List Mgmt. 2014 list discussion - drafts, free agents, trades, retirees, delistings and more

[manboob]

Yup trade out - Free agency in - and use picks gained from trades to get young talent.

 

[Isaac Norm Smith]

Talk of Taylor Adams or Dees pick 2 for Shaw will see us 'outbid'. We have met with him and are interested but that's a crazy price to pay. Next.

Wonder if they are waiting to see on some of these targets before calling Chappy?

This is true. But Heath will have to agree to the move as well. Not sure he would want to go to Melb or GWS. If the Pies get Adams or pick 2 by trading Shaw and their pick 10 they will have got away with robbery. They somehow managed to get pick 17 for Wellingham last year and pick 20 for Dawes

 

[Catgirl]

Really well mapped out. And i agree we are more 1/2 full than 1/2 empty.

The thing that we need to address is the speed on turnovers going against us. Now I say speed as we seemed to allow players to get over the top of our structures so with the man on we looked slow that gives the appearance of a speed issue. It may be more a structure issue and discipline issue about manning your player or space and not allowing any one to get behind you.

I feel that the glaring issue in the last few weeks of the season was definitely our long kicking. Lower the eyes and hit a free target, we look like a great team with speed and class. Bomb it long to a contest hoping that one of our guys will mark, and 10 times out of 10 an opposition player (usually their ruckman or tall defender) takes the grab. Pretty fixable mistake, but we keep opting for the long kick everytime we get put under pressure, and it plays right into the opposition teams' hands. The boys knew where they went wrong, and the fact they couldn't recover from it straight away really is a compliment to the other teams' pressure.

If fit, our rucks are issues no more. WE still need an inside ball getter but have several that could be good. WE also lack a KPD in waiting. Brown, Hammer, are kind of the short list. Which is short.

We can do this next year I feel, just dont need to lose our heads in the process.

Go Catters

Great sentiments.

Hyphen is ready to take the next step (actually he was ready ages ago) and cement his side in the AFL team, and Caddy and Christensen will only get better. That goes a fair way to solving our midfield issues.

Thought about a legal career? You got it if you want it cause you sure can argue and assert well...

Go Catters

Thanks Daz. Don't really know what I want to be yet, and law always just seemed so depressing to me (no offense if you are a lawyer!)

On BigFooty, 'elite' has dozens of meanings.

I always thought the theme was pretty common.

Elite means in the top 5 or so players in their position. I don't think Kelly, Corey, Stokes, Mackie, Chapman, J Hunt or Lonergan were ever recognised as such.

I already gave my opinion on certain players no put arguing with you, it's like an atheist trying to convince a Christian that religion is a sham.

You gave your opinion on them, and I disputed it with facts and stats. The response I get as a result is a personal attack. If there was a reason not to argue with you, it would be that you're evidently not putting much thought into what you're saying.

I would say elite is All Australian or close to that level for a fair period. Corey, Bartel, Chappy were all elite. Kelly was fairly close, J Hunt and Lonners were good players.

That's called shifting the goalposts to suit yourself. No one on BigFooty, not even the warped idiots on the main board, think that is the definition of elite. But if you do, then that's your opinion.

Solid performers don't win you flags. You need a good core of above average players with decent KPP and top rucks.

I think it's come to the point in our football journey where we can acknowledge that a team of champions is a completely different thing to a champion team. That's one thing Geelong has taught us. Our KPPs and ruck stocks are no longer problems when they're fit.

If you hang onto old players too long you have gaps in experience, you want a couple of quality old guys, a big core of 23-27yo players and a couple of talented young players.

Another thing Geelong has taught us is that age isn't a factor in winning the premiership. If you're good enough when it matters, the year you were born doesn't come into it.

2004 we were a bright young prospect getting a good taste of finals footy. 2011 we were one of the oldest teams to win a premiership ever. We've been on both sides of the scale.

At the moment we have a good bunch of 22yo players which are our new core, those guys and younger need to be pushed through so we have 15-20 players in that range. Then you have the left over older guys which might end up being Mackie, SJ, Taylor, Selwood, Hawkins, Varcoe etc and the youngest end up being the equivalent of Selwood/Menzel/Christensen/Duncan types.

If we continue to play too many old guys then that new core ends up having players who are in their prime but don't have enough AFL experience. Instead of having a whole bunch of 100-200 game players you have guys with 40 games and haven't peaked. We won 3 flags by having a huge group of players around the same age and experience we did that by retiring a few guys a bit early.

Do you know what a core is? Because it certainly isn't made up of 15-20 players. Agree with most of your sentiments here though.

 

[catempire]

catempire , I think we may have been down this path before. Id agree with you that fast majority of trades have one or a blend of issue like those. Who ever brought up Blitz's name probably hasn't really thought it thru. Most trade do not push a player out the door.

I do remember the bets trade we have done in the last 20 years , the one that landed us Ottens involved a "player push" but even then , there are some bits of information that indicate that Moloney being pushed out involved a few other elements.

I feel we are close to needing to do that again. I feel we need an influx of high level talent. We have develop the heck out the guys we have managed to get but sometimes you need to get access to the better end of the draft. Whether its guys on the fringe or guys who have just dropped form , I'm not sure but its time consider this option carefully.

Yes, this is something of an annual rant of mine Turbo. Never seems to lose its relevance though!

As far as I know we don't have the big fish on the line that would cause us to need to shop good players like occurred with Ottens/Moloney.

 

[Claude Balls]

Elite means in the top 5 or so players in their position. I don't think Kelly, Corey, Stokes, Mackie, Chapman, J Hunt or Lonergan were ever recognised as such.

I was just having a laugh, bearing in mind the countless debates on the main board and bay 13 over the years about the exact definition of the word.

Of the above, in my mind, Chapman has definitely been elite, and Corey was on the cusp for a few years in his prime.

 

[bulletproof]

Of the above, in my mind, Chapman has definitely been elite, and Corey was on the cusp for a few years in his prime.

I think Corey has been as good a player as Chapman. His best and fairest finishes would back that up (not a perfect measure I concede).

I heard Thompson on the radio last year, he just laughed when Corey's name was mentioned "all these years you've never cottoned on how good this guy is, when the game is there to be won, he is the one you could rely on, more than anyone in those Geelong teams'

Absolute superstar.

 

[Claude Balls]

I think Corey has been as good a player as Chapman. His best and fairest finishes would back that up (not a perfect measure I concede).

I heard Thompson on the radio last year, he just laughed when Corey's name was mentioned "all these years you've never cottoned on how good this guy is, when the game is there to be won, he is the one you could rely on, more than anyone in those Geelong teams'

Absolute superstar.

Yep fair enough, throw him in the elite category with Chappy, in their respective primes.

 

[Hot Tin Roof]

Key Draft & Free Agency Dates

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-29/key-draft-and-free-agency-dates



Welcome to the Silly Season

 

[Jon Douglas]

Players come in and out of the elite bracket.

Chappy and Corey were both elite players at our club no doubt. Internally highly rated and even outside the club. Both are now not elite if you take the definition Top 5 at the club.

I would say however that Mackie is getting closer. Had the best year of his career in my books and was right up there in being in our top best performers consistently over this season.

I just hope we find out soon what the GFC policy is going to be. Are we going for a clean out of older players like is being suggested by the footy writers and some posters ? Is Enright going to be the only one not to get the chop ?

Not sure what hey will do but I thought they would keep Chappy and Pods but because we have yet to have anyone to replace them that is proven.

I thought JHunt, West, Corey and a younger player would go to make room for rookie upgrades and the 2 compulsory ND picks.

But if we add Pods and Chappy to that mix it may save a younger player and give us more picks - which is good in that aspect - but can our younger guys come in and do a job at a decent level ? That concerns me a bit as my viewing of the VFL GF this year eroded my confidence in some of the younger guys on the list.

Basically Walker and Bews impressed me and the rest had bad days. GHS was ok, Thurlow did little and Kersten was just outright poor. Brown did some nice things but seemed to not like putting the body on the line and that concerned me as well.

In regards to Brown I think he needs to play up forward. He looks much a forward than a backman to me. If Pods goes he could be trialled up forward but does not seem as suited to the physical hack work a KPF needs to do (like Mooney and Pods did).

Kersten looks to small for that role while Walker has the size and aggression for the role - he has not shown enough at senior level yet to convince me he will be good enough.

Vardy looks ok but has not the runs on the board yet either.

Its not really fair as all of them have not had enough senior games yet to get confidence and the necessary experience at this higher level. But that is the point. If we toss aside Pods are we sure one of these guys will stand up and be player that will help us get into the finals next season ? Especially with Hawkins injury concerns. We could end up with Hawkins out and then rely on Walker and Vardy as KPF ??? Wow that would make it hard for us to win games IMO.

Hawkins' issue is a very, very serious issue structurally for the club. Losing Menzel has made this worse and if we have no Chappy as a small effective goal kicker then we are even in bigger trouble.

Maybe the club is really confident Hawkins will come good over the pre-season ? But I think how could they be so confident seeing the diagnosis and treatment over this season was just plain wrong. He was not there and fit when we needed Hawkins - the finals. They should have played Vardy and Walker more often over the season and rested Hawkins.

I was so confident we were going to have a good 2013 and 2014 - now I am very concerned. The forward line looks too inexperienced without a Pods and fit Hawkins.

I think if they move on Pods and Chappy they must know that Hawkins will be fine otherwise these delistings do not make sense to me at all.

 

[cynical]

Elite means in the top 5 or so players in their position. I don't think Kelly, Corey, Stokes, Mackie, Chapman, J Hunt or Lonergan were ever recognised as such.

That's called shifting the goalposts to suit yourself. No one on BigFooty, not even the warped idiots on the main board, think that is the definition of elite. But if you do, then that's your opinion.

Do you know what a core is? Because it certainly isn't made up of 15-20 players. Agree with most of your sentiments here though.

So your definition of elite is top 5 or so players in their position and my definition is clearly stupid?

and yet the players I mention were all top 5 in their position in their prime...

you were probably still playing with dolls when Corey and Chappy were elite

and my definition of core is completely correct maybe you should work on your comprehension skills instead of trying to argue

 

[CharacterFirst]

I'll take that as a compliment I guess...

Ask the users Rainfall and GeelongFTW if you don't believe me about my age.

Well, there you go.

I will have to agree with Oscar Wilde this time (I disagree with him on most things ) - "I am not young enough to know everythng."

 

[Partridge]

Another thing Geelong has taught us is that age isn't a factor in winning the premiership. If you're good enough when it matters, the year you were born doesn't come into it.

2004 we were a bright young prospect getting a good taste of finals footy. 2011 we were one of the oldest teams to win a premiership ever. We've been on both sides of the scale.

Beg to disagree Catgirl, age is absolutely a factor in winning premierships. If you have the inclination look up the ages of our side on Grand Final day in 2007, and then the Prelim side from a week ago. The 2007 had a huge core of players in the prime age bracket - 23-27. Only 5 players older than that, and only ONE player on 30 years or older. Contrast that with the Prelim side, and the hole is in the prime age group - we just don't have enough of them right now. One reason we lost wasn't intensity, or effort, or will to win, it was bodies being physically unable what they used to do.

 

[dazbroncos]

Josh Hunt not offered a contract at Geelong. Able to play on elsewhere but not at Geelong.

Go Catters

 

[Partridge]

Josh Hunt not offered a contract at Geelong. Able to play on elsewhere but not at Geelong.

Go Catters

Geelong website or AFL?

 

[dazbroncos]

Geelong website or AFL?

Both....

Go Catters

 

[bulletproof]

I disagree we should trade for a ruckmen, we have our number 1 combination (Simpson and Vardy). No point breaking the bank for a back up to these guys, who are the perfect combination if they are fit. I would use the rookie draft to draft either a state league player or a player who has been de-listed by another club.

We just need back up if Simpson, Mcintosh and Vardy all get injured.

 

[Partridge]

I disagree we should trade for a ruckmen, we have our number 1 combination (Simpson and Vardy). No point breaking the bank for a back up to these guys, who are the perfect combination if they are fit. I would use the rookie draft to draft either a state league player or a player who has been de-listed by another club.

We just need back up if Simpson, Mcintosh and Vardy all get injured.

There's a guy called West who is a useful backup. Pretty durable too apparently.

 

[The rabbi]

There's a guy called West who is a useful backup. Pretty durable too apparently.

Yes, but what would we have to give up to get him?

 

[bulletproof]

There's a guy called West who is a useful backup. Pretty durable too apparently.

I would keep him on the list if he is happy to stay around. Not the most unlikely scenario.

 

[muttonchops]

.

We just need back up if Simpson, Mcintosh and Vardy all get injured.

Sounds like a post from 12 months ago. This happened. We had 2 blokes called West and Blicavs do the job.

 

[bulletproof]

Sounds like a post from 12 months ago. This happened. We had 2 blokes called West and Blicavs do the job.

And we were top of the ladder after they got us through that tricky period. They did brilliantly for ten weeks. Blicavs is a very exciting prospect but not a number 1 ruck. I think West will go elsewhere as the coaching staff do not have faith in him anymore (not a view i share with them by the way).

 

[year of the cat]

I'd be amazed if West was with us next year. Surely the finals series was the final nail in that coffin.

 

[Catgirl]

So your definition of elite is top 5 or so players in their position and my definition is clearly stupid?

Yeah, I never said that.

and yet the players I mention were all top 5 in their position in their prime...

Go ahead then. List the other 4 players in those top 5s, and the players who missed out.

you were probably still playing with dolls when Corey and Chappy were elite

Yet another Geelong poster that has to resort to referencing my age.

Maybe if you could think of a solid rebuttal, instead of stating your unproven thoughts, you wouldn't have to do that.

and my definition of core is completely correct maybe you should work on your comprehension skills instead of trying to argue

Only comprehension that needs work is yours, buddy. It was a question, not an argument.

It's looking like riling up short-tempered pessimists on here has become a bit of a habit for me...

 

[Catgirl]

Beg to disagree Catgirl, age is absolutely a factor in winning premierships. If you have the inclination look up the ages of our side on Grand Final day in 2007, and then the Prelim side from a week ago. The 2007 had a huge core of players in the prime age bracket - 23-27. Only 5 players older than that, and only ONE player on 30 years or older. Contrast that with the Prelim side, and the hole is in the prime age group - we just don't have enough of them right now. One reason we lost wasn't intensity, or effort, or will to win, it was bodies being physically unable what they used to do.

Good reply. This is what an argument with back up looks like.

I think that our players were expected to do too much, which is why they may have ran out of steam. That, and the facts that key players have been hampered by injury and some of the older guys have declined a little bit. The midfielders' jobs are made much easier when they are getting great delivery from the rucks, and when the forwards they are delivering to are productive and useful. Our mids had neither luxury this year, and finished the season absolutely spent as a result.

I still expect us to be at the top or thereabouts next year

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

This article states we're into North's Luke Delaney. Anyone know anything about him?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-30/trade-preview-what-moves-could-your-club-make