List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Pannalstaroz]

No pan we just see it dufferently mate

The people guiding this plan are no good and regardless if they gather a list they are incapable of taking it anywhere

Where you see excitement I see more and more wasted years and wasted careers and quite frankly I'm sick to death of waiting and atepting to be positive

We are going nowhere fast under this coach and it really frustrates me that people actually think we are coz the evidence is clear we are not and won't regardless of twisted stats and blah blah

All I want is our club to stop being a joke and irrelevant and I while the monkeys run the zoo we are in for more pain

This is the first time the club has done this. You haven't gone through this before. Just wait. Close your eyes and believe it's 2018. You'll wake up with a smile on your face, a spring in your step and some excitement in your trousers. It'll be amazing.

 

[Igloo]

One more post about coaching and warnings and deletions are happening.

 

[Mattdougie]

Anyway tis off topic

All I'm saying is what we been doin ain't working so for the love of god take risks and try something new

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Anyway tis off topic

All I'm saying is what we been doin ain't working so for the love of god take risks and try something new

Do you believe that an 18yo will be beaten the majority of the time by a 23yo even if the 18yo has more talent?

 

[Mattdougie]

Do you believe that an 18yo will be beaten the majority of the time by a 23yo even if the 18yo has more talent?

Most times

I understand what our saying mate don't get me wrong
What I'm saying is we can't exist with another 4 years of rubbish football out club will be even less than irrelevant

We now need KPS and 25-28 years olds

Then go and bloody get them! It's that simple

Topping up and up on kids that may or may not make it won't ever work, high draft pils are no guarantee of great players.

We have needs full them and stop making excuses, we need to improve NOW!

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Most times

I understand what our saying mate don't get me wrong
What I'm saying is we can't exist with another 4 years of rubbish football out club will be even less than irrelevant

We now need KPS and 25-28 years olds

Then go and bloody get them! It's that simple

Topping up and up on kids that may or may not make it won't ever work, high draft pils are no guarantee of great players.

We have needs full them and stop making excuses, we need to improve NOW!

I agree about the list profile, they're just hard to get. We have been fortunate, IMO to be able to put 6-8 150-200 game kids together at the same time, a bit like Geelong 15 years ago. These players were, and some still are, the backbone of a time off success almost unparalleled. I am hoping these kids now will be our backbone. And we will continue to get better, but yes, now is the time to add some quality talls and some speed.

 

[Super Hans]

Imagine if Geelong traded pick six in 2006, they needed mature players as that's what they lacked to be a proper contender. They drafted Joel Selwood..

Let's just stick to the draft, with our recent drafting I have no doubt we will make a good selection. Hopefully Wright, Lever or Durdin.

 

[Wizard17]

"Topping up and up on kids that may or may not make it won't ever work, high draft pils are no guarantee of great players."

Geelong says hello

 

[Maddog1980]

Back on Foster...Whats the difference between taking with our final pick in the ND or our first Rookie pick? Surely it just makes more sense to nominate him, know that we are not willing to pay anymore than a fourth round and then if ok we take him. Surely there arne't many picks after R5 and before first round of rookies anyway?

Seriously we have been crying our for a KPF for years and we have the opportunity to pick up a cheap TAC cup goal kicking winning FF F/S and we are saying we'll only take him at a Rookie... Doesn't make sense to me...

 

[Super Hans]

Most times

I understand what our saying mate don't get me wrong
What I'm saying is we can't exist with another 4 years of rubbish football out club will be even less than irrelevant

We now need KPS and 25-28 years olds

Then go and bloody get them! It's that simple

Topping up and up on kids that may or may not make it won't ever work, high draft pils are no guarantee of great players.

We have needs full them and stop making excuses, we need to improve NOW!

Geelong, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide all disagree... as do most teams except Sydney. You build a base of young kids, then you go top up with players.

 

[Mattdougie]

Geelong, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide all disagree... as do most teams except Sydney. You build a base of young kids, then you go top up with players.

Oh pogba coming in half way to a convo and going negative against me again

We have the base it's time to start building what we need.


Another 5 young mids will not improve us one bit

 

[Super Hans]

Oh pogba coming in half way to a convo and going negative against me again

We have the base it's time to start building what we need.


Another 5 young mids will not improve us one bit

Who is saying we should take five young mids? The top of the draft is filled with elite key position talent. Wright, Lever, Durdin. Atleast one of these players will be available at our pick.

****, don't take me replying to your posts so personal, I didn't even have a go at you.

 

[The Doctor]

He's not against smalls (Honeychurch/Hrovat etc) BUT they either have to be a bargain or a no brainer. If he's got a 6'4" and a 6' player in front oh I'm who are similar, he'll take the bigger one every time, as long as the kid in question is ruthless.

Oh, that explains why we took Ben Brown ahead of Fuller.....oh hang on.

Dalrymple's record outside of the top 10 picks he has had in the last 2 years has been quite abysmal. He has picked up a lot of short people and useless state league players with these picks.

 

[Mattdougie]

Who is saying we should take five young mids? The top of the draft is filled with elite key position talent. Wright, Lever, Durdin. Atleast one of these players will be available at our pick.

****, don't take me replying to your posts so personal, I didn't even have a go at you.

The top 20 are filled with KPS as I hear it

So we take 1 or possibly 2 KPS with our first and then good old bulldog strategy kicks back in and we recruit another 4 tiny blokes coz apparently they are tough and have good footy brains!!

Predictable and complete lack of courage by our club is getting is nowhere.

We need bigs and 23-26 year olds and this draft should be aimed solely at them and getting them at any cost

We have Libba stringer Wallis JJ Hunter Dahl macrae Bonts jones as good kids

So let's get them help and not waste too many years

 

[Super Hans]

The top 20 are filled with KPS as I hear it

So we take 1 or possibly 2 KPS with our first and then good old bulldog strategy kicks back in and we recruit another 4 tiny blokes coz apparently they are tough and have good footy brains!!

Predictable and complete lack of courage by our club is getting is nowhere.

We need bigs and 23-26 year olds and this draft should be aimed solely at them and getting them at any cost

We have Libba stringer Wallis JJ Hunter Dahl macrae Bonts jones as good kids

So let's get them help and not waste too many years

A couple of 23-26 year old would be nice I agree, but we need KPP, so to trade away our top five pick in a draft where we can get one would be crazy. Most of those kids you mentioned are four years or less into the system, it's not like time is running out. We should be building on those young players instead of getting 26 year olds just for the sake of it.

End of the day we could probably use a little from both sides. Draft a key position player with our first pick, then try and get some more mature players with later picks. I still think the draft is the way to go though, I just don't want to trade our top pick away.

 

[Mattdougie]

"Topping up and up on kids that may or may not make it won't ever work, high draft pils are no guarantee of great players."

Geelong says hello

Wow are you now following me??

So geelongs success was SOLELY on kids continually draft after draft was it ?

And the father son rule didn't help them massively either I guess?? No??

They didn't get a base of kids then introduce older players?? No ??

Ottens? No ??
Pods???? No??

And they didn't also draft KPS ? No

Didn't trade for Mooney? No??

No all best available random picks in the draft is the way they went

WOW

 

[Mattdougie]

A couple of 23-26 year old would be nice I agree, but we need KPP, so to trade away our top five pick in a draft where we can get one would be crazy. Most of those kids you mentioned are four years or less into the system, it's not like time is running out. We should be building on those young players instead of getting 26 year olds just for the sake of it.

End of the day we could probably use a little from both sides. Draft a key position player with our first pick, then try and get some more mature players with later picks. I still think the draft is the way to go though, I just don't want to trade our top pick away.

Would never trade our first 2 picks(unless of course someone like Buddy was available) .

They both must be used for KPS

But then I think this is the year we can use the rest of the picks to go and get some players we need

We have a base of kids to work with, let's have a crack and see of we can improve faster than this bullsh!t 7 year plan

 

[Super Hans]

Would never trade our first 2 picks(unless of course someone like Buddy was available) .

They both must be used for KPS

But then I think this is the year we can use the rest of the picks to go and get some players we need

We have a base of kids to work with, let's have a crack and see of we can improve faster than this bullsh!t 7 year plan

Ooohhh, yeah you're on the money then. The way you were saying it looks like you wanted to move all our picks on for mature players, which is what I was against. I'm not fussed either way as long as we keep atleast pick five.

All depends who is available for a pick in the twenty's, too.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Oh, that explains why we took Ben Brown ahead of Fuller.....oh hang on.

Dalrymple's record outside of the top 10 picks he has had in the last 2 years has been quite abysmal. He has picked up a lot of short people and useless state league players with these picks.

Who?

2011:

• Pick 17, Clay Smith - not a midget, not a useless state league player. Gun who has suffered three freak injuries in 12 months.
• Pick 39, Michael Talia - 194cm KPD.
• Pick 49, Daniel Pearce - ravaged by injury, admittedly has looked poor since his return. McCartney's a fan, though.
• Pick 57, Tory Dickson - has proved more than handy at AFL level, suffered with injury. Height not an issue, marks well in a pack.

2012:

• Pick 21, Nathan Hrovat - midget perhaps, but an exceptional footballer, one we were very lucky to get at that pick.
• Pick 49, Lachie Hunter - hardly a midget, full of talent, was always coming to the Dogs.
• Pick 50, Joshua Prudden - has hardly played any football due to injury (isn't hindsight wonderful), but has looked assured when he's played.

2013:

• Pick 42, Matthew Fuller - has looked poor. Won't be around for long. There you go.
• Pick 60, Mitch Honeychurch - yes, he's short. This hasn't proved a problem for him at all, at ground level or in marking contests.

Smith, Talia, Dickson, Hrovat, Hunter, Honeychurch - I'll put those in the 'Success' basket, given how well they've performed at AFL and VFL level, and irrespective of their height.

Fuller, Pearce and Prudden, I'll give you. Two have suffered plenty of injuries and the latter will attract the ire of many on this board, but I'm prepared to acknowledge these hurt SD's 'strike rate', for your benefit.

That gives us 6 good players from 9 picks, one that we're declaring a failure in his 10th month on our list, and 2 that have suffered repeated injuries despite looking comfortable at AFL and VFL level respectively.

Who have we missed after these players?
PICK 49, 2011 - DANIEL PEARCE - Nobody of note
PICK 50, 2012 - JOSHUA PRUDDEN - Martin Gleeson (#53, Ess, Def), and even that's pushing it.
PICK 42, 2013 - MATTHEW FULLER - Ben Brown (#47, NMFC, Fwd), Tom Langdon (#65, Coll, Def).

We've drafted very well in the last 3 years. While stacking the list with outstanding talent in Stringer, Macrae and Bontempelli, we've been lucky enough to have other players that we've had our eye on slide to lower picks.

So we missed Brown. That's one, and I'm sure they'd put their hand up and say they made a mistake there if questioned. That said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and Fuller looked an astute pick at the time - many of us, myself included, had him playing plenty of AFL footy in 2014.

Historically, we've drafted and traded for KPPs that simply haven't worked out, for one reason or another. That shouldn't be taken as us 'just drafting short people', because it's not true. We can acknowledge that we need to draft KPPs in this year's draft, but let's not jump the gun and crack it when we take a 6 footer at Pick 5 because the quality talls have been selected. I could write a book of short stories on early picks we've blown on dud talls, so let's back the (typically excellent) judgement of Dalrymple and his team, watch with bated breath as to which players are selected in the picks preceding ours, and then, if we haven't already, look into the player we've selected at our pick without cracking the shits because he's not a 200cm, 100kg full forward - if he isn't.

Draft for needs, but draft for the long haul, and draft smart.

 

[Mattdougie]

Ooohhh, yeah you're on the money then. The way you were saying it looks like you wanted to move all our picks on for mature players, which is what I was against. I'm not fussed either way as long as we keep atleast pick five.

All depends who is available for a pick in the twenty's, too.

First couple should ALWAYS be used for kids no matter what

But I'd rather trade a 3rd for someone like Butcher than pick up another bloody 3 foot 3 mid coz he is tough and smart

If we keep going that way we won't beat the auskick kids at half time we will be so small

 

[Mattdougie]

Who?

2011:

• Pick 17, Clay Smith - not a midget, not a useless state league player. Gun who has suffered three freak injuries in 12 months.
• Pick 39, Michael Talia - 194cm KPD.
• Pick 49, Daniel Pearce - ravaged by injury, admittedly has looked poor since his return. McCartney's a fan, though.
• Pick 57, Tory Dickson - has proved more than handy at AFL level, suffered with injury. Height not an issue, marks well in a pack.

2012:

• Pick 21, Nathan Hrovat - midget perhaps, but an exceptional footballer, one we were very lucky to get at that pick.
• Pick 49, Lachie Hunter - hardly a midget, full of talent, was always coming to the Dogs.
• Pick 50, Joshua Prudden - has hardly played any football due to injury (isn't hindsight wonderful), but has looked assured when he's played.

2013:

• Pick 42, Matthew Fuller - has looked poor. Won't be around for long. There you go.
• Pick 60, Mitch Honeychurch - yes, he's short. This hasn't proved a problem for him at all, at ground level or in marking contests.

Smith, Talia, Dickson, Hrovat, Hunter, Honeychurch - I'll put those in the 'Success' basket, given how well they've performed at AFL and VFL level, and irrespective of their height.

Fuller, Pearce and Prudden, I'll give you. Two have suffered plenty of injuries and the latter will attract the ire of many on this board, but I'm prepared to acknowledge these hurt SD's 'strike rate', for your benefit.

That gives us 6 good players from 9 picks, one that we're declaring a failure in his 10th month on our list, and 2 that have suffered repeated injuries despite looking comfortable at AFL and VFL level respectively.

Who have we missed after these players?
PICK 49, 2011 - DANIEL PEARCE - Nobody of note
PICK 50, 2012 - JOSHUA PRUDDEN - Martin Gleeson (#53, Ess, Def), and even that's pushing it.
PICK 42, 2013 - MATTHEW FULLER - Ben Brown (#47, NMFC, Fwd), Tom Langdon (#65, Coll, Def).

We've drafted very well in the last 3 years. While stacking the list with outstanding talent in Stringer, Macrae and Bontempelli, we've been lucky enough to have other players that we've had our eye on slide to lower picks.

So we missed Brown. That's one, and I'm sure they'd put their hand up and say they made a mistake there if questioned. That said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and Fuller looked an astute pick at the time - many of us, myself included, had him playing plenty of AFL footy in 2014.

Historically, we've drafted and traded for KPPs that simply haven't worked out, for one reason or another. That shouldn't be taken as us 'just drafting short people', because it's not true. We can acknowledge that we need to draft KPPs in this year's draft, but let's not jump the gun and crack it when we take a 6 footer at Pick 5 because the quality talls have been selected. I could write a book of short stories on early picks we've blown on dud talls, so let's back the (typically excellent) judgement of Dalrymple and his team, watch with bated breath as to which players are selected in the picks preceding ours, and then, if we haven't already, look into the player we've selected at our pick without cracking the shits because he's not a 200cm, 100kg full forward - if he isn't.

Draft for needs, but draft for the long haul, and draft smart.

Sorry Nathan not sure you can put Talia Honey or Dickson in the success basket yet

Honey probably

Talia will leave the club IMO

And Dickson will end up being a full time VFL player coz he isn't good enough? Who's spot would he take??

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Sorry Nathan not sure you can put Talia Honey or Dickson in the success basket yet

Honey probably

Talia will leave the club IMO

And Dickson will end up being a full time VFL player coz he isn't good enough? Who's spot would he take??

Fair enough, but seeing as we're operating on a success/failure basis (we're willing to describe Fuller, who hasn't yet spent a year at Whitten Oval, as a failure), I listed those as good selections outside the top 10.

Talia leaving the club is pure speculation.

Dickson will take Giansiracusa's spot in the short term. He's quick, a good mark on the lead or in a contest, he kicks well and he creates opportunities to score. I genuinely believe we're a better side with him in it, but I know you're not a fan.

I know you'd probably rather have Honey or Hunter in his spot, but I think both are suited to playing higher in the forward line, and pushing into the midfield at times.

 

[Mattdougie]

Fair enough, but seeing as we're operating on a success/failure basis (we're willing to describe Fuller, who hasn't yet spent a year at Whitten Oval, as a failure), I listed those as good selections outside the top 10.

Talia leaving the club is pure speculation.

Dickson will take Giansiracusa's spot in the short term. He's quick, a good mark on the lead or in a contest, he kicks well and he creates opportunities to score. I genuinely believe we're a better side with him in it, but I know you're not a fan.

I know you'd probably rather have Honey or Hunter in his spot, but I think both are suited to playing higher in the forward line, and pushing into the midfield at times.

Dickson is sh!t and only on out list coz he is another Macca bum buddy mate

Sorry the bloke is only getting a game for us coz we are poor and there is no way on hell we should be playing before Dahl Hunter Honey Grant Jones or Stringer which is the guys he is against

Playing him is simply a poor decision and taking games of kids who are the future

If he is in our side I believe we are going backwards

 

[Igloo]

Once again, stick to the draft.

 

[Wizard17]

Crameri doesn't count as a trade for us? we'll trade to get players but we will only take or so a year for a few years. To say Geelong didn't build nearly entirely from the draft is wrong. To say we won't pick up mature players as rookies or late picks like they did with pods is wrong. Our recruiting over the last few years has been very similar to what Geelong did.

I hardly think Macrae and Bontempeilli where considered "best available" at the time of their drafts Hrovat and Honey where "best available" but they where two of the best players in their groups.

Geelong got Gary Ablett jr as a father son we have libba, hunter and Wallis

We haven't drafted KPs because the last few drafts have been thin as all hell with talls we will draft 2 or so in the main draft and 2 as rookies this year as it has more depth in this area than previous drafts and we had to make sure our midfield wasn't shit enough it would get belted every single week (see Melbourne).

Wow are you now following me??

So geelongs success was SOLELY on kids continually draft after draft was it ?

And the father son rule didn't help them massively either I guess?? No??

They didn't get a base of kids then introduce older players?? No ??

Ottens? No ??
Pods???? No??

And they didn't also draft KPS ? No

Didn't trade for Mooney? No??

No all best available random picks in the draft is the way they went

WOW