NFL 2013 NFL - Off-Season & Pre-Draft Discussion

[superfreak]

This would have been the craziest ending to a Super Bowl of all time...

Flacco instructed teammates on the sideline to tackle Ted Ginn on the safety punt return if he looked like breaking it for a game winning TD...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...-tackle-ted-ginn-sideline-165726030--nfl.html

 

[Exe Gesis]

Would've resulted in a TD being awarded to the Niners.

It'd have been the cheapest classless act of all-time....like this one....

 

[Exe Gesis]

According to DraftInsider.net's Tony Pauline, the Chiefs, Eagles and Jets all "think highly" of Syracuse QB Ryan Nassib.​

​

Per Pauline, it's "not out of the question" one of the three trades back into the "late part" of the first round to land the Orange signal caller. The Bills and new coach Doug Marrone are also believed to be keen on Marrone's college quarterback. The QB picture remains murky, but Nassib's chances of going on day one are beginning to look better than 50-50.​

​

Related: Chiefs, Jets, Eagles​

Source: DraftInsider.net ​

Feb 8 - 12:38 AM​

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Pauline is a big Jets fan. Regularly posts on a Jets message board.

 

[Brasher]

^Wouldn't be surprised if we gave him a look. With Clemons' ACL there is no guarantee he'll come back and play the way he did. As a stop gap measure we could do worse and he's talked about wanting to play in Seattle before (the 12th man would help pad his stats).

Kaep could run the option right at him......go get him Seattle.

 

[Joshen]

Kaep could run the option right at him......go get him Seattle.

Yep, the lack of run D he provides would need to be addressed, especially with Irvin's weakness against it too. It's alright we'll try and keep him in the pocket again like last time what was it 42 to 13?

 

[Joshen]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130207/2012-nfl-draft-redo/?sct=hp_t12_a9&eref=sihp#

 

[Sven]

Mike Max of WCCO Radio reported this weekend that the Vikings are actively pursuing a trade for wide receiver Percy Harvin.

According to the report, the reason the Vikings put Harvin on injured reserve while he was healing from an ankle injury was related to a meltdown Harvin had that was directed toward head coach Leslie Frazier in the presence of several players.

Sources said that teammates didn’t take well to Harvin’s blow-up at Frazier, which was similar to an episode Harvin had with former head coach Brad Childress. As a result, the report claims, the Vikings are looking to trade Harvin while his trade value is high.

Harvin is under contract for one more season and there has been speculation that, if the Vikings were looking to trade Harvin, any potential trade would likely have to come prior to this year’s draft.

Harvin’s salary for 2013, the last of his of his rookie deal, nearly doubled for 2013 – to $2.9 million – because of incentives he met in 2012.

These rumours have been around for some time, and locker room chemistry is the biggest reason for the Vikings looking for the trade. I mentioned in the crystal ball thread that Harvin was headed to the Patriots, but I'm not sure The Vikings would get the value they want for Harvin from the Patriots.

With the talent and production that Harvin is capable of, you'd think he'd be worth at least a high 2nd rounder, maybe even a late 1st rounder.

 

[catters078]

These rumours have been around for some time, and locker room chemistry is the biggest reason for the Vikings looking for the trade. I mentioned in the crystal ball thread that Harvin was headed to the Patriots, but I'm not sure The Vikings would get the value they want for Harvin from the Patriots.

With the talent and production that Harvin is capable of, you'd think he'd be worth at least a high 2nd rounder, maybe even a late 1st rounder.

Seattle would be a good spot for him.

Seahawks would be very dangerous with him added to that receiving core

 

[Joshen]

Seattle would be a good spot for him.

Seahawks would be very dangerous with him added to that receiving core

From Seahawks draft blog:

The argument against Percy Harvin to Seattle

February 10th, 2013 | Written by Rob Staton

Percy Harvin to Seattle? I can't see it.

I had an email today from a reader called Chris. Thought it might create an interesting discussion…

Rob, I read today on Rotoworld that Percy Harvin is on the out. They say a second rounder and change. With the Hawks having so many picks, what about offering our second rounder and a 5,6, or 7? The only thing I wouldn’t like is that I thought we would be looking for a big receiver, rather than adding another 5-11 receiver. With that said, it’s Percy Harvin and could be reunited with Darrell Bevell. I would say that with Sidney Rice and Golden Tate on the outside along with Harvin in the slot, that would be a formidable trio. Thoughts?​

​

Harvin is a truly dynamic receiver. Very few players enter the league with his playmaking talent. We’ve seen all kinds of prospects compared to Harvin — most recently Tavon Austin at West Virginia. The reality is nobody gets close. He plays bigger than his 5-11, 185lbs frame, gets off press and can stretch the field. He’s competitive. He has tremendous YAC value, is capable of handling a few snaps in the backfield and he’s one of the best kick returners in the league. He constantly finds ways to impact games and he’s been relatively productive despite awful quarterback situations in three of his four seasons in the NFL.

When you watched him at Florida, you knew he was a star in the making. Throughout his college career he just looked better. And despite concerns over drug use going into the 2009 draft, it wasn’t a big surprise he still ended up as a first round pick (#22 overall to Minnesota).
Age-wise he’s still young enough to warrant a decent contract. He’ll be 25 in May but still has at least four years of excellent production in his locker. He’s the quintessential scorer of cheap points. There aren’t many better than Harvin for making big momentum changes in a game. When he’s healthy, he’s one of the leagues best receivers, playmakers and all-round football players.

So why wouldn’t I make the trade?
For everything that’s good about Harvin, there’s nearly always a bigger negative. The report from Rotoworld quoted in Chris’ email refers to a piece by CBS Minnesota:

Sources tell WCCO’s Mike Max that the No. 1 reason Percy Harvin left the team this season was not his injury, but it was motivated by a blowup he had with Vikings head coach Leslie Frazier.​

Multiple sources tell Max that Harvin had an embarrassing tirade directed toward Frasier, disrespecting the coach during the season when Harvin was sidelined with an injured ankle.​

Teammates were present, and Max was told that is when Harvin left the team and was put on injured reserve.​

Sources say teammates were disappointed in Harvin’s actions and the organization has moved toward less tolerance for that behavior.​

Harvin apparently had a similar incident when Childress coached the team.​

The Vikings will try to trade him, Max reports, as Harvin does have market value.​

​

One of the key mantra’s within Seattle’s locker room is you have to be ‘all in’. They want players to buy into Pete Carroll’s vision. That doesn’t mean they’re bringing in robotic yes-men towing a party-line that isn’t working. It’s about putting the team first and so far it’s working. The Minnesota Vikings won ten games in 2012 and made the post-season. Yet Percy Harvin is trying to show up the coach? Why? It’d be partly understandable if they were destined for 2-14. The Vikings actually had a pretty remarkable season. But Percy’s not happy.

Me. Me. Me. Me. Me.

Ok — he’s been after a new contract. I get that. But you do your complaining in campe, make the point and then get on with the job. Right at the point Harvin should’ve been doing his best to enhance Minnesota’s playoff ambitions, he was doing the polar opposite. Not good.
The fact he also had tear-ups with Brad Childress also suggests this isn’t a one-off, contract based wrangle. Seattle has a pretty harmonic dressing room right now and the last thing they need is Percy Harvin acting as a distraction. We saw some of the playmaking qualities he possesses at Century Link in 2012 but cast your minds back. What else do you remember? That’s right, Percy screaming at his coach on the sideline. In a close game. Whether it was a legitimate gripe or not, there’s a time and a place.

Then there’s the injury history. In 2009 and 2010 he suffered severe problems with migraine’s and was constantly listed on the injury report as a consequence. He’s also suffered many other issues including ankle, hamstring, hip, shoulder and finger injuries. In 2009 he was listed as questionable seven times. He was on the injury report eight times in 2010, seven times in 2011 and five times in 2012 before being placed on injured reserve (missing Minnesota’s last five games). He’s competitive for his size when he’s actually on the field, but he’s also been quite brittle.
And finally there’s this article by Jeremy Fowler at TwinCities.com:

Vikings wide receiver Percy Harvin “epitomized the climate” of player entitlement under coach Urban Meyer at the University of Florida, according to a Sporting News report posted online Monday, April 9.​

Harvin, who played for the Gators from 2006-08, reportedly was one of three players who missed the 2008 season opener after allegedly failing drug tests for marijuana – penalties dictated by university policy – although Meyer publicly blamed an injury for Harvin’s absence.​

Harvin also refused to run stadium steps with the rest of the team during offseason conditioning before the 2007 season, according to the Sporting News, and once allegedly threw wide receivers coach Billy Gonzales to the ground by his neck.​

Harvin reportedly wasn’t punished for either of those incidents, according to the report, and was treated differently as a member of Meyer’s “Circle of Trust.”​

Harvin told strength and conditioning coaches while boycotting stadium runs, “this (expletive) ends now,” according to the report, and the team played basketball as conditioning the next day.​

​

So it comes down to this — is he worth the hassle?
That’s not to say any deal is impossible. Marshawn Lynch was considered troublesome in Buffalo but he’s been a perfect professional for the Seahawks. John Schneider takes an aggressive approach to team building and he’s made similar deals in the past. He brought in Lynch, traded for Charlie Whitehurst and also found a way to land Chris Clemons in a bargain deal. They seriously considered a big trade for Brandon Marshall — who’s had his fair share of problems.
If Carroll and Schneider feel Harvin helps them get significantly closer to a Championship then maybe this could happen? Someone will show interest after all. Why not Seattle? They’re good enough to start considering the final moves that will push them towards title contention. And just like all potential trades (see: Darrelle Revis) they’ll no doubt do their homework and made an educated decision.

Right now I’d still say a trade to the Seahawks is unlikely. However dynamic Harvin can be on the field, you also need to be able to trust him off it. And as Carroll and Schneider build around Russell Wilson — I think they’ll be looking for guys who share his burning enthusiasm for success and hard work, not guys who are likely to scream at the coaches in the midst of a battle.
Daniel Jeremiah this week gave the Seahawks Keenan Allen in his latest mock draft. I suspect if the Seahawks do try to add a receiver, it’ll be the big, physical target they currently lack. Whether that’s a guy like Allen at 6-2/6-3 with the ability to compete in the air or a mobile tight end who can run a lot of receiver routes and act in the role Kellen Winslow would’ve taken had he made the cut — I think that’s what they’ll set out to add.

If they are willing to consider another receiver in that 5-11-6-1 range, why not go after DeAndre Hopkins? He might not be the most explosive receiver, but he’s reliable, consistent and will make life easier for Wilson. He might not have the same playmaking qualities as Harvin, but he could be more effective for this young offense.

We have a couple of smaller guys in Baldwin and Tate who while obviously not as talented as Harvin are more than serviceable (top 3 WRs on our team) and would just about take a bullet for our QB. I'd prefer we looked at a bigger deep threat.

 

[GreyWind]

Well now Harvin plans to hold out on the Vikings if not given a new contract. He is gone.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...vin-reportedly-plans-vikings-contract-holdout

 

[GeeCats07]

Well now Harvin plans to hold out on the Vikings if not given a new contract. He is gone.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...vin-reportedly-plans-vikings-contract-holdout

Common Raiders. Sign him or Jennings!

 

[catters078]

Common Raiders. Sign him or Jennings!

cant see raiders getting harvin. dont have a second round pick and no way they give up pick 3

Cap contraints makes it unlikely they can sign jennings.

the best thing oakland can do IMO is trade down to pick 11-12 and get a 2nd round pick in the 40-45 range and draft a receiver there like Justin Hunter or Deandre hopkins in the 2nd round

(there is very good WR value in the 2nd round this year)

 

[GreyWind]

It's going to be interesting to see where Harvin, Jennings, Wallace and Bowe all end up. All are number 1 receivers and all will command a large pay check and there are a lot of teams in need for a true number 1. Also Wallace and Harvin both have question marks surrounding them.

 

[DaSawx]

With both Hester and Knox possibly gone the best could do with a speedy deep threat, will need a cheap version though.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Serious question.
What value does Hester have?

I'd rather have someone who can turn a 50 yard punt gross to a 40 yard punt net then have someone who the punter avoids for a 45 yard punt gross and net.

Sure, he's a human highlight real when the punter is a dumbass. But those hidden yards at the beginning of most drives that a regular punt returner can get, would probably be more beneficial to a team surely?

 

[GreyWind]

In my opinion he has very little value. As a WR he offers very little and would be about the 4th or 5th option most times, thereby taking up a spot usually taken by rookies and if I'm not mistaken it's been about 2 seasons since he has returned a punt and he is getting on in age. I'm not seeing a lot of upside.

 

[Dagless]

Hester-types are huge for a team.

I don't really see how it's debatable... The likelihood of a 40 yard punt return by anyone else is about equal with Hester, except teams routinely accept shitty field position on D on the hopes that he doesn't make it even shittier.

In a game where every bit counts, good PRs are underrated.

 

[larkis]

All this talk about Harvin - I'm always against trading, drafting or signing injury prone players such as Harvin. To make it to a superbowl you need a team with limited injuries, it's about having a team that survives the whole season and not just having a good team.

 

[Joshen]

Washington does a similar job on our team - albeit it as the 3rd RB option. Got next to no snaps outside the Arizona game. Field position he gives us is quite valuable though - and he is a leader off the field as an added bonus. It would be nice to get more production out of that position though - that is what makes Harvin and potential draftees like Austin extra attractive.

 

[Dagless]

All this talk about Harvin - I'm always against trading, drafting or signing injury prone players such as Harvin. To make it to a superbowl you need a team with limited injuries, it's about having a team that survives the whole season and not just having a good team.

Injury prone*

10 games in 4 years, with 7 of those coming last year. So three in three years, which is previously better than.... A whole heckuva lotta SB team leading WRs...

Get a clue peeps. This is worse than the Chism argument.

 

[Dirty Bird]

All this talk about Harvin - I'm always against trading, drafting or signing injury prone players such as Harvin. To make it to a superbowl you need a team with limited injuries, it's about having a team that survives the whole season and not just having a good team.

So using these stats

Injury prone*

10 games in 4 years, with 7 of those coming last year. So three in three years, which is previously better than.... A whole heckuva lotta SB team leading WRs...

I'd take it you'd be happy to let Sam Bradford go for say, Kellen Moore?

Afterall, you're losing someone who's injury prone (twice as injury prone as Harvin ignoring this past season) And you'd gain someone who hasn't missed a game due to injury in at least 6 years (maybe into High School)

Afterall, he survives, Bradford doesn't.

 

[Dagless]

So using these stats

I'd take it you'd be happy to let Sam Bradford go for say, Kellen Moore?

Afterall, you're losing someone who's injury prone (twice as injury prone as Harvin ignoring this past season) And you'd gain someone who hasn't missed a game due to injury in at least 6 years (maybe into High School)

Afterall, he survives, Bradford doesn't.

One is actually talented enough to play in the NFL though. Always a key point

 

[Dirty Bird]

One is actually talented enough to play in the NFL though. Always a key point

Oh, Kellen will jump Shaun Hill on the depth chart this off-season, be the backup.
And then Matt Stafford will go Drew Bledsoe on us and Kellen Moore becomes the next Tom Brady

 

[Dagless]

Oh, Kellen will jump Shaun Hill on the depth chart this off-season, be the backup.
And then Matt Stafford will go Drew Bledsoe on us and Kellen Moore becomes the next Tom Brady

Unlike Brady, Moore was over-hyped in the draft and was picked far too early.