Opinion 2014 may well be the most exciting Collingwood list ever.

[Tarkyn_24]

Deserved a flag mate. They were that good just lacked Jolly and all those guys would have been premiership players.

That and the fact that there were just too many at the wrong stage of their careers. Give Pendles two more years experience, or age Bucks by two less years and we're a premiership team. The best assembly of talent I've ever seen on a Magpies list but the age profiling was horrendous.

 

[Lefthanded]

From a senior perspective I only see Max and Lynch going. Ball may be looked at pending form and body issues.

The 2014 draft is supposed to be a ripper and we also get the chance to add Moore. If the recruiting in 2013 turns out to be as successful as we all hope it will Dekka and Rendell will have some tough calls to make at the end of the year to make space on the list for a serious assault on the 2014 draft.

Yeah I agree. I think Clarke May be struggling to hold his place also so that makes 3.

With all the depth we have acquired we might free up some spots through trade month with players looking for further opportunities. My hope is those players are more your Goldsack/Blair/Sinclair types than your Fasolo/Broomhead/Thomas types

Agree on Maxwell & Lynch plus Clarke. Hudson another that may not stay on the list and if he goes than the mix of seniors vs nominated rookies may change, effectively increasing the telly to 4 spots freed up. Armstrong in a similar boat to Clarke in my opinion so could be a 5th.

Agree with Well Left that others may look for more opportunity elsewhere and part of me hopes this is the case as lack of opportunity in 2014 for our depth players indicates a good run with injuries.

 

[KJpie]

Agree on Maxwell & Lynch plus Clarke. Hudson another that may not stay on the list

I wouldn't keep Huddo on the list this year!

If we are truly looking forward then Huddo becomes a Ruck/ assistant coach.

I still have Knightmares over Huddo's non selection in our first final against Port last year.

 

[Lefthanded]

Agree with OP. The list for 2014 looks excellent. We may go backwards for a time due to inexperience, but we could also make top 4.

The main problems for next year will be the ruck. It's a lot to ask of a 20 year old to be number 1 ruckman for the whole year. Our kicking skills, particularly the 'inside 50' kick to our forwards needs to improve greatly. And perhaps the weakest part of the list, the lack of a forward crumber. I would have kept Andrew Krakouer for this very reason.

I don't really think we've lost experience other than Shaw. 8 players left our senior list at end of 2013 (Shaw, Jolly, Krak, Johnson, Didak, D Thomas, Russell, Paine). Games played in 2013 were 20, 9, 8, 3, 5, 5, 9, 0, hence other than Shaw we haven't lost much on 2013.

From injury we would expect in 2014 to get more from Young, Fasolo, Toovey, Grundy, Beams, Keeffe, Ball (2013 games 2,3,5,7,8,8,13)

We've added White, Adams and two top 10 picks. With a better run with injuries we will finish higher than a team which was 2 wins away from top 4.

Grundy doesn't need to ruck the whole year. That's what Hudson & Witts are for.

I expect Elliott, Fasolo, Kennedy and when resting forward, Beams & Swan to make do in the forward crumbing regard but am more than happy for Cloke, Fas, Reid, Elliott and others to be converting from set shots instead.

 

[Raymond Rougeau]

Cant remeber being so excited in November after a shit by our standards season go pies!

 

[Gambit78]

This list has zero form together as a group, and the form that they did have was good enough to see us finish 8th. And since then, we have shed a lot of big game experience, and brought on a lot of unproven kids. In fact, not a single one will be the matchwinner next year that Shaw or Thomas could have been.

Putting aside the optimism and excitement of what our list could possibly achieve, what you've highlighted here is in part why I feel excited for 2014 - just about our entire list will do a full pre-season. The only real injury that I can recall is Swan's wrist. If all goes to plan, a full pre-season for the whole list will go a long way to correcting what you rightfully point out, which is familiarity; with tactics, game plan, teammates etc...

 

[iGNITER]

Im excited every season.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

I like where this list and the club is going.
Sure we aren't a contender for the premiership but going fwd i believe it has the makings of something special.
I cant see us not making the 8, we have too much quality in the side to drop out IMO.
I just want the players to buy into Bucks game plan.. whatever it is haha

 

[the mighty T]

What makes it so impressive is the amount of young talent now on the list. 7 first rounders in two years if you include Karnezis and Adams is massive! And the major players like Pendles, Beams and Reid are still relatively young.

I'm definitely excited to see us next season

 

[Damon_3388]

We do have a ridiculous amount of depth. Forming a best 22 is super difficult, because in the 15th-22nd player range, there's roughly 15 guys to choose from for about 7 spots.

 

[KJpie]

We do have a ridiculous amount of depth. Forming a best 22 is super difficult, because in the 15th-22nd player range, there's roughly 15 guys to choose from for about 7 spots.

After the last 2 years with form and injuries it will be a welcome problem.

 

[Jelly Bean]

What makes it so impressive is the amount of young talent now on the list. 7 first rounders in two years if you include Karnezis and Adams is massive! And the major players like Pendles, Beams and Reid are still relatively young.

I'm definitely excited to see us next season

I think that is stretching it a little bit, in terms of Karnezis.

His trade value certainly doesn't suggest he was of first round quality. He was traded for a bloke who was a third rounder.

And I could make a case also that while technically in the ridiculously enlongated first round of last year pick 20 (Broomhead) and even Kennedy (19) was a first round, it typcially is a second round level pick in most other years.

But yeah, we do have quite some good young talent.

 

[Old Spice]

I think that is stretching it a little bit, in terms of Karnezis.

His trade value certainly doesn't suggest he was of first round quality. He was traded for a bloke who was a third rounder.

And I could make a case also that while technically in the ridiculously enlongated first round of last year pick 20 (Broomhead) and even Kennedy (19) was a first round, it typcially is a second round level pick in most other years.

But yeah, we do have quite some good young talent.

This is true and I think we need to remember that.

In reality we probably got though 2 top 5 picks in Grundy and Scahrenberg, two mid first rounders in Adams and Freeman and two late first round in Kennedy and Broomhead.

I think though the two cheap steals might even it out somewhat. The big improvement is the mature age drafting which has been an absolute boon for us. Provides the coverage and the competition for spots.

 

[Jelly Bean]

This is true and I think we need to remember that.

In reality we probably got though 2 top 5 picks in Grundy and Scahrenberg, two mid first rounders in Adams and Freeman and two late first round in Kennedy and Broomhead.

I think though the two cheap steals might even it out somewhat. The big improvement is the mature age drafting which has been an absolute boon for us. Provides the coverage and the competition for spots.

Again though, it probably depends on who you ask, as to whether Grundy was a top 5 pick.

No team who had a top 5 pick thought he was a top 5 pick. Not team who had a pick from 5-10 thought he was a top 5 pick. No team who had a pick 10-15 thought he was a top 5 pick. The teams who had pick 16 and 17 didn't think he was a top five pick. I'd be surprised if Hine thought he was a top five pick....

I'm looking for evidence that Grundy was a top 5 pick, and am coming up quite short... All I can see is some blokes with anonymous user names on internet forums suggesting he would be. I'd back the recruiters validated opinion over those opinions.

 

[Old Spice]

Again though, it probably depends on who you ask, as to whether Grundy was a top 5 pick.

No team who had a top 5 pick thought he was a top 5 pick. Not team who had a pick from 5-10 thought he was a top 5 pick. No team who had a pick 10-15 thought he was a top 5 pick. The teams who had pick 16 and 17 didn't think he was a top five pick. I'd be surprised if Hine thought he was a top five pick....

I'm looking for evidence that Grundy was a top 5 pick, and am coming up quite short... All I can see is some blokes with anonymous user names on internet forums suggesting he would be. I'd back the recruiters validated opinion over those opinions.

For a team who has patience I think he'll come to prove that type of weighting was correct (#5).

 

[KJpie]

No team who had a top 5 pick thought he was a top 5 pick.

Or they had enough Ruck's on the list and instead picked another top rated player that suited their needs.

 

[jonbe54]

Or they had enough Ruck's on the list and instead picked another top rated player that suited their needs.

I think that's the crux of the matter KJ he feels like a top 5 pick for us because he filled a void desperately in need of filling.

 

[Dundalis]

Tough call Matty,

The list a year or 2 prior to both recent premierships were looking special. For mine I'll go with the pre 1990 premiership list. That team should have won more than one flag, maybe both should have.

I'm also looking forward to seeing our list at the end of next year??

From a senior perspective I only see Max and Lynch going. Ball may be looked at pending form and body issues.

The 2014 draft is supposed to be a ripper and we also get the chance to add Moore. If the recruiting in 2013 turns out to be as successful as we all hope it will Dekka and Rendell will have some tough calls to make at the end of the year to make space on the list for a serious assault on the 2014 draft.

The Pies team in 1990 was nowhere near the most talented team in the league. They had no one that was genuinely regarded as perhaps the best player in the game like Swan and Pendles are (except perhaps in the minds of one eyed Pies supporters). The 2010 team was more talented IMO.

I'm also not sure what a strong 2014 draft is going to mean in comparison to this recent draft. Unless we tank, we aren't going to get the quality of talent we've likely got with two top 10 picks in this draft (whether we hit with them is another story).

As far as this thread goes, for me the two biggest things to look for this season is whether Reid can be a genuine 50 goal forward to support Cloke, and whether Grundy can be a high quality number 1 ruck as soon as next season. I think if those two things happen it will have the biggest impact for us. Reid being a genuine high quality second option would make a large difference to the predictability of our forward line.

We will still have some weaknesses until some of our younger players including this years draftees come on. But in two or three years I think we will have a pretty well balanced list. I think all we are missing is some genuine high quality ground level players up forward. Elliott is a talented player, but like Medhurst he's in his element as a marking small forward, and isn't as good for a small player when the ball hits the deck. A player like Garlett would have been a pretty good get for us if we had the pick to get him and were willing to back our culture in like the Hawks have.

The only other possible issue might be young key position players, but that's being planned for with the upcoming KP heavy drafts.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Again though, it probably depends on who you ask, as to whether Grundy was a top 5 pick.

No team who had a top 5 pick thought he was a top 5 pick. Not team who had a pick from 5-10 thought he was a top 5 pick. No team who had a pick 10-15 thought he was a top 5 pick. The teams who had pick 16 and 17 didn't think he was a top five pick. I'd be surprised if Hine thought he was a top five pick....

I'm looking for evidence that Grundy was a top 5 pick, and am coming up quite short... All I can see is some blokes with anonymous user names on internet forums suggesting he would be. I'd back the recruiters validated opinion over those opinions.

All valid points on Grundy. However if he was in this years national draft after playing with Collingwood this year would he go top 5? Or would there be a team with a top 5 pick willing to swap it for Grundy? I think there might be a few who would.

 

[Robroy22]

The Pies team in 1990 was nowhere near the most talented team in the league. They had no one that was genuinely regarded as perhaps the best player in the game like Swan and Pendles are (except perhaps in the minds of one eyed Pies supporters). The 2010 team was more talented IMO.

OMG

Peter Daicos: Perhaps the best small forward the game has ever seen. (97 goals that year) Not a star?
Gavin Brown: Multiple Copeland trophy winner, Vic State Captain and Whitten Medallist for best player in the state carnival (that's like best in all of Australia....not just this state) Not a star?
Darren Millane: VFL MVP 1990 voted by his peers. Not a star?
Graham Wright: Runner up in the Brownlow 1990...that's as good as Pendles has done isn't it? Not a star?
Tony Shaw: Norm Smith medallist 1990, Club games record holder. Not a star?

Seriously man I love the way Swanny and Pendles play and the enjoyment they've given us as supporters but Daicos, Brown and Millane were at least their equals (Daics probably better)

Don't undersell the champions of the past. They have a way of making you look silly.

 

[johncitizen]

Gavin Brown played FF in 1990 and kicked 76 or 77 goals..+ Daicos 97 ..what a year that was

 

[RobbyTMagpies]

I like where this list and the club is going.
Sure we aren't a contender for the premiership but going fwd i believe it has the makings of something special.
I cant see us not making the 8, we have too much quality in the side to drop out IMO.
I just want the players to buy into Bucks game plan.. whatever it is haha

Why not?

 

[Jelly Bean]

Gavin Brown played FF in 1990 and kicked 76 or 77 goals..+ Daicos 97 ..what a year that was

Gavin Brown kicked 49 goals in 1990.

 

[Scodog10]

Again though, it probably depends on who you ask, as to whether Grundy was a top 5 pick.

No team who had a top 5 pick thought he was a top 5 pick. Not team who had a pick from 5-10 thought he was a top 5 pick. No team who had a pick 10-15 thought he was a top 5 pick. The teams who had pick 16 and 17 didn't think he was a top five pick. I'd be surprised if Hine thought he was a top five pick....

I'm looking for evidence that Grundy was a top 5 pick, and am coming up quite short... All I can see is some blokes with anonymous user names on internet forums suggesting he would be. I'd back the recruiters validated opinion over those opinions.

I understand the logic of your opinion, however there is just no way I can agree with it. If the 2012 draft was redone today there is no bigger rolled gold certainty than GWS taking him at 3 over Plowman. He is a top 5 talent from that draft whether drafted at that point or not.

FWIW I think we get too rapt up in the number of the draft pick rather than the player themselves. As soon as they get into the club that number is forgotten. For instance JT was taken at 75 I believe in 09, but is now IMO a top 30 talent from that draft.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I understand the logic of your opinion, however there is just no way I can agree with it. If the 2012 draft was redone today there is no bigger rolled gold certainty than GWS taking him at 3 over Plowman. He is a top 5 talent from that draft whether drafted at that point or not.

FWIW I think we get too rapt up in the number of the draft pick rather than the player themselves. As soon as they get into the club that number is forgotten. For instance JT was taken at 75 I believe in 09, but is now IMO a top 30 talent from that draft.

Yep, and it is the difference between a top 5 pick, and a top 5 talent, I think.

A top five 'pick' (in addition to actually needing to be a player picked in the top 5) is someone who at the point of drafting was considered by at least one recruiter to be worth a top 5 pick. It is specific to that point in time and to those professionals participating in the actual recruiting process.

A top five 'talent' can be assessed at any point before or after and by anyone. The variance is then just all about whether you agree with the person's assessment of that player being worthy. Purely subjective.