Mega Thread 2013: Trade Hypotheticals

[captainMyCaptain]

What would it take to ensure the Dogs get Boyd? Cooney and pick 5 could do it as Cooney has hamstring woes now, is yet to sign and is probably expendable from the Dogs. He definitely isn't Brownlow material with his current injury troubles.
In return, they would need a guarantee that they would get Tom Boyd (so they could trade with Saints, Melbourne or GWS as long as any club above them does not pick Boyd up), and something else thrown in.

What would GWS, Melbourne and St Kilda have to make the pick 5/Cooney package for Boyd worthwhile?
And for paul scholes, I reckon GWS would accept Minson + pick 5 as well straight up.

Thought this would be interesting to gauge opinions for.

From what the Giants have stated there not after players in the age profile of Minson or Cooney it would take a player such as Jordan Roughead for giants to give up pick1,at least thats the talk coming from the club at the moment.

 

[JTCWBFC]

From the U18 championship thread, couple of Dogs fans talking about trying to get Tom Boyd, the highly rated young key forward.



First off, I don't think either GWS or Melbourne would pick up Tom Boyd. GWS have Cameron + Patton, and are looking for a key forward from elsewhere. Melbourne have Dawes, Clark and Hogan. So the Dogs could finish 16th and get Boyd at pick 3. The Saints would be after him, and so would Brisbane. The Dogs could finish above both those teams.
For this hypothetical, the ladder ends up:
14. Bulldogs
15. Brisbane
16. Saints
17. Melbourne
18. GWS


What would it take to ensure the Dogs get Boyd? Cooney and pick 5 could do it as Cooney has hamstring woes now, is yet to sign and is probably expendable from the Dogs. He definitely isn't Brownlow material with his current injury troubles.
In return, they would need a guarantee that they would get Tom Boyd (so they could trade with Saints, Melbourne or GWS as long as any club above them does not pick Boyd up), and something else thrown in.

What would GWS, Melbourne and St Kilda have to make the pick 5/Cooney package for Boyd worthwhile?
And for paul scholes, I reckon GWS would accept Minson + pick 5 as well straight up.

Thought this would be interesting to gauge opinions for.

I love cooney but I would probably do this. Boyd is just what we need. BUt if we got Boyd with our first pick our recruiters would need to pull some outside midfield talent from the middle of the draft because we are lacking pace through the midfield as well.

 

[philthy05]

From the U18 championship thread, couple of Dogs fans talking about trying to get Tom Boyd, the highly rated young key forward.




What would it take to ensure the Dogs get Boyd? Cooney and pick 5 could do it as Cooney has hamstring woes now, is yet to sign and is probably expendable from the Dogs. He definitely isn't Brownlow material with his current injury troubles.
In return, they would need a guarantee that they would get Tom Boyd (so they could trade with Saints, Melbourne or GWS as long as any club above them does not pick Boyd up), and something else thrown in.

What would GWS, Melbourne and St Kilda have to make the pick 5/Cooney package for Boyd worthwhile?
And for paul scholes, I reckon GWS would accept Minson + pick 5 as well straight up.

Thought this would be interesting to gauge opinions for.

1. cooney is a fa. if your not even aware of one of the highest profile free agents , or aware how free agency works maybe you should do more reading before you start posting such in depth suggestions.

also , a guarantee such as you mention doesnt exist.

 

[TheMcGrathMan]

1. cooney is a fa. if your not even aware of one of the highest profile free agents , or aware how free agency works maybe you should do more reading before you start posting such in depth suggestions.

He is a restricted free agent.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-21/where-your-clubs-free-agents-are-at

Adam Cooney (restricted)

If you are unaware of how free agency works, for a restricted free agent, a rival club may make an offer to the player of their choice, but if the original club matches that offer he can not simply leave. The player has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with his original club 3) enter the draft.

So say GWS offer Cooney 800k a year for 4 years. The Bulldogs can match that offer if they choose to do so, and if they do, then Cooney is not allowed to simply leave. He has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with the Bulldogs 3) enter the draft.

There is a fair chance the Dogs would match the offer for Cooney, and there is no chance Cooney would then enter the draft.

So thanks for your advice, but I'm quite confident I know how AFL free agency works. Maybe you should read up on it as well and quit being a smartarse.

 

[TheMcGrathMan]

I love cooney but I would probably do this. Boyd is just what we need. BUt if we got Boyd with our first pick our recruiters would need to pull some outside midfield talent from the middle of the draft because we are lacking pace through the midfield as well.

It would hurt Doggies supporters in the short-term to have Cooney leave, but if you got Tom Boyd and he lived up to expectations I'm sure your hearts would mend.
I'm not quite up to date with the Dogs list but Griffen, Dahlhaus and Macrae are quick and while Dahlhaus plays forward pocket a bit, he can still play midfield yes? What about that Johannisen, I know he's quick but I don't know where he plays.

From what the Giants have stated there not after players in the age profile of Minson or Cooney it would take a player such as Jordan Roughead for giants to give up pick1,at least thats the talk coming from the club at the moment.

Roughead would be a massive get, really promising key back. Where would that leave Adam Tomlinson though? Roughead-Davis-Plowman as key backs, Cameron-Patton and possibly Franklin as key forwards.
Would Roughead + pick 5 for Tomlinson + pick 1 be fair?
Roughead is ahead of Tomlinson, but Tom Boyd is ahead of pick 5..

 

[It Just Is]

He is a restricted free agent.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-21/where-your-clubs-free-agents-are-at



If you are unaware of how free agency works, for a restricted free agent, a rival club may make an offer to the player of their choice, but if the original club matches that offer he can not simply leave. The player has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with his original club 3) enter the draft.

So say GWS offer Cooney 800k a year for 4 years. The Bulldogs can match that offer if they choose to do so, and if they do, then Cooney is not allowed to simply leave. He has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with the Bulldogs 3) enter the draft.

There is a fair chance the Dogs would match the offer for Cooney, and there is no chance Cooney would then enter the draft.

So thanks for your advice, but I'm quite confident I know how AFL free agency works. Maybe you should read up on it as well and quit being a smartarse.

Remember Brisbane's trade period in 2009? Treating players like that wont end well.

 

[Igloo]

Roughead would be a massive get, really promising key back. Where would that leave Adam Tomlinson though? Roughead-Davis-Plowman as key backs, Cameron-Patton and possibly Franklin as key forwards.
Would Roughead + pick 5 for Tomlinson + pick 1 be fair?
Roughead is ahead of Tomlinson, but Tom Boyd is ahead of pick 5..

We wont trade Roughead, and he wont want to be traded. Been a Bulldogs supporter his whole life.
We wont trade anyone in that early to mid 20's age range that we rate highly. Only fringe players.
Unfortunately, they're the kinds of players GWS want, so there is very little chance of us getting pick 1.

 

[TheMcGrathMan]

Remember Brisbane's trade period in 2009? Treating players like that wont end well.

Really? You think matching an extremely lucrative offer, as the Dogs are fully entitled to do, and then trading him would be treating Cooney poorly?

Look, the Dogs have to reach 97% of their cap or whatever it is. They have a young list so some guys are going to get overpaid. If the list management said look, "Adam isn't the player he once was but we think he is worth keeping" (as he is still a genuinely good player), and matched that offer, Cooney would be stupid to leave.

And then Cooney (hypothetically) decides he wants to leave, requests a trade and the Dogs do a fair deal to ensure he goes where he wants?

How on earth is that anything like Brisbane in 2009?

Seriously..

 

[paul scholes]

Really? You think matching an extremely lucrative offer, as the Dogs are fully entitled to do, and then trading him would be treating Cooney poorly?

Look, the Dogs have to reach 97% of their cap or whatever it is. They have a young list so some guys are going to get overpaid. If the list management said look, "Adam isn't the player he once was but we think he is worth keeping" (as he is still a genuinely good player), and matched that offer, Cooney would be stupid to leave.

And then Cooney (hypothetically) decides he wants to leave, requests a trade and the Dogs do a fair deal to ensure he goes where he wants?

How on earth is that anything like Brisbane in 2009?

Seriously..

Beat me to it. Bradshaw hardly played again, and Rishcetelli's hardly set the world on fire.
Problem was what the Lions brought in and the draft picks they gave away.

 

[TheMcGrathMan]

Beat me to it. Bradshaw hardly played again, and
Rishcetelli's hardly set the world on fire.
Problem was what the Lions brought in and the draft picks they gave away.

Although they did treat Lachie Henderson poorly I recall? He didn't get a whole lot prior warning I think and if I were him I would have felt so undervalued that I would have agreed to go as well.

Also on Bradshaw, while he didn't play much again, still not a great way to treat your dual premiership player.

Completely different scenario to my hypothetical anyway, I don't think the Dogs would screw over Cooney as long as Cooney doesn't hold them to ransom (as in, 1 million a year or something ridiculous) with his current contract negotations.

 

[philthy05]

He is a restricted free agent.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-21/where-your-clubs-free-agents-are-at



If you are unaware of how free agency works, for a restricted free agent, a rival club may make an offer to the player of their choice, but if the original club matches that offer he can not simply leave. The player has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with his original club 3) enter the draft.

So say GWS offer Cooney 800k a year for 4 years. The Bulldogs can match that offer if they choose to do so, and if they do, then Cooney is not allowed to simply leave. He has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with the Bulldogs 3) enter the draft.

There is a fair chance the Dogs would match the offer for Cooney, and there is no chance Cooney would then enter the draft.
So thanks for your advice, but I'm quite confident I know how AFL free agency works. Maybe you should read up on it as well and quit being a smartarse.

baahahahahahahhahaha

yeah sure. epic fail.

 

[It Just Is]

Really? You think matching an extremely lucrative offer, as the Dogs are fully entitled to do, and then trading him would be treating Cooney poorly?

Look, the Dogs have to reach 97% of their cap or whatever it is. They have a young list so some guys are going to get overpaid. If the list management said look, "Adam isn't the player he once was but we think he is worth keeping" (as he is still a genuinely good player), and matched that offer, Cooney would be stupid to leave.

And then Cooney (hypothetically) decides he wants to leave, requests a trade and the Dogs do a fair deal to ensure he goes where he wants?

How on earth is that anything like Brisbane in 2009?

Seriously..

Shopping around players who you'd otherwise want to keep when that player is in a position to walkout anyway, albeit a year later in Rischitelli's case. Sure, Cooney might be happy that the club are driving up his value but equally he could feel disheartened that his 8 years at the Bulldogs mean nothing to the club.

The fact that Bradshaw hardly played again and Rischitelli's has only been solid is meaningless as the clubs didn't know that would be the case and Cooney could very easily do the same.

 

[philthy05]

one of two things will happen. cooney will re-sign with the dogs , or cooney will choose to go to another team as a free agent. no team has matched yet , and i doubt the dogs will be the first. if they want cooney that bad they will sign him up before it gets that far. if it gets to the point that cooney is asking to go elsewhere its because the dogs arnt offering him what he wants and they wont suddenly change their mind once the paperwork is lodged with the afl for an offer that cooney wants from another team.

lol at your 20 paragraphs. just go back to your original statement, that gws consider pick one for pick 5 and a free agent. restricted or not. it made no sense, and 20 paragraphs later it makes less. move on.

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

What do you fellas think?

Crameri for Griffen, Wallis and Liberatore? Fair trade for all.

 

[Calcium Man]

So say GWS offer Cooney 800k a year for 4 years. The Bulldogs can match that offer if they choose to do so, and if they do, then Cooney is not allowed to simply leave. He has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with the Bulldogs 3) enter the draft.

If WB match 800k a year over 4 years they've shot themselves in the foot massively.

But i also agree cooney and what ever pick Bulldogs have for pick 1 or 2 is a good option for them. The only issue is i'm not sure Cooney would want to move to West Sydney with his family being happy in Melbourne.

The other option is to trade with Melbourne its win win for both clubs, Melbourne get some leadership and talent in the midfield plus stay in the first round, WB get the KPF they've been wanting since Chris Grant. Still you have to convince Cooney to make that move, why would he want to go to a club to hang around the foot of the ladder for the last part of his career.

A more attractive option maybe a richmond, essendon, Carlton or the Roos for a downgrade of their first pick at 8-12 to the Bullies second pick at 22-24 for cooney (probably need to add something else to sweeten the deal) and use pick 8-12 plus their first pick to upgrade to get Boyd.

 

[Igloo]

I can't see us offering Cooney more than 2 years. I'd only give him 1, personally.

 

[Calcium Man]

Nic nay please but seriously a gun ruck would shake loose pick 1. None of this backup/solid ok rucks. We have one in Giles and they are a dime a dozen from state leagues

As great as it is to say you'll trade pick 1 who is going to trade with them. The mini draft proved that clubs do not want to give up their home grown stars, no champion player wants to move back to west sydney for family reasons.

The only sensible option i can see is the AFL to turn around to the expansion sides and ban them from FA until they have players with 8 years service that can be poached from them. This will force them into a trade with Hawthorn for Franklin giving them the fair price of pick 1 and Adams for Buddy.

Otherwise next year they will be running around with Buddy and another no. 1 pick because put simply the players they want will not be let go by their clubs and they will not give up pick 1 for Cale Hooker.

 

[Swanzforeva]

1st round pick for any decent running backman

 

[Bert Man]

1st round pick for any decent running backman

Ryan Harwood is all yours, but he is more of a midfielder IMO, but is played as a half back.

 

[adambrown]

1st round pick for any decent running backman

Gwilt, Fisher, Gilbert, Dempester take your pick

 

[Swanzforeva]

Ryan Harwood is all yours, but he is more of a midfielder IMO, but is played as a half back.

Bit much for him

 

[TheMcGrathMan]

baahahahahahahhahaha

yeah sure. epic fail.

It's called a hypothetical.

one of two things will happen. cooney will re-sign with the dogs , or cooney will choose to go to another team as a free agent. no team has matched yet , and i doubt the dogs will be the first. if they want cooney that bad they will sign him up before it gets that far. if it gets to the point that cooney is asking to go elsewhere its because the dogs arnt offering him what he wants and they wont suddenly change their mind once the paperwork is lodged with the afl for an offer that cooney wants from another team.

lol at your 20 paragraphs. just go back to your original statement, that gws consider pick one for pick 5 and a free agent. restricted or not. it made no sense, and 20 paragraphs later it makes less. move on.

You were wrong in the first place. I know how free agency works. Here is what you should do:
1) Read the thread title "Trade Hypotheticals"
2) Re-read my post. How does it not make sense within the free agency rules? Offer is made to a restricted free agent, club matches the offer. You embarrassed yourself with your first post by being too quick to jump in and reply, if you took a minute to think before you pressed send you would have realised that as a restricted free agent, Cooney is not just able to leave, and a trade is a plausible scenario.

Shopping around players who you'd otherwise want to keep when that player is in a position to walkout anyway, albeit a year later in Rischitelli's case. Sure, Cooney might be happy that the club are driving up his value but equally he could feel disheartened that his 8 years at the Bulldogs mean nothing to the club.

The fact that Bradshaw hardly played again and Rischitelli's has only been solid is meaningless as the clubs didn't know that would be the case and Cooney could very easily do the same.

GWS making an offer to Cooney is not the Dogs shopping him around, it could just be that they haven't arrived at an agreement by the end of the H&A season and so GWS approach his management. That's nothing to do with any hypothetical poor treatment of Cooney.

Anyway because one other poster is clearly focused on being a moron and not willing to participate in any constructive discussion I'll leave it at that.

 

[tigs2010]

He is a restricted free agent.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-21/where-your-clubs-free-agents-are-at



If you are unaware of how free agency works, for a restricted free agent, a rival club may make an offer to the player of their choice, but if the original club matches that offer he can not simply leave. The player has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with his original club 3) enter the draft.

So say GWS offer Cooney 800k a year for 4 years. The Bulldogs can match that offer if they choose to do so, and if they do, then Cooney is not allowed to simply leave. He has 3 options. 1) seek a trade 2) remain with the Bulldogs 3) enter the draft.

There is a fair chance the Dogs would match the offer for Cooney, and there is no chance Cooney would then enter the draft.

So thanks for your advice, but I'm quite confident I know how AFL free agency works. Maybe you should read up on it as well and quit being a smartarse.

Dogs match GWS offer and he walks to PSD where they will have pick 1. Doubt GWS would want a player his age though.

 

[philthy05]

hypothetical doesnt mean you abandon all logic.

logic says that the dogs will either settle on a deal with cooney or they wont , and he will go elsewhere. why would they not make a deal then match? once they match they have to honour that contract and cannot trade him unless he wants to which would defeat the whole purpose of both teams agreeing to that contract anyway. dogs will not match an offer. will sign him or let him go easy as that.

logic also says that gws doesnt offer $800 000 over 4 years as you suggested.

i dont even see why gws would be after a very good , but 28 year old injury troubled midfielder.

then why on earth gws would see fit to downgrade pick 1 to pick 5 for that restricted free agent midfielder???

 

[Swanzforeva]

Surely Cooney would only get one year contracts