Strategy 2013 v 2014 Draftees, who would you take

[TheHoneyBadger]

I just don't rate him as highly as others.

As bizarre a decision as it was putting Bontempelli at 12, what really boggles the mind is that you've got Dunstan behind Lang, Jones, McCarthy, Lennon, Sheed and a number of players that are yet to debut.

Had a fantastic debut year.

 

[TedDougChris]

2012 v 2013 then?

1: Whitfield v Boyd -> Boyd (always take the big man)
2: O'Rourke v Kelly -> Kelly (easily)
3: Plowman v Billings -> Billings (just)
4: Toumpas v Bontempelli -> Bontempelli (by a street)
5: Stringer v Kolodjsahnij -> Stringer (though less potential)
6: Macrae v Scharenberg -> Macrae (injuries)
7: Wines v Aish -> Wines (tough one)
8: Mayes v McDonald -> McDonald (tough one)
9: Vlastuin v Salem -> Vlastuin (has shown more)
10: Daniher v Freeman -> Daniher (always take the big man)
--
11: Menzel v Sheed -> Sheed (toss up)
12: Jaksch v Lennon -> Jaksch (toss up)
13: Lonergan v Cripps -> Lonergan (by a bit)
14: Corr v McCarthy -> Corr (toss up for GWS fans)
15: Garner v Jones -> Jones (toss up)
16: Thurlow v Lang -> Thurlow (toss up for Cats fans)
17: Simpson v Apeness -> Apeness (toss up for Freo fans)
18: Grundy v Dunstan -> Dunstan (tough one but I'm biased)
19: Kennedy v Acres -> Kennedy (but has less potential)
20: Broomhead v Leslie -> Broomhead (by a bit)

 

[Old navy]

2012 v 2013 then?

1: Whitfield v Boyd -> Boyd
5: Stringer v Kolodjsahnij -> Stringer (though less potential)

8: Mayes v McDonald -> McDonald (tough one)
--
11: Menzel v Sheed -> Sheed (toss up)
12: Jaksch v Lennon -> Jaksch (toss up)
13: Lonergan v Cripps -> Lonergan (by a bit)

17: Simpson v Apeness -> Apeness (toss up for Freo fans)
18: Grundy v Dunstan -> Dunstan (tough one but I'm biased)

Some of these are strange but Sheed over Menzel gives you very little cred

 

[TedDougChris]

Some of these are strange but Sheed over Menzel gives you very little cred

As does saying Stringer has less potential..... And the Grundy decision.... And the Menzel one.... And the Lennon one.... Keeps saying that you always pick the big man (except when a Saints player is involved.... they are always better )

Boyd is ahead of Whitfield on potential only, not on produced form - I'm happy to say this as a Dogs fan. I'd still pick Boyd as he's what clubs need (including ours).

If you are going to do a comparison, at least be honest or consistent....

 

[carnthedons]

As does saying Stringer has less potential..... And the Grundy decision.... And the Menzel one.... And the Lennon one.... Keeps saying that you always pick the big man (except when a Saints player is involved.... they are always better )

Boyd is ahead of Whitfield on potential only, not on produced form - I'm happy to say this as a Dogs fan. I'd still pick Boyd as he's what clubs need (including ours).

If you are going to do a comparison, at least be honest or consistent....

It's pretty tough to take bias out of it. I'd take Stringer & Menzel. The others mentioned are 50-50's for me.

I'd expect the Bombers' fans to take Whitfield, even with the hype train around Boyd at the moment. He'd be a great addition whereas we've got Carlisle/Daniher as young key forwards.

 

[TedDougChris]

It's pretty tough to take bias out of it. I'd take Stringer & Menzel. The others mentioned are 50-50's for me.

I'd expect the Bombers' fans to take Whitfield, even with the hype train around Boyd at the moment. He'd be a great addition whereas we've got Carlisle/Daniher as young key forwards.

In a side where you have young forwards, you don't necessarily need them as badly - so I can understand that view. But Carlton, Saints, Dogs, Fremantle, Richmond amongst others would have all taken Boyd.

But to say the big man always wins, except when he's against a Saints midfielder is exposing yourself to ridicule... And that's nothing against Dunstan, I think he's going to be a good player...

 

[carnthedons]

In a side where you have young forwards, you don't necessarily need them as badly - so I can understand that view. But Carlton, Saints, Dogs, Fremantle, Richmond amongst others would have all taken Boyd.

But to say the big man always wins, except when he's against a Saints midfielder is exposing yourself to ridicule... And that's nothing against Dunstan, I think he's going to be a good player...

Yep, no qualms with that.

FWIW, I'd take Dunstan over Grundy too as I don't think Grundy's going to be all he was cracked up to be and Dunstan looks a beauty.

 

[TedDougChris]

Yep, no qualms with that.

FWIW, I'd take Dunstan over Grundy too as I don't think Grundy's going to be all he was cracked up to be and Dunstan looks a beauty.

Grundy is one of the most promising big men I've seen in the last 20 - 30 years. Got a long way to go and needs to get his body balance right (speed/athleticism vs weight and strength) - but if he does - he'll be a very, very good player...

 

[HARKER]

2012 v 2013 then?
17: Simpson v Apeness -> Apeness (toss up for Freo fans)

Is Apeness that bad?

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

It's Dunstan against Heeney, not Duggan.

Meant Dunstan, not sure why I said Duggan.

 

[gillo94]

Why Sheed over Menzel?

 

[ManOfClay]

Why Sheed over Menzel?

Why mccartin over Boyd?

 

[gillo94]

Why mccartin over Boyd?

Was listening to podcast while back
Tall forwards 193-197 usually become the better forwards than those at 198 to 200cm plus. Not coming from me but might be true

Plus just like more of McCartin in his highlights, I still like Boyd but like McCartin more

 

[ManOfClay]

Was listening to podcast while back
Tall forwards 193-197 usually become the better forwards than those at 198 to 200cm plus. Not coming from me but might be true

Plus just like more of McCartin in his highlights, I still like Boyd but like McCartin more

Fairly odd reasoning. In previous years there hasn't been as many 200cm plus forwards as guys like that were usually ruckmen. Players are getting bigger these days - you wouldn't remember but back 20-30 years ago guys around the 190cm mark were rucking. Nowadays forwards are getting bigger but there isn't that big a sample size to compare them to.

As for the highlights - bit unfair as Boyd was injured during his draft year's champs so didn't get to show off as much, but his clearly superior record to McCartin speaks for itself. If both were in the same draft no team would take McCartin first based off junior form.

 

[gillo94]

Fairly odd reasoning. In previous years there hasn't been as many 200cm plus forwards as guys like that were usually ruckmen. Players are getting bigger these days - you wouldn't remember but back 20-30 years ago guys around the 190cm mark were rucking. Nowadays forwards are getting bigger but there isn't that big a sample size to compare them to.

As for the highlights - bit unfair as Boyd was injured during his draft year's champs so didn't get to show off as much, but his clearly superior record to McCartin speaks for itself. If both were in the same draft no team would take McCartin first based off junior form.

We have to wait say 4-5 years to see who is the better player

I'm not knocking the Dogs as I said I'd take Bontempelli over Pickett atm but still rather have McCartin over both Boyd & Hogan regardless if he cant ruck, just judging them on their abilities as forwards

 

[ManOfClay]

still rather have McCartin over both Boyd & Hogan regardless if he cant ruck, just judging them on their abilities as forwards

Wow. You clearly don't actually watch football

 

[gillo94]

Wow. You clearly don't actually watch football

Why because I'd rather have McCartin over Boyd?

You clearly don't accept the opinions of others

 

[ManOfClay]

Why because I'd rather have McCartin over Boyd?

You clearly don't accept the opinions of others

McCartin over Boyd and Hogan flies in the face of all evidence. I accept others opinions and you are welcome to express yours but that does not mean I have to rate it above a pinch of shit.

 

[gillo94]

McCartin over Boyd and Hogan flies in the face of all evidence. I accept others opinions and you are welcome to express yours but that does not mean I have to rate it above a pinch of shit.

Take a long walk off a short pier

Couldn't care less what you think
My opinion id take McCartin over Boyd and over Hogan

 

[aussierulesrules]

Given that we didn't get to really see the best of McCartin much this year, due to repeated niggling injuries and him being clearly out of shape at the carnival (his skinfolds were reportedly around 80 by the end of his season, which he had reportedly already gotten down to around 64 by the time of the draft), I think it would be a hell of a risk to take him over either Boyd, or Hogan, at this stage, simply because the other two have proven themselves capable of playing to a higher level more than Paddy has.

Given that McCartin was widely considered the likely one to go no.1 earlier in the year- prior to Petracca really blossoming in the midfield- had he had an injury-free year, I think Paddy could have easily been seen as the clear choice to go no.1 throughout the year, but his injury interruptions and being out of shape at the most important time of the season pretty much removed any chance of that being the case and as such I see Boyd and Hogan as both being the safer bets, because we just didn't necessarily really get to see what Paddy was capable of in his draft year, like we did with Boyd and Hogan.

Boyd in 2013 prior to injuring his ankle at the champs was just playing a notch or two above what Paddy generally looked to be this year and Hogan in his draft year was kicking ass at senior level in the VFL, which also trumps anything that Paddy has done to date. Paddy may have matched their feats or at least gone really close this year had he been fully fit throughout, but as he wasn't, it remains a questionmark.

Not saying that Paddy can't go on to have the better AFL career, or reach higher highs than either of those two, as anything can happen, but at this stage I think the other two are clearly safer bets and as such I expect most would pick them ahead of Paddy at this stage, especially since both also have a height advantage over him, apart from anything else.

As "underagers", when they were all playing at the same level and as such on a level playing field, I'm not sure there was necessarily a whole lot in it though, as all were very highly regarded a year out from being "draftable age" and Paddy's 5 goals against a strong Vic Metro team in 2013 and a 7 goal haul in one of his TAC Cup games that year probably matches most, if not anything, that either of the other two did at the same ages (don't remember if either of the other two kicked a bag in the champs in 2012). It's not just all about what they did in their draft year and neither of the other two have really enhanced their reputations since, Hogan due to injury of course and Boyd due to not exactly setting the world on fire in the relatively weak NEAFL, nor in his brief appearances at AFL level, so there may not be as much in it as some suspect. Time will tell though and I doubt anyone at any of the 3 clubs they are at are complaining about having them on their books!

Without being aware of all the behind the scenes stuff like attitude, character, injury issues and so-on, and basing it just on what they've produced so far, their physical and footy attributes and gut feel, I'd likely go 1. Boyd, 2. Hogan, 3. McCartin, at this point in time. But it's probably like deciding whether you'd have the Lamborghini, the Ferrari, or the McLaren!

 

[madman]

In order of who I'd Take

1. Tom Boyd
2. Patrick McCartin
3. Christian Pettracca
4. Angus Brayshaw
5. Darcy Moore
6. Josh Kelly
7. Jack Billings
8. James Aish
9. Isaac Heeney
10. Jarrod Pickett
11. Kade Kolodashnij
12. Marcus Bontempelli
13. Jordan De Goey
14. Caleb Marchbank
15. Mathew Scharenberg
16. Luke McDonald
17. Christian Salem
18. Nathan Freeman
19. Peter Wright
20. Paul Ahern
21. Nakia Cockatoo
22. Liam Duggan
23. Dom Sheed
24. Ben Lennon
25. Patrick Cripps
26. Corey Ellis
27. Lachie Weller
28. Cameron Mcarthy
29. Jarrod Garlett
30. Jake Lever
31. Zak Jones
32. Sam Durdin
33. Darcy Lang
34. Luke Dunstan
35. Blaine Boekhorst
36. Jayden Laverde
37. Kyle Langford
38. Michael Appenes
39. Blake Acres
40. Hugh Goddard
41. Jarman Impey
42. Jack Leslie

Interesting to see how someone who played 18 more games than over half of these players all the way down at 41.

 

[gillo94]

Given that we didn't get to really see the best of McCartin much this year, due to repeated niggling injuries and him being clearly out of shape at the carnival (his skinfolds were reportedly around 80 by the end of his season, which he had reportedly already gotten down to around 64 by the time of the draft), I think it would be a hell of a risk to take him over either Boyd, or Hogan, at this stage, simply because the other two have proven themselves capable of playing to a higher level more than Paddy has.

Given that McCartin was widely considered the likely one to go no.1 earlier in the year- prior to Petracca really blossoming in the midfield- had he had an injury-free year, I think Paddy could have easily been seen as the clear choice to go no.1 throughout the year, but his injury interruptions and being out of shape at the most important time of the season pretty much removed any chance of that being the case and as such I see Boyd and Hogan as both being the safer bets, because we just didn't necessarily really get to see what Paddy was capable of in his draft year, like we did with Boyd and Hogan.

Boyd in 2013 prior to injuring his ankle at the champs was just playing a notch or two above what Paddy generally looked to be this year and Hogan in his draft year was kicking ass at senior level in the VFL, which also trumps anything that Paddy has done to date. Paddy may have matched their feats or at least gone really close this year had he been fully fit throughout, but as he wasn't, it remains a questionmark.

Not saying that Paddy can't go on to have the better AFL career, or reach higher highs than either of those two, as anything can happen, but at this stage I think the other two are clearly safer bets and as such I expect most would pick them ahead of Paddy at this stage, especially since both also have a height advantage over him, apart from anything else.

As "underagers", when they were all playing at the same level and as such on a level playing field, I'm not sure there was necessarily a whole lot in it though, as all were very highly regarded a year out from being "draftable age" and Paddy's 5 goals against a strong Vic Metro team in 2013 and a 7 goal haul in one of his TAC Cup games that year probably matches most, if not anything, that either of the other two did at the same ages (don't remember if either of the other two kicked a bag in the champs in 2012). It's not just all about what they did in their draft year and neither of the other two have really enhanced their reputations since, Hogan due to injury of course and Boyd due to not exactly setting the world on fire in the relatively weak NEAFL, nor in his brief appearances at AFL level, so there may not be as much in it as some suspect. Time will tell though and I doubt anyone at any of the 3 clubs they are at are complaining about having them on their books!

Without being aware of all the behind the scenes stuff like attitude, character, injury issues and so-on, and basing it just on what they've produced so far, their physical and footy attributes and gut feel, I'd likely go 1. Boyd, 2. Hogan, 3. McCartin, at this point in time. But it's probably like deciding whether you'd have the Lamborghini, the Ferrari, or the McLaren!

McCartin will be a superstar trust me

Lucky to have him

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hope you're right mate, I like his attitude and personality and the amount of intense work he supposedly did between the end of his season and the draft, when others that knew they would be drafted might have just put their feet up and taken it easy. He can seriously play too, which also helps!

 

[Periphery]

For me the McCartin v Boyd debate comes down to their cost. If i was picking teams in the schoolyard then I'd probably take Boyd, but if I had to give up what the Dogs gave up for Boyd then I'd take McCartin. I know the whole cost thing isn't really what this thread is about, but I find it pretty hard to over look.

I'd be interested to hear what Dogs fans think they would have done if they had pick 1 this year? Do you think you still would given up as much for Boyd or would you have taken McCartin as a cheaper option while still trading Griffen to GWS?

E: By "this year" I mean 2014.

 

[gillo94]

For me the McCartin v Boyd debate comes down to their cost. If i was picking teams in the schoolyard then I'd probably take Boyd, but if I had to give up what the Dogs gave up for Boyd then I'd take McCartin. I know the whole cost thing isn't really what this thread is about, but I find it pretty hard to over look.

I'd be interested to hear what Dogs fans think they would have done if they had pick 1 this year? Do you think you still would given up as much for Boyd or would you have taken McCartin as a cheaper option while still trading Griffen to GWS?

as non Dogs or Saints fan its a hard question

Option A - Boyd, headaches come trade time and future worries in retaining players with limited salary cap, loosing Griffen in negotiation

Option B - McCartin, less costs in short term and still get compensation for loosing Griffen

I'd take B, even without that question being asked still take McCartin but I could be wrong as I still believe Boyd will be a very good players, tough choice