- Aug 9, 2012
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This is pre-2014, he and Jon could have massive seasons to warrant a big trading price.
List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread
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- Aug 25, 2012
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Indeed they could, but I make the assumption that we speak of these players as they are right now. After all, both could have shocking seasons and their trade value could go the other way.
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- #103
Just on the Armitage side of things, while he's one of our better midfielders (3rd highest genuine mid in latest Trev Barker) he's simply not consistent enough to be considered a Top-20 pick. Still butchers the ball (2nd highest clangers per game), and the only reason we gave him such a long contract was that we have no immediate replacement for him.
Jack Steven surpassed Armitage even before last season, and Montagna is still performing better at 30 than Armitage who's turning 26 this year when he should really be peaking as an in-and-under type.
The best we could possibly hope for from a trade perspective is that a club who's desperately in need of his type (say, Melbourne or Carlton) pay massive overs during free trade at the end of his contract. This forces the AFL to consider original draft position (1st round - 9th pick) and club need (significant due to Hayes and Montagna likely to have finished well before then).
I like Armitage's endeavour, however I lament his loss of goalkicking skill and he seems to still be paying too much attention to the senior of the senior players who are lost in the 'achievements' of the past, expecting miracles.
Ultimately, he's a victim of the old list. Given more game time he could have really flourished. Personally, I wouldn't be offering anything higher than a 3rd round pick for him unless absolutely desperate to find an inside mid with relative experience.
The only way Armitage could gain value is if Richardson's coaching methods force a slightly different role that masks his deficiencies, and no professional club is going to be easily fooled based on that seen thus far.
Jack Steven surpassed Armitage even before last season, and Montagna is still performing better at 30 than Armitage who's turning 26 this year when he should really be peaking as an in-and-under type.
The best we could possibly hope for from a trade perspective is that a club who's desperately in need of his type (say, Melbourne or Carlton) pay massive overs during free trade at the end of his contract. This forces the AFL to consider original draft position (1st round - 9th pick) and club need (significant due to Hayes and Montagna likely to have finished well before then).
I like Armitage's endeavour, however I lament his loss of goalkicking skill and he seems to still be paying too much attention to the senior of the senior players who are lost in the 'achievements' of the past, expecting miracles.
Ultimately, he's a victim of the old list. Given more game time he could have really flourished. Personally, I wouldn't be offering anything higher than a 3rd round pick for him unless absolutely desperate to find an inside mid with relative experience.
The only way Armitage could gain value is if Richardson's coaching methods force a slightly different role that masks his deficiencies, and no professional club is going to be easily fooled based on that seen thus far.
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- #104
Take a gander in the trade section of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_AFL_Draft
And I think Armitage for a pick in the 40's - 50's is ridiculous, Josh Bruce was a pick in the 40's, Jesse White pick 44, Trent West pick 41 and Viv Michie pick 54. Armo is a cut above all those guys, a similar comparison would be Bernie Vince; averaged 20 disposal, 3 tackles and .6 goals in games last season. Armo averaged 21 disposals, 5 tackles and .5 goals last season. Bernie went for pick 23. On the positive side for Armo, he's 3 years younger than Bernie and should be entering the peak of his career about now. If we traded Armitage in the next 2 years for anything less than a top 25 pick I'd be disappointed.
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I see your point, but let's put it another way...
Next year our 3rd round is likely to be in the 37-40 range, provided no over-achieving occurs and free agency is taken into proper account by all teams.
Considering the team's position last year and the present year's spread of young players, whatever Armitage is earning currently has to be met for him to move. When Hayes and Montagna retire, he's practically guaranteed a starting spot from that point on and his new salary will reflect that.
I dare say that currently he's being paid well over what he's actually worth for the sake of meeting the cap floor, hence the long contract (balances out lower later if necessary). By the time he becomes worthy of a team's interest in becoming 3rd or even 2nd best midfielder, he'd be towards the end of that contract and well over-priced in regards to his likely demand.
By no means will he move for peanuts by that point in his career (28 or over). The draft value has to meet the cap hit for a trade to be viable. Only a desperate club would take him by then without significant improvement.
As a player, he's going to need to be particularly humble in order to be a prime midfielder in any team, let alone our own.
The trade with Hawthorn isn't an accurate reflection towards a future trade for Armitage simply because Hawthorn saw an experienced (possibly disenfranchised) ruckman with a 10-year career ahead of them to be worth a '1st' round pick due to their current cap demands. They will contend for the premiership for the next 3-4 years, where we'll be hoping to get inside the eight by then.
Periphery
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- Jul 25, 2013
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I would think that Armo is being payed no more than what he is worth but that his contract would be heavily front loaded and is possibly having parts of future years payments being paid in advance.
This video explains how teams in our situation will cover the TPP gap that will arise from having a developing team:
That is how we will have a large amount of cap space in 2016-17 so we can be real aggressive in targeting a free agent or two.
There is no way Armo is a 3rd round pick and McEvoy, who is currently 24, wont be playing for 10 more years.
This video explains how teams in our situation will cover the TPP gap that will arise from having a developing team:
That is how we will have a large amount of cap space in 2016-17 so we can be real aggressive in targeting a free agent or two.
There is no way Armo is a 3rd round pick and McEvoy, who is currently 24, wont be playing for 10 more years.
gringo2011
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I can't believe the disrespect to Armo on here. He's been getting better by the year and last season had a couple of BOGs IMO. He needs to find consistency but he hasn't even got to 100 games yet despite his age. He should benefit when Lenny finally retires as he can really take over the role of the midfield general. He really only got played consistently after Ross left and he's getting very close to an A grade player. i remember defending jack Steven on Saintsational from people that said he didn't do enough and now they are on Rhys as the new whipping boy. Luckily the list management isn't left to us fans.
Been some good reading the last couple of pages. I think its been said somewhere in here that the Saints want 3 picks inside the top 20 over the next 3 years, realistically we will be bottom 3 again this year so that gives us 2 picks in the top 20.
Option 1.)
To get that third pick i'd be shopping Gilbert to the Gold Coast for their mid first round priority pick, i think he fits their needs very well and with that mid first rounder hopefully pick up Lever from the Cannons.
Option 2.)
Trade Armo for O'Rourke (GWS) and an exchange of picks hopefully in our favour. (I like my Calder Cannons boys)
Option 3.)
If we were to win less than 5 games this season apply for compo pick, don't like this option but………..
Option 1.)
To get that third pick i'd be shopping Gilbert to the Gold Coast for their mid first round priority pick, i think he fits their needs very well and with that mid first rounder hopefully pick up Lever from the Cannons.
Option 2.)
Trade Armo for O'Rourke (GWS) and an exchange of picks hopefully in our favour. (I like my Calder Cannons boys)
Option 3.)
If we were to win less than 5 games this season apply for compo pick, don't like this option but………..
BrianSpeaking
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When looking to trade it has to be a win-win. Other than Armo who else are we prepared to give up who has real value for the other side? Gilbo has been mentioned, but I think Sam at his best is a beast with more to offer our team. Having such a young list now with a gap to the 30 and overs simply puts Armo in the range of being the main pawn. If he has a good year he is a massive chance to be our next skipper, so it's a delicate balancing act, my gut feel is he will stay as he also protects the young mids with his strong body.
I get the feeling we are aiming for 4 top 20 picks this year, it's a loaded draft as is next years, so we need to load up big time, it will set us up. In 2016 we will be on the upward trajectory with some free agents added with a likely top 10 finish, aiming towards finals in 17 and 18.
Perhaps two lesser ability but experienced players for a top 10 pick to Gold Coast or GWS?
I get the feeling we are aiming for 4 top 20 picks this year, it's a loaded draft as is next years, so we need to load up big time, it will set us up. In 2016 we will be on the upward trajectory with some free agents added with a likely top 10 finish, aiming towards finals in 17 and 18.
Perhaps two lesser ability but experienced players for a top 10 pick to Gold Coast or GWS?
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Gwilt? Our backline is looking pretty crowded now we have some more genuine key defenders.
- Aug 9, 2012
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Gwilt is a free agent.
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Why would he re-sign only to be traded? When he can just go for nothing.
And on previous few years form/knee troubles i don't think he has much trade value.
And on previous few years form/knee troubles i don't think he has much trade value.
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Yeah true, wouldn't know who else to trade that has any experience that we don't need.
Ok, everyone hold on tight. I'ma try and get a new thread going for 2014.
If the entire thread goes missing, I am sincerely sorry.
If the entire thread goes missing, I am sincerely sorry.
Persevering Saint
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Stan_Darsh72
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Whoo Hoo 2014's epic muppetry thread has arrived.
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Surely Dunstan will be a solid 250 gamer with the consistency of say a Scott Thompson/Brad Sewell - solid most years with a few years of near elite footy.
Billings and Acres full of potential.
Defacto
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i agree. i'm luke warm on armo. as someone said, forgot who, his best and worst are poles apart. he's at the age now where you know where hes going to be in 2-3 years time. you know what youve got. his kicking, could be wrong, be his disposal efficiency is atrocious. if you want to look at someone who butchers the ball its him.
EDIT just noticed Noidenous said it way better than i ever could have
BrianSpeaking
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He is a beautiful set shot for goal, hardly misses.
Axcellence
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gringo2011
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I think our best chance of a trade option in the next few years is one of the ruckmen. If Longer and Hickey both come on one could be expendable with Holmes, Pierce and Stanley all viable second rucks. Rucks are alway highly valued. Armo and Gilbert wouldn't get us a high enough pick to justify trading them.
okeydoke7
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I think this would only happen if we suddenly developed amazing depth in the area over the next 2 seasons. To call Pierce and Holmes "viable" options at this stage of their careers is a stretch. The only AFL standard ruck men left would be one of Longer/Hickey and the injury prone Stanley. It's a position we have been left in before (forcing Blake and co to ruck) and I doubt we would consider it. We already traded our big name ruck men and have traded in two younger ruck men in consecutive seasons. The plan seems to be for Longer/Hickey to develop and mature and enter their prime years around the same time. Stanley is insurance and can work to cement a forward position. And Pierce and Holmes can continue to develop and ply their trade in the lesser leagues for now.
Highly doubt either Longer or Hickey will be trade bait. If we look to trade it will most likely be someone with high currency that is at a good age now, but not when we expect to challenge (IE, Armitage) or a type of player that we have a lot of (IE, medium defenders such as Gilbert).
Nobody really wants to point to players we love and say "trade them," so it obviously depends how heavily the club is looking to rebuild through the draft. If it's all about the draft, we need to be prepared for some short term pain and to lose some players that we love (which we have been conditioned for, now).
Persevering Saint
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I don't think that's quite what he was saying. What I think he's saying is, that we've learned that other clubs pay overs for rucks, so we're stocking up on a few. That way, we can develop them, and then sell them off for players we need. That seems pretty savvy, to me.
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