Preview 2012 AFL Draft

[woofles]

I don't think we would go for the 17yo mini draft, I would say the club would be worried about the drop in crowd numbers and probably membership again next year, so having to wait an extra year before this kid was eligible to play might be a deciding factor, hope it isn't but very afraid it will be.

Even if the kid is a potential number one draft pick and the sort of player who puts bums on seats? This kid is that good in my mind I think the wait is well worth it...This is all assuming a deal could be done mind you

 

[doggies ftw]

Even if the kid is a potential number one draft pick and the sort of player who puts bums on seats? This kid is that good in my mind I think the wait is well worth it...This is all assuming a deal could be done mind you

And after a full season in an AFL environment you would think by 2014 (even considering how skinny he is) he would be much more developed.

The kid is obviously a gun, its just great to watch him play, and yeah in a few years he definitely would bring people to the game to see him but the biggest risk I see is would he be okay in leaving WA, he'd only be 16 wouldn't he?

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Having had a bit of time on my hands this year Ive been able to watch a lot of the prospects first hand and my big draft crush is Sam Mayes. Was CHF All Australian as a bottom ager, moved into the midfield this year and hasnt looked back. He's one of those tallish mids, would measure at about the 188 at a guess, really quick (not quite Griffen but probably Dale Thomas type pace), absolutely lovely skills, massively polished, beautiful mark of the footy and will only find more of it as he plays more time in the middle. If I had a choice between Garlett and Mayes I wouldnt hesitate in going Mayes every day of the week.

I like Mayes a lot also, wouldn't be surprised if we picked him up and would be happy if we picked him up. Watching him reminded me a lot of Griffen in the comps. Liked him a lot!

 

[woofles]

And after a full season in an AFL environment you would think by 2014 (even considering how skinny he is) he would be much more developed.

The kid is obviously a gun, its just great to watch him play, and yeah in a few years he definitely would bring people to the game to see him but the biggest risk I see is would he be okay in leaving WA, he'd only be 16 wouldn't he?

If worst comes to worst we put him on a program, keep him closely monitored and he spends his last year in WA before coming over for his first year in the big time

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

If worst comes to worst we put him on a program, keep him closely monitored and he spends his last year in WA before coming over for his first year in the big time

Makes sense. The club would encourage him to finish school, so he can stay at home, finish school, play local footy, and come over in the holidays to attend pre season and fitness development with the club. I guess the other positive thing in this year's draft is that we will have two, so we can afford to take him, while taking a player like Mayes who is ready to play.

 

[woofles]

Makes sense. The club would encourage him to finish school, so he can stay at home, finish school, play local footy, and come over in the holidays to attend pre season and fitness development with the club. I guess the other positive thing in this year's draft is that we will have two, so we can afford to take him, while taking a player like Mayes who is ready to play.

I think thats the thing, losing Ward has given us options. The club should be doing all it can to secure the two kids who: a/ Have the most talent and b/ fit what we need. If that means waiting a year for Martin so be it. In my mind hes probably the most talented guy we could potentially get and fits our needs perfectly. In saying that Mayes, Toumpas, Garlett and Stringer are no slouches...but I dont think they are on Martins talent level either.

 

[adam10]

Libba and Wallis I both see as A midfielder, not A plus.

I think a lot of supporters are here are forgetting that they are kids playing in the midfield agasint men and holding their own. The match against Geelong earlier in the year they basically went almost head to head with Bartel and Selwood and really matched it with the best. I wasn't the biggest Wallis fan at season start but he has an amazing work ethic and loves a contest. He's skills sometimes let him down but that's something he will improve in the up-coming years.

Libba has this awesome ability to sneak out the handballs out of packs that sets a player free, but we don't have enough or any for that matter players with elite skills to hit up a forward after there released.

Both got a huge future at this club and the perfect replacements for Boyd + Cross in the coming years.

 

[adam10]

If were able to land Garlett and Mayes with our first two picks.

Big tick and big move forward.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Watson and Mitchell are both elite at the clearances. Both have excellent vision and awareness. They also have the class and composure to use the ball well. This is why they are elite players.

I see Mitch as being good in these areas rather then 'elite'. I hope I am proven wrong. I'm at least confident he will be a good player and a great leader.

Sheedy wanted to trade Jobe. Saw him as a very ordinary player as a youngster...

If it took Jobe a few years to become 'elite', couldn't we give Mitch the same?
Pretty hard call comparing Wallis to Watson at this stage.

 

[bulldogsman]

Jack Martin is my number 1 choice this year, he has the potential to be the best in the competition. Supporters won't mind the wait.

Toumpas, Mayes and Plowman are nice players for our 1st round pick.

I like Rory Atkins at our 2nd pick. He's played some big games at TAC cup level, has potential to go much higher then that.

 

[woofles]

Jack Martin is my number 1 choice this year, he has the potential to be the best in the competition. Supporters won't mind the wait.

Toumpas, Mayes and Plowman are nice players for our 1st round pick.

I like Rory Atkins at our 2nd pick. He's played some big games at TAC cup level, has potential to go much higher then that.

Cant wait to see Plowmans measurements at draft camp, 191 cm key defender scares me a bit and I wouldnt want to be using an early first rounder on a rebounding half back

 

[bulldogsman]

Cant wait to see Plowmans measurements at draft camp, 191 cm key defender scares me a bit and I wouldnt want to be using an early first rounder on a rebounding half back

If he is 191cm, he competes well on the big guys. It's not ideal, but he's still able. He's probably better suited to a Dustin Fletcher role anyway, where he can intercept marks and set up play from defence.

 

[StringyDog]

Over 40 % of our current list is defenders, big reason we have no midfield depth at moment due to unbalanced list, if we use our first rounder on another defender only a year after taking 3 defenders when we badly need top line class midfielders I will be spitting chips.

 

[bulldogsman]

Over 40 % of our current list is defenders, big reason we have no midfield depth at moment due to unbalanced list, if we use our first rounder on another defender only a year after taking 3 defenders when we badly need top line class midfielders I will be spitting chips.

Normally I would agree with you as my number 1 priority is mids also, but I'd be happy to take a unique attacking defender that I rate as a top 5 pick if need be. I'd prefer to take Martin, Mayes and Toumpas over him. If they are gone, Plowman I feel would be just too good to pass up and we really lack any sort of attacking options in the back half anyway. After Lake, Murphy and Hargrave are gone, I question who's going to step up.

By the way, I'd delist 4 defenders this year, possibly 5.

 

[woofles]

Normally I would agree with you as my number 1 priority is mids also, but I'd be happy to take a unique attacking defender that I rate as a top 5 pick if need be. I'd prefer to take Martin, Mayes and Toumpas over him. If they are gone, Plowman I feel would be just too good to pass up and we really lack any sort of attacking options in the back half anyway. After Lake, Murphy and Hargrave are gone, I question who's going to step up.

By the way, I'd delist 4 defenders this year, possibly 5.

Just out of interest Mulligan, and Gilbee are gone, who are the other two? Hargrave? Austin? Markovic? Vespremi? Not that I disagree, just interested to see the four

 

[dogwatch]

As long as we don't do any silly left-field picks or project players we should get a great result out of the draft. From what I've read (and at this stage of the season) I see it panning out like this:

We will finish 14th at absolute tops, but more likely 15th. Highly unlikely we will be 16th, Melbourne will almost certainly manage to finish below us. So we will have either picks 5 & 6 or 6 & 7.

We need to make sure we focus on elite midfielders with pace and excellent kicking skills.

The standout draftees from discussions & forums have probably been:
Midfielders - Whitfield, Toumpas, Garlett, Viney, Stringer, Mayes, Wines, Vlastuin, Menzel
Rucks - Grundy
KPPs - Daniher, Shaw, Plowman

Let's assume the worst scenario (and no trading for the U17 minidraft):
We finish 14th and get picks 6&7. Essendon get Daniher as a f/s (no brainer), no-one before us bids for Viney so Melbourne get him as a f/s with their 3rd pick. Then Whitfield, Toumpas, Garlett, Stringer and Mayes all get picked up in selections 1-5. We still have Wines, Menzel, Vlastuin, Shaw, Plowman and Grundy to choose from. Grundy would be a conundrum as he is an outstanding ruck prospect but we are unusually well placed for rucks ATM. We'd probably go Wines and then Menzel or Grundy, but in reality Grundy would almost certainly be gone by pick 6 and so we'd get whichever one of the earlier 5 wasn't picked. Any of those plus Wines would be a great result.

Now the most likely scenario:
We finish 15th and get picks 5&6. The first 4 picks are Whitfield, Grundy, Toumpas and Wines. (Viney still a a f/s with Melbourne's 3rd selection). We get to choose two out of Stringer, Mayes, Garlett, etc. I'd be delighted with that. (I really like what I have read of Mayes)

And the best scenario:
We finish 16th (Melbourne throw caution to the wind and win 3 of their last few games!) so we have picks 3&4. Whitfield and Grundy go with the first two picks. We now have the choice of any 2 out of Toumpas, Garlett, Stringer, Mayes, Wines, etc. Fantastic!

 

[Interloper]

 

[Smiley Boy]

Watson and Mitchell are both elite at the clearances. Both have excellent vision and awareness. They also have the class and composure to use the ball well. This is why they are elite players.

I see Mitch as being good in these areas rather then 'elite'. I hope I am proven wrong. I'm at least confident he will be a good player and a great leader.

Bit hard to judge that in their second season wouldn't you think? Didnt think Boyd, Cross or even Jobe Watson had the influence Wallis or Libba have had in their second seasons!

 

[Slattery_20]

Sheedy wanted to trade Jobe. Saw him as a very ordinary player as a youngster...

If it took Jobe a few years to become 'elite', couldn't we give Mitch the same?
Pretty hard call comparing Wallis to Watson at this stage.

Totally different scenario. Watson was carrying waaay too much as a kid. 2006 he actually got fit; after being drafted in 2002. His kicking & defensive running probably took until about 2008-09ish, and really only in the last 18 months has he learnt when to push forward and attack.

Libba, at the same age, is a far far better footballer. Of course that doesn't necessarily predict, one way or the other, but it's true anyway.

 

[josh the gent]

The standout draftees from discussions & forums have probably been:
Midfielders - Whitfield, Toumpas, Garlett, Viney, Stringer, Mayes, Wines, Vlastuin, Menzel
Rucks - Grundy
KPPs - Daniher, Shaw, Plowman

Let's assume the worst scenario (and no trading for the U17 minidraft):
We finish 14th and get picks 6&7. Essendon get Daniher as a f/s (no brainer), no-one before us bids for Viney so Melbourne get him as a f/s with their 3rd pick. Then Whitfield, Toumpas, Garlett, Stringer and Mayes all get picked up in selections 1-5. We still have Wines, Menzel, Vlastuin, Shaw, Plowman and Grundy to choose from. Grundy would be a conundrum as he is an outstanding ruck prospect but we are unusually well placed for rucks ATM. We'd probably go Wines and then Menzel or Grundy, but in reality Grundy would almost certainly be gone by pick 6 and so we'd get whichever one of the earlier 5 wasn't picked. Any of those plus Wines would be a great result.

Now the most likely scenario:
We finish 15th and get picks 5&6. The first 4 picks are Whitfield, Grundy, Toumpas and Wines. (Viney still a a f/s with Melbourne's 3rd selection). We get to choose two out of Stringer, Mayes, Garlett, etc. I'd be delighted with that. (I really like what I have read of Mayes)

And the best scenario:
We finish 16th (Melbourne throw caution to the wind and win 3 of their last few games!) so we have picks 3&4. Whitfield and Grundy go with the first two picks. We now have the choice of any 2 out of Toumpas, Garlett, Stringer, Mayes, Wines, etc. Fantastic!

How I see it panning out is:

Remaining 2012 wins:
WB - 0
PA - 1 (vs GWS)
Melb - 3 (vs PA, GWS, GC).
Each of the teams finish with 5 wins, separated by percentage.

Ladder
2. Adelaide
.....
14. Port
15. WB
16. Melb
17. GC
18. GWS

Draft
1. GWS - Lachie Whitfield
2. GC - Jack Viney. They won't be able to take him though as Melb will nominate F/S. GC will then take Jimmy Toumpas.
3. Melb - Jack Viney.
4. Melb - Sam Mayes - just having a guess here, but believe they will take a mid.
5. WB - Jake Stringer.
6. WB - ?

On that basis, I actually wouldn't mind us going for a trade into the mini-draft. It could work like this:

We give: Pick 6.
We get: Mini-draft selection 2, pick 21 (this being GWS's held Adelaide Compo Pick).

We should also negotiate a swap of our second & third round picks with GWS (i.e. moving 3 places up the order in the second & third round) as part of the deal. That trade wouldn't get us pick 1, but should be ample for pick 2) - I think Adelaide swapped pick 10 for MD pick 2 last year.

This mini-draft pick 2 would more than likely be for Jack Martin (the gun CHF prospect Jesse Hogan is likely to be the mini-draft pick 1).

That basically gives us arguably the two players with the highest potential in the 2012 & 2013 draft years (Stringer and Martin), along with 4 more picks.

I think the risk with Martin is that he will require some pretty careful management in his first couple of years (his father is apparently a bit of an issue), but feel comfortable with players like that with McCartney at the helm.

The risk with Stringer is his return from a badly broken leg, prior to his injury he could seriously have been pick 1. He's had some good/some bad games this year, hence the risk and why he should slip to pick 5.

Both are outstanding prospects.

Remaining picks in the draft will end up being:
Pick 21
Pick 23
Pick 42
Pick 46 (Sam Reid compo)

Thoughts?

 

[Smiley Boy]

How I see it panning out is:

Remaining 2012 wins:
WB - 0
PA - 1 (vs GWS)
Melb - 3 (vs PA, GWS, GC).
Each of the teams finish with 5 wins, separated by percentage.

Ladder
2. Adelaide
.....
14. Port
15. WB
16. Melb
17. GC
18. GWS

Draft
1. GWS - Lachie Whitfield
2. GC - Jack Viney. They won't be able to take him though as Melb will nominate F/S. GC will then take Jimmy Toumpas.
3. Melb - Jack Viney.
4. Melb - Sam Mayes - just having a guess here, but believe they will take a mid.
5. WB - Jake Stringer.
6. WB - ?

On that basis, I actually wouldn't mind us going for a trade into the mini-draft. It could work like this:

We give: Pick 6.
We get: Mini-draft selection 2, pick 21 (this being GWS's held Adelaide Compo Pick).

We should also negotiate a swap of our second & third round picks with GWS (i.e. moving 3 places up the order in the second & third round) as part of the deal. That trade wouldn't get us pick 1, but should be ample for pick 2) - I think Adelaide swapped pick 10 for MD pick 2 last year.

This mini-draft pick 2 would more than likely be for Jack Martin (the gun CHF prospect Jesse Hogan is likely to be the mini-draft pick 1).

That basically gives us arguably the two players with the highest potential in the 2012 & 2013 draft years (Stringer and Martin), along with 4 more picks.

I think the risk with Martin is that he will require some pretty careful management in his first couple of years (his father is apparently a bit of an issue), but feel comfortable with players like that with McCartney at the helm.

The risk with Stringer is his return from a badly broken leg, prior to his injury he could seriously have been pick 1. He's had some good/some bad games this year, hence the risk and why he should slip to pick 5.

Both are outstanding prospects.

Remaining picks in the draft will end up being:
Pick 21
Pick 23
Pick 42
Pick 46 (Sam Reid compo)

Thoughts?

What about Grundy? Would have thought GC & GWS need Ruckmen so surely they would take the best ruckman in the draft?

 

[josh the gent]

What about Grundy? Would have thought GC & GWS need Ruckmen so surely they would take the best ruckman in the draft?

True, but the word on all the phantom drafts is that Whitfield is consensus number 1 pick.

I think if GWS finish 17th, they'll take Grundy at 2, but if it's Gold Coast, they will get another mid (which is good for us cos I believe their number 1 option after Whitfield is Viney).

Depends if Gold Coast beat GWS in their remaining match - it's in Queensland and I reckon the Gold Coast will take the chocolates, and have pick 2.

It also helps us because GWS will be keen to get our pick 6 before Port Adelaide, so they can get their mitts on Grundy (at pick 6)...

Who knows though - it's all speculation!!!

 

[Dale4captain]

How I see it panning out is:

Remaining 2012 wins:
WB - 0
PA - 1 (vs GWS)
Melb - 3 (vs PA, GWS, GC).
Each of the teams finish with 5 wins, separated by percentage.

Ladder
2. Adelaide
.....
14. Port
15. WB
16. Melb
17. GC
18. GWS

Draft
1. GWS - Lachie Whitfield
2. GC - Jack Viney. They won't be able to take him though as Melb will nominate F/S. GC will then take Jimmy Toumpas.
3. Melb - Jack Viney.
4. Melb - Sam Mayes - just having a guess here, but believe they will take a mid.
5. WB - Jake Stringer.
6. WB - ?

On that basis, I actually wouldn't mind us going for a trade into the mini-draft. It could work like this:

We give: Pick 6.
We get: Mini-draft selection 2, pick 21 (this being GWS's held Adelaide Compo Pick).

We should also negotiate a swap of our second & third round picks with GWS (i.e. moving 3 places up the order in the second & third round) as part of the deal. That trade wouldn't get us pick 1, but should be ample for pick 2) - I think Adelaide swapped pick 10 for MD pick 2 last year.

This mini-draft pick 2 would more than likely be for Jack Martin (the gun CHF prospect Jesse Hogan is likely to be the mini-draft pick 1).

That basically gives us arguably the two players with the highest potential in the 2012 & 2013 draft years (Stringer and Martin), along with 4 more picks.

I think the risk with Martin is that he will require some pretty careful management in his first couple of years (his father is apparently a bit of an issue), but feel comfortable with players like that with McCartney at the helm.

The risk with Stringer is his return from a badly broken leg, prior to his injury he could seriously have been pick 1. He's had some good/some bad games this year, hence the risk and why he should slip to pick 5.

Both are outstanding prospects.

Remaining picks in the draft will end up being:
Pick 21
Pick 23
Pick 42
Pick 46 (Sam Reid compo)

Thoughts?

I would legitimately Sh*t my pants if we were able to pull this off. Just as a point of difference though, we would be more likely to have access to Jesse Hogan as the 17 year old Mini Draft Selection 2, as Martin is widely seen as the number one by most 'experts' on bigfooty. Of course it would depend on who had the first selection, but I personally believe 13/14 out of the 18 clubs would select Martin just because of that huge upside and X factor he provides, whilst still having such a slender frame. Once the two preseasons are completed (which would be compulsary considering he is ineligable to play before the 2014 AFL season) and AFL fitness levels are achieved, the kid is going to be amazing. The things he can do now with a 65kg body are astonishing. Anyway, I would be happy with either of these two as our mini draft choices, as hogan would be a machine after a couple of preseasons. He does have some puppy fat, as most well developed 16 year old kids would have in this situation, but again, with two preseasons under his belt, he is going to be a monster. At 194cm and 94kg already, i could see him pushing 197-198cm and 104-108kg in 2014. would match everyone straight away.


A little bit off topic, but do GWS have the ability to pre-list state league talent and previously listed afl players once again, similar to last year? If so, we should attempt to gain the best possible mature age Key Position Forward their is to offer going around this year. I don't care how old they are, just as long as they have a big body, they know where and how to lead, and they would take some pressure off Liam Jones and Ayce Cordy. They would only have to be around for 2-3 years, max. Would do wonders for our young fella's. I don't want to hear the crap that some supporters throw around on here like " They'll hinder the development of our young forwards" or " I don't want some fringe player/mature age hack who wasn't good enough to play 2 years ago" Well, you might just have to bite the bullet and get over it. Who is the only forward on our list who is kicking multiple goals or at least presenting week in week out? oh, thats right. That mature age forward called Tory Dickson.... These kind of blokes deserve a chance, and lets fac it, they couln't do any worse than our shambles of a bloody forward line have done this year.

/End rant.

 

[Chris Grant]

Sheedy wanted to trade Jobe. Saw him as a very ordinary player as a youngster...

If it took Jobe a few years to become 'elite', couldn't we give Mitch the same?
Pretty hard call comparing Wallis to Watson at this stage.

Bit hard to judge that in their second season wouldn't you think? Didnt think Boyd, Cross or even Jobe Watson had the influence Wallis or Libba have had in their second seasons!

I was not comparing them, the poster mentioned that Mitchell and Watson was not elite at anything. I was answering to that response. Check out my post 521. My second paragraph is how I see it in the future, not now. I never saw standout qualities as a junior from Wallis.

 

[bulldogsman]

We give: Pick 6.
We get: Mini-draft selection 2, pick 21 (this being GWS's held Adelaide Compo Pick).

We should also negotiate a swap of our second & third round picks with GWS (i.e. moving 3 places up the order in the second & third round) as part of the deal. That trade wouldn't get us pick 1, but should be ample for pick 2) - I think Adelaide swapped pick 10 for MD pick 2 last year.

This mini-draft pick 2 would more than likely be for Jack Martin (the gun CHF prospect Jesse Hogan is likely to be the mini-draft pick 1).

That basically gives us arguably the two players with the highest potential in the 2012 & 2013 draft years (Stringer and Martin), along with 4 more picks.

I think the risk with Martin is that he will require some pretty careful management in his first couple of years (his father is apparently a bit of an issue), but feel comfortable with players like that with McCartney at the helm.
The risk with Stringer is his return from a badly broken leg, prior to his injury he could seriously have been pick 1. He's had some good/some bad games this year, hence the risk and why he should slip to pick 5.

So just to clarify we get the Number 1 pick for next year with pick 6 and get pick 21 from them?

So firstly Adelaide's Compo pick comes straight after Adelaide's pick. So it may not be pick 21.
Secondly, I'm 99% sure Martin will go at pick 1
Thirdly, there's no way in hell that will happen.