]

I don't know much about Aprilla, i have only heard them mentioned in 125's and the old 250 class. What country do they originate from and are they capable of forming a MotoGP team?

Italian, they are certainly capable and even though their CEO last year said they wouldn't be in MGP next year there are rumours they may run a CRT bike.

Problem this year is it's the last year for the 800cc formula, so why invest so much money designing a bike which is only going to be useable for one year?

There will be a substantial increse in grid numbers next year.

Some of the races this year with less than 15 starters were farcical though. You shouldn't get championship points in any form of motorsport just for showing up ffs.


imadodgyumpire no worries, and you're right CS has been as dominant as Vettel this year.

 

[rednblacks]

Italian, they are certainly capable and even though their CEO last year said they wouldn't be in MGP next year there are rumours they may run a CRT bike.

Problem this year is it's the last year for the 800cc formula, so why invest so much money designing a bike which is only going to be useable for one year?

There will be a substantial increse in grid numbers next year.

Some of the races this year with less than 15 starters were farcical though. You shouldn't get championship points in any form of motorsport just for showing up ffs.

True and i hope there will be more numbers next year and a couple more manufacturers or even some sponsor owned teams like Red Bull in F1? But we still need the field to be of high quality and not just half a dozen Japanese riders given a seat just for the sake of increasing numbers.

What do you guys think of MotoGP2 since it took over from the 250cc class? Is that going to produce the Stoners, Lorenzo's, Pedrosa's, Rossi's of the future like the old 250cc class did for so long? I watched the last dozen laps or so the other night but i don't usually watch it. Is it a stepping stone for up and coming young riders or is it a "B" class event for those that can't cut it with the big boys in MotoGP?

What are the specs of MotoGP2? Are they 500cc or what?

 

[Simple Jack]

True and i hope there will be more numbers next year and a couple more manufacturers or even some sponsor owned teams like Red Bull in F1? But we still need the field to be of high quality and not just half a dozen Japanese riders given a seat just for the sake of increasing numbers.

What do you guys think of MotoGP2 since it took over from the 250cc class? Is that going to produce the Stoners, Lorenzo's, Pedrosa's, Rossi's of the future like the old 250cc class did for so long? I watched the last dozen laps or so the other night but i don't usually watch it. Is it a stepping stone for up and coming young riders or is it a "B" class event for those that can't cut it with the big boys in MotoGP?

What are the specs of MotoGP2? Are they 500cc or what?

I watch 125cc, Moto2 for the racing, it is spectacular, every single race. MotoGP races are a genuine borefest compared to the lower formulas, but you are seeing the best against the best on near impossible to ride prototypes which has a special appeal.

Talent is talent and the best in Moto2 will get a MotoGP ride and eventually show their talent (Marquez/Bradl in Moto2 and Vinales in 125cc look like good prospects for the future) but apparently (obviously I haven't ridden in M2/MGP so I can't say for sure) the gap between the two is much much bigger than it used to be so the Moto2 riders will struggle for a while until they get to grips with the MGP machines.

So it's both really, definately a stepping stone but also a place for those who can't quite cut it.

Moto2 is a 600cc four stroke formula. Engine is a spec Honda, but chassis is free design and there are a few different chassis designers.

 

[Klyntonius]

Italian, they are certainly capable and even though their CEO last year said they wouldn't be in MGP next year there are rumours they may run a CRT bike.

There will be a substantial increse in grid numbers next year.

Some of the races this year with less than 15 starters were farcical though. You shouldn't get championship points in any form of motorsport just for showing up ffs.

Aprilia can't run a CRT bike themselves, they would fall under the factory rule and be limited to 6 engines and 21 litres of fuel like the factory bikes rather than 9 engines and 24 litres (I think) for the claiming rule bikes. Private teams can use an Aprilia RSV4 engine and hotrod it for their custom designed frame but Aprilia of all the manufacturers seems to be under significant paranoia and scrutiny that they would run a de-facto factory team using a private team as a front while they supply private engines. Thus, I'm not sure that any of the proposed claiming rule teams are using Aprilia engines despite it being theoretically the most suitable.

I watch 125cc, Moto2 for the racing, it is spectacular, every single race. MotoGP races are a genuine borefest compared to the lower formulas, but you are seeing the best against the best on near impossible to ride prototypes which has a special appeal.

Talent is talent and the best in Moto2 will get a MotoGP ride and eventually show their talent (Marquez/Bradl in Moto2 and Vinales in 125cc look like good prospects for the future) but apparently (obviously I haven't ridden in M2/MGP so I can't say for sure) the gap between the two is much much bigger than it used to be so the Moto2 riders will struggle for a while until they get to grips with the MGP machines.

So it's both really, definately a stepping stone but also a place for those who can't quite cut it.

Moto2 is a 600cc four stroke formula. Engine is a spec Honda, but chassis is free design and there are a few different chassis designers.

Couldn't agree more, especially on the talent part. People said for years that riders couldn't come to MotoGP from World Superbike because guys like Edwards, Bayliss, Vermeulen, Toseland and Xaus had failed to reach the top but Spies has proven that it's about talent and not previous experience (though that helps get them up to speed quicker).

 

[Simple Jack]

Yes Klyntonius, you're absolutely right. Obviously they are a manufacurer so can't run CRT, how silly of me.

What are you're thoughts on CRT?

Personally I think it's good that there can be far more teams on the grid but I also think we may see the CRT teams smash the satellite teams next year which is potentially going to push them in a more 'modified production' direction.

We already have WSBK, MGP should be for strictly prototypes imo.

 

[Klyntonius]

Hmmm, my thoughts on CRT. Well, I think WCM would probably be pretty pissed off it wasn't introduced about 10 years ago! Seriously though, CRT is going nowhere unless a spec ecu is introduced. The Suter CRT project is using a BMW S1000RR motor (which is a beast) but it's the electronics already holding BMW back in WSB, let alone MotoGP.

For me, MotoGP needs to pare back the electronics and open up the engine regs. Run anything within the allowable displacement and have a more sensible 24 litres of fuel. Preferably not hotted-up production engines but prototype engines that are allowed to have production elements would be good, just like WCM did in the first couple of years of MotoGP.

WSB needs to be dumbed down too, more production based like the old days. They're too much like prototypes now, too expensive and the grid is starting to dwindle (back to 22 bikes this season, Yamaha have announced they are pulling our next year).

As you say, MotoGP is prototypes, Superbikes are modified production. Simple.

 

[rednblacks]

Hmmm, my thoughts on CRT. Well, I think WCM would probably be pretty pissed off it wasn't introduced about 10 years ago! Seriously though, CRT is going nowhere unless a spec ecu is introduced. The Suter CRT project is using a BMW S1000RR motor (which is a beast) but it's the electronics already holding BMW back in WSB, let alone MotoGP.

For me, MotoGP needs to pare back the electronics and open up the engine regs. Run anything within the allowable displacement and have a more sensible 24 litres of fuel. Preferably not hotted-up production engines but prototype engines that are allowed to have production elements would be good, just like WCM did in the first couple of years of MotoGP.

WSB needs to be dumbed down too, more production based like the old days. They're too much like prototypes now, too expensive and the grid is starting to dwindle (back to 22 bikes this season, Yamaha have announced they are pulling our next year).

As you say, MotoGP is prototypes, Superbikes are modified production. Simple.

You blokes are a wealth of knowledge, often wondered what the difference was and that answers that beautifully. What cc are Superbikes Klynt?

Also what does CRT and WCM stand for?

 

[Klyntonius]

Cheers rednblacks.

Superbikes allow a displacement of 1000cc's for multi cylinder machines or 1200cc's for twin cylinder bikes. I'm sure they'd allow 1100cc's for triples if anyone made one (come on Triumph, get your arse into gear!).

CRT stands for Claiming Rule Teams. Basically, private teams can build a racebike with a prototype frame and an engine that has production elements to it to try to promote some cheaper racing in the class. They also get an extra 3 litres of fuel and twice as many engines to use as the prototype machines (6 to 12). To prevent manufacturers getting in the back door and running a 'shadow' factory team with secret direct factory support, a CRT's engine can be bought by one of the factories for a set fee.

WCM was a grand prix team, in fact they were the Red Bull team that Garry McCoy raced for. When the four-stroke MotoGP class replaced the old two-stroke 500's, WCM built their own bike but were disallowed from the competition for a while as it was deemed the engine they developed wasn't a prototype because it had Yamaha R1 heads(? I think) or something like that (I'm not a mechanics arseh*le so engine technicalities get a bit lost on me!) but the reality was that the offending parts weren't from an R1 but had a passing resemblence with some minor inspiration from the Yamaha machine. Now they can could run an entire R1 engine under CRT as the Forward Racing Team will do with Colin Edwards next year.

 

[Simple Jack]

I was just about to have a go but Klyntonius has explained it far better than I think I could have.

Because of CRT we are going to have vastly improved grid numbers next year (6 CRT teams I think?) which is good, but what I was saying I don't like is that a CRT bike is starting to move from pure prototype to modified production which is what WSBK is.

Even though WSBK is supposed to be based on production bikes, it's pretty much a load of shit. They are proper racing machines (much like a V8SC is not a real Commodore/Falcon).

It sort of goes.

WSBK>Modified production engine/production chassis.
CRT>Modified production engine/prototype chassis.
MSMA or 'normal' MotoGP bike>Prototype engine/prototype chassis.

So for me it sort of blurs the line between what MotoGP and WSBK are meant to be.

 

[Klyntonius]

Good start for Casey at Motegi (where no-one was going to race because of the radiation...)

Pos No. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Previous
1 26 Dani PEDROSA HONDA 1'46.790
2 27 Casey STONER HONDA 1'46.844 0.054 0.054
3 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO HONDA 1'46.952 0.162 0.108
4 58 Marco SIMONCELLI HONDA 1'47.188 0.398 0.236
5 1 Jorge LORENZO YAMAHA 1'47.310 0.520 0.122
6 69 Nicky HAYDEN DUCATI 1'47.381 0.591 0.071
7 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA HONDA 1'47.785 0.995 0.404
8 46 Valentino ROSSI DUCATI 1'47.975 1.185 0.190
9 8 Hector BARBERA DUCATI 1'48.055 1.265 0.080
10 5 Colin EDWARDS YAMAHA 1'48.076 1.286 0.021
11 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SUZUKI 1'48.097 1.307 0.021
12 14 Randy DE PUNIET DUCATI 1'48.374 1.584 0.277
13 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW YAMAHA 1'48.379 1.589 0.005
14 11 Ben SPIES YAMAHA 1'48.567 1.777 0.188
15 24 Toni ELIAS HONDA 1'48.743 1.953 0.176
16 17 Karel ABRAHAM DUCATI 1'49.305 2.515 0.562
17 64 Kousuke AKIYOSHI HONDA 1'49.464 2.674 0.159
18 72 Shinichi ITO HONDA 1'49.673 2.883 0.209
19 6 Damian CUDLIN DUCATI 1'51.349 4.559 1.676

Also, congratulations and good luck to Australian journeyman, Damien Cudlin, on getting the call-up to replace Loris Capirossi for Motegi (and Phillip Island?) after Loris injured his shoulder at Aragon. Tough gig for Damo, his debut on a proper MotoGP bike (he's been one of the chief testers of the Suter CRT machine) coming on the most difficult bike to ride on the grid at a track he's never been to before.

Because of CRT we are going to have vastly improved grid numbers next year (6 CRT teams I think?) which is good, but what I was saying I don't like is that a CRT bike is starting to move from pure prototype to modified production which is what WSBK is.

Even though WSBK is supposed to be based on production bikes, it's pretty much a load of shit. They are proper racing machines (much like a V8SC is not a real Commodore/Falcon).

It sort of goes.

WSBK>Modified production engine/production chassis.
CRT>Modified production engine/prototype chassis.
MSMA or 'normal' MotoGP bike>Prototype engine/prototype chassis.

So for me it sort of blurs the line between what MotoGP and WSBK are meant to be.

I agree with you Jack. Aside from hearing of constant new design swingarm designs for some of the bikes, the concern about Superbike, for me, came when I heard that Michel Fabrizio preferred WSB spec Öhlins forks on his factory 1098 whereas Nori Haga liked the MotoGP spec forks. No superbike should have grand prix spec suspension! WSB is in serious danger of outgrowing itself and becoming too expensive again like it did in the late 90's. Wind their spec back and allow more open MotoGP engine specs and both series should prosper.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

3:00pm, MotoGP qualifying, can't wait! Who else will be watching?

 

[Klyntonius]

There's a good chance I'll be flicking over. 'Specially seeing Stoner fastest this morning.

 

[Simple Jack]

I would have loved to see it but I just couldn't go past the opportunity to see Collingwood lose a Grand Final.

 

[NSWCROW]

Live stream on ONE ????

 

[JUBJUB]

Holy crap Zarco won a race
Good save from Stoner to not fall in the dirt and end up finishing 3rd,only losing 4pts to Jorge.

 

[Simple Jack]

Thoroughly stoked with Zarcos win. And with Ianonne saluting I was hopeful of going a whole round without the Spanish anthem. Bloody Casey

Oh well. The championship at PI is still a possibility.

 

[Klyntonius]

And finally the Phillip Island round of MotoGP is here. I'm riding down tomorrow and stayin down there for the weekend and can't wait. I don't really care how close the race is, I just love being there and watching these blokes ride in a manner I can only dream about, particularly Stoner who's as exciting to watch on his own as seeing any Moto2 dogfight. Anyway, I'll give a brief rundown of the MotoGP protagonists for the race.

Casey Stoner - 2011 champion elect and has won the last four races at Phillip Island, it's honestly very difficult to see him being beaten at his home circuit. He can take the title if he wins and Lorenzo finishes 4th or worse though this seems unlikely. Would make a nice birthday present for him though.

Dani Pedrosa - has returned to full fitness and full speed. Will be buoyed after last rounds win buried the demons from Motegi 2010 and a confident Dani should be very competitive. I'd be surprised if he's not on the podium.

Andrea Dovizioso - probably the most determined rider in the paddock at the moment after Honda chose Simoncelli over him for a factory contract in 2012. He's signed for Tech3 Yamaha now for next season and will be keen to show Honda they've made a mistake. A chance for the podium

Marco Simoncelli - now he has a contract for a Factory Honda in 2012, I'm expecting to see the return of a more aggressive Simoncelli til the end of the season. If it is coupled with his seemingly new found maturity of the second half of this season, he could well be a smokey for at least a podium.

Hiroshi Aoyama - the quiet Japanese has had a quiet year, racking up consistent solid finishes to be vying with Colin Edwards for the top genuine privateer. The Island isn't one of his happier hunting grounds so a top 10 is probably all he can hope for.

Toni Elias - 2010's Toni the Tiger has become Toni the Turtle in 2011. His lack of speed this year isn't for lack of trying but his riding style is so distinct that it just doesn't gel with the Bridgestone tires. Likely off to World Superbike in 2012, Elias will probably get a blinder start then fade through the pack or crash trying to keep up.

Jorge Lorenzo - he's hanging on in there for the title race against all hope. Needs to not finish on the podium for Stoner to take the title here but he looks too strong for that. Also, Phillip Island is a circuit that flows so it hides the Yamahas biggest weakness - it's lack of acceleration.

Ben Spies - The Ben has had a slightly disappointing year given the high expectation placed on him to elevate to 'alien' status. However, it must be said that he's had more than his fair share of bad luck to hold him back. Phillip Island is a track that suits him and he's had good results there in the past. A strong chance for a podium - if he's allowed to beat his teammate...

Colin Edwards - ol' Col is nearing the conclusion of his career, heading to a CRT bike next year. Still pretty competitive, if he has a day out he could sneak a top 6 result.

Cal Crutchlow - started the year very impressively but started craching - a lot - and seems to have lost a lot of confidence. Will be eagerly awaiting next years switch to 1000cc machines and softer Bridgestones. I'd expect scraping into the top 10 to be about his limit though it is at least a circuit he knows.

Alvaro Bautista - Alvaro has been quietly impressive this year, improving steadily as the year progressed after busting his femur at the opening round in Qatar. Through the bike away last round trying for a top 5 finish, he'll be pushed to be that far up the field as the Suzuki traditionally struggles at the seaside circuit.

Valentino Rossi - the biggest name of all has been the biggest letdown of all in 2011. The marketing dream of the millenium has become a nightmare. After some very public potshots at his rivals before the season, Rossi has failed to fire at all. Despite multiple heavy revisions to his Desmosedici, all have failed to result in any serious improvement. Made some ergonomic changes to his bike before the last race (similar to Stoner 2010) and a new aluminium frame saw him fourth fastest in warmup at Motegi, will be interesting to see if it translates into genuine improvement of flash-in-the-pan. The successes of 2001-2005 in Australia are a distant memory and I expect him to finish his now customary 7th place.

Nicky Hayden - Nicky has struggled through 2011 manfully and without complaint (publicly). Phillip Island is one of his strongest tracks and being only 16 points behind Rossi in the standings, he'd love nothing more than to beat his teammate to finish top Ducati man for the year.

Loris Capirossi - The 2011 Phillip Island Grand Prix will mark the last time we see Capirossi race down under and the third last race in Grand Prix anywhere. What has been a very successful career is reaching a somewhat sorry end of injury and difficult machinery. Will sadly be a likely tailgunner of the field.

Randy DePuniet - unfortunately the theories of Randy's riding style suiting the Ducati have come to nought. He will be desperate to finish the year competitively and win his seat back at LCR Honda. Probably hover somewhere around 10th place.

Karel Abraham - many questioned the inclusion of Karel Abraham in this years MotoGP lineup. After all, the dude has only had two podiums with one win in the feeder classes and was getting a ride in a team funded by Daddy. However, Karel has been mildly competitive on a difficult bike with a rookie team. If things go real well, a top 10 is not out of the question.

Damien Cudlin - finally we have Damo. An Australian motorcycle racing journeyman, Cudlin got the surprise call up to replace the injured Capirossi at Motegi last round. He rode a respectable pace but crashed out racing with Honda test rider Akiyoshi. This time he's gets the opportunity to race on the back of Hector Barbera's misfortune (busted collarbone). With a weekends riding of the Ducati under his belt, racing at home at a familiar circuit he should be more competitive and will hopefully be able to at least have a bit of a battle with someone else at the back of the field.

So there ya have it. Hopefully the weekend is fine (for my sake as much as anything!) and the racing close. My MotoGP top 5 is as follows:
1. Stoner
2. Pedrosa
3. Dovizioso
4. Lorenzo
5. Spies

Okay, so I'm actually expecting Lorenzo to come second and Dovizioso fifth but that doesn't result in a home town championship for Casey!

So I'm about all typed out now to bother much with Moto2 and 125. Am really hoping that Ant Wests improvement since Warren Willing came on board will continue and he could push for a top 5 and I'd love to see Bradl answer the challenge and win, taking back the championship lead. Hopefully Jack Miller has a good race in 125 and Arthur Sissis too if he gets a gig and a right ol' fist fight battle up front.

Can't wait!

 

[CatTricks]

if anyone is interested in these let me know;


http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=881718

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Cheers

 

[mattys123]

Qualifying about to start, seems as though they might get it in without any rain around.

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml#skip

I actually prefer this type of qualifying to F1, a full hour to see who has some race pace as they do plenty of laps, and then the final sprint for the line in the last few minutes.

 

[mattys123]

Stoner gets pole, almost half a second quicker then Lorenzo in 2nd, and was consistently breaking the 1.30 barrier, which no one else could get near.

If Stoner stays upright, he wins, although I can't see Lorenzo not finishing at least 2nd or 3rd, which means the title won't be sealed this week.

5 in a row for Casey tomorrow at Phillip Island.

 

[mattys123]

Rumour going around that Lorenzo has pulled out of the race due to a hand injury suffered this morning.

If so, Casey will seal his second world title at the Island this arvo.

Edit: Update on Lorenzo, apparently he severed the tip off a finger when he went down this morning, and they even had trouble finding the severed part.

 

[Simple Jack]

Rumour going around that Lorenzo has pulled out of the race due to a hand injury suffered this morning.

If so, Casey will seal his second world title at the Island this arvo.

Edit: Update on Lorenzo, apparently he severed the tip off a finger when he went down this morning, and they even had trouble finding the severed part.

Apparently lost his left ring finger from the knuckle down. The marshals had to find the glove and bring it to the medical centre because it still had the finger in it.

I'd rather Casey not win the c'ship today and Jorge race than the other way around

 

[mattys123]

I'd rather Casey not win the c'ship today and Jorge race than the other way around

Yeah it's not the way I wanted to see Casey win, I was hoping Lorenzo just had a broken hand or something that he could probably ride with after this weekend.

Casey in the medical centre visiting him at the moment, great to see.

 

[Simple Jack]

And also because Jorge is a certifiable gun.

The overall standard takes a massive hit when he doesn't race.

At least Casey can almost certainly be crowned at home.