2012 Post Season - Retirements and delistings (list changes) thread

[Schulzenfest]

Okay, you need to stop referring to his SANFL reserves performances as a performance that demands him to be picked at AFL level.

There's nothing else to go on. You can't not give a guy a chance at SANFL level when he clearly deserves one, and then say that he should've been delisted because he didn't put in good performances at SANFL level. That logic doesn't work. Of course he didn't put in good performances at SANFL level, he wasn't given the chance to.

Last year he was dominating the SANFL seniors for most of the year and was then a handy contributor at AFL level once he got the call up. This year he had a few average games to start the year, then got injured, then came back and tore up every game he played. So he's a 21 year old who in the last two years had one month of non-injury related poor form compared to a year and a bit's worth of good form (yes, some of it was at SANFL reserves level, but that wasn't Banner's fault), and we're delisting him? It's baffling.

 

[*PAF]

Wow, cyber wormholes.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Banner was coached by Ron Fuller, Mick Godden, Tony Bamford, Mark Williams and Matt Primus. Not one of them considered him an automatic league selection at SANFL or AFL level. Were they all wrong?

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Banner's 2011 season at AFL is better than Brett Ebert's 2012 and 2011 seasons. Sure he probably may not make it as an AFL footballer but there are players on our list that I'd delist before him.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Banner was coached by Ron Fuller, Mick Godden, Tony Bamford, Mark Williams and Matt Primus. Not one of them considered him an automatic league selection at SANFL or AFL level. Were they all wrong?

He didn't really develop into a good player until 2011, so you can discount Fuller, Godden and Williams. Primus and Bamford were both wrong, yes. They were wrong about a lot of things, that's why they were both sacked.

 

[PJ Power]

He didn't really develop into a good player until 2011, so you can discount Fuller, Godden and Williams. Primus and Bamford were both wrong, yes. They were wrong about a lot of things, that's why they were both sacked.

On the grounds of a promising run of form in late 2011, and our distinct lack of small, goalkicking forwards after Gray's injury in early 2012, I was really surprised that Banner didn't get a run at AFL level in the early parts of 2012. I think he did himself a big disservice by not coming to play through the NAB cup/challenge matches where he played like he was lost at sea against WCE especially. Moore was the same at that stage of the year but backed up by consolidating and then improving at SANFL reseves level.

I still find it unjustifiable that Banner couldn't get a run at some stage in 2012 at AFL level, but obviously the coaches had seen enough by then to know he wasn't part of our long-term plans.

We won't rue letting him go, but in my mind there would have been some value in keeping him on the list ahead of Ebert and Logan.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

He didn't really develop into a good player until 2011, so you can discount Fuller, Godden and Williams. Primus and Bamford were both wrong, yes. They were wrong about a lot of things, that's why they were both sacked.

So if we discount several coaches and that his best form was in the reserves in 2012 then what did Port Adelaide ever do for Mitch Banner? Starting to sound like the What did the Romans ever do for us scene in Meaning of Life.

I had high hopes for Banner when he was drafted, he certainly had an exciting U18s highlights package. But in the end the real mistake appears to have been drafting him ahead of Rory Sloane who we were really into in the lead up to the draft.

 

[Lagooner]

I never really got the Mitch Banner love. I can only think of one game where he actually stood out. From memory he kicked 3 or 4 goals in quick succession Jason Davenport-style, and then proceeded to do nothing else for the rest of his AFL career Jason Davenport-style.

I'm not really upset by his delisting and I would trade him for any of the five guys that we brought in during trade week.

In fact I'm more upset knowing we could've had Sloane instead!

 

[Gillian Batty]

The fact of the matter is that the current version of Mitch Banner is not an AFL standard player. I like Mitch but there comes a point in time where (if you're seeking to be a credible organisation) you have to cut these players to progress. I'm in the 'Logan is a spud' boat and I think he has shown much more than Banner in terms of general footballing ability.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Banner has played well for a young player whenever he has gotten a chance.

The idea that we'd play a proven hack with no scope for improvement like Matt Thomas ahead of him is staggering.

I'm not saying Banner was a match winner, I'm saying he had a positive impact when he played and would have been a more valuable member of our side than several players who got regular games in 2012.

The fact that Bamford and Primus were too stupid to give him the golden run they gave other players is another chapter in their respective books of ineptitude as opposed to a slight against Banner's ability.

Another development failure. Another selection failure. Incredibly happy to hopefully be rid of this kind of garbage.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

If we had been playing Banner, Thoms would have been carving it up in the SANFL LEAGUE side much more than Banner has been and people would be on here having the exact opposite argument.

I like Banner and would have liked to have seen him given more of a go but at the end of the day if he was good enough he would have forced them to pick him in SANFL league and forced us to pick him in AFL. He didn't.

 

[SupportMe]

If we had been playing Banner, Thoms would have been carving it up in the SANFL LEAGUE side much more than Banner has been and people would be on here having the exact opposite argument.

I like Banner and would have liked to have seen him given more of a go but at the end of the day if he was good enough he would have forced them to pick him in SANFL league and forced us to pick him in AFL. He didn't.

Hang on a second, the very problem with the way Banner was treated is that his stats in the reserves more than warranted him playing in the SANFL league team. He very clearly had his cards marked by our club before the season began for whatever reason. You cannot tell me he had enough flaws to justify him barely appearing in a flaky Magpies team - let alone a Port side carrying guys like Phillips, Thomas et al.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Hang on a second, the very problem with the way Banner was treated is that his stats in the reserves more than warranted him playing in the SANFL league team. He very clearly had his cards marked by our club before the season began for whatever reason. You cannot tell me he had enough flaws to justify him barely appearing in a flaky Magpies team - let alone a Port side carrying guys like Phillips, Thomas et al.

If it were just the Maggies that behaved that way I might agree with you. The fact it happened at two SANFL clubs (and an AFL club) makes me look towards the common denominator.

I remember hearing the same whining about Thomson, Symes, Farmer, White, Deluca etc. etc.

 

[Malibu#27]

Banner was a sook.... (not my words)

 

[Powerade 08]

Banner is a 5cm too small inside mid who has no real standout attributes to make up for it...

That said Banner, Surjan and Rodan leaving while Hitchcock, Salter and Logan get another year makes no sense.

 

[Stewart2Austin Reborn]

Banner is a 5cm too small inside mid who has no real standout attributes to make up for it...

That said Banner, Surjan and Rodan leaving while Hitchcock, Salter and Logan get another year makes no sense.

Probably has a lot to do with team dynamics, in terms of friendship and closeness, and they will be phased out soon anyway if they don't step up.

 

[Natman]

IIRC Thomas was brought back into the AFL on the back of a 17 disposal SANFL game. Not exactly tearing it up.



Yeah nah. He did everything humanly possible to force them to pick him at SANFL level and they still refused to do so.

Banner was delisted because Matthew Primus and Tony Bamford are crap at their jobs, not because he's crap at his own job.

Obviously your judgement is better than theirs. Shirley you can't be serious.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Obviously your judgement is better than theirs. Shirley you can't be serious.

Yes, Matthew Primus has brilliant judgment. That's why Port were so successful under him and that's why he's still employed as the senior coach.

I'd trust 90% of the posters on here to do a better job at the selection table than Primus and co. did, myself included. His opinions aren't any more valid than mine just because he got a 'jobs for the boys' senior coach appointment (which he totally ****ed up).

 

[Wargreymon90]

I was a banner fan
If it's true that he is a sook. Would not want him playing in my team

 

[Natman]

Yes, Matthew Primus has brilliant judgment. That's why Port were so successful under him and that's why he's still employed as the senior coach.

I'd trust 90% of the posters on here to do a better job at the selection table than Primus and co. did, myself included. His opinions aren't any more valid than mine just because he got a 'jobs for the boys' senior coach appointment (which he totally screwed up).

This post confirms that it is pointless continuing this discussion.

 

[Natman]

So you think Primus did a fantastic, infallible job then?

No, I am saying that he and the PAFC selectors have more information and ability to judge a player's ability than you, me and 90% of BF.

 

[Jonts]

I can't beleive Nick Salter is on our list still, love the man but when you look at what he has actually done at AFL level, and he is 25? like good effot Nick

 

[Natman]

Information, yes. Ability, I disagree, and I can provide pleeeeeeeeenty of evidence to support that theory (some of which is in this thread).

You are a good poster but your naivety and stubbornness clouds your judgement and ability to listen to others.
All the evidence that you will provide are the statistics and that is not enough - remember, lies, damn lies and statistics - can all be interpreted any way you like, as a few posters have done, opposing your view.
The most compellingly aspect that you don't have in this discussion is the 'behind the scenes' stuff which, more than likely, has as much weight as statistics.

 

[Natman]

I would say that assuming that a guy who coached Port Adelaide to 16th and 14th, including losses to GC and GWS, before being sacked automatically has better judgment than somebody else on here just because he was a senior coach naive, but that's just me. If we were talking about a semi-successful coach, then it would be different (but even then, Choco's judgment in his later years was pretty shocking).

I can't add anymore but to say that your post reinforces mine.

You are a good poster but your naivety and stubbornness clouds your judgement and ability to listen to others.
All the evidence that you will provide are the statistics and that is not enough - remember, lies, damn lies and statistics - can all be interpreted any way you like, as a few posters have done, opposing your view.
The most compellingly aspect that you don't have in this discussion is the 'behind the scenes' stuff which, more than likely, has as much weight as statistics.

 

[Peck]

I would say that assuming that a guy who coached Port Adelaide to 16th and 14th, including losses to GC and GWS, before being sacked automatically has better judgment than somebody else on here just because he was a senior coach naive, but that's just me. If we were talking about a semi-successful coach, then it would be different (but even then, Choco's judgment in his later years was pretty shocking).

There is an entire football club at play here, we don't go to training sessions, we don't know the players personally, we barely watch the game as much as the coaches do. There is simply no chance that anyone who posts on here knows more than Primus did. Sure, he could have made bad decisions, and some of them may have been obvious to people from outside the club, but to say that anyone who hasn't played AFL at the highest level could do a better job is ludicrous. No offense intended here gopower, I think you know a lot more than most, but you don't seem to take into account how much you would learn by playing football at the highest level compared to watching it on TV.

I'll grant there would be situations where some here could make a better decision, but it would probably be luck more than anything. Think of what you said about Motlop for example - I'm not saying I wasn't pretty much on your side with that - from from what has been said about his time at Mannum he in no way deserved a spot on our list.