Preview 2015 Grand Final: Hawthorn v West Coast Eagles - Gunston IN, Hartung OUT

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Is Jed the answer?? despite his lack of game time in the ones.. is fit, in form, hard at it, a goal kicker..not sure what his ball use is like!

Big call, has he even played a game this year?

Not the game to experiment I would've thought.

ps: even though he'd be the perfect sub (won't happen)

 

[walhawk]

Hartung out for Gunners gives our best 22.
Pick the best 21.
That's leaves the Shoe as sub to come on for one of Hale, Lake or Gunners at 3/4 time.
Beautiful.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Langford won't get a game. His disposal has been really poor, he's gone backwards in this area. Can win his own ball but in the GF this Sunday gone he butchered some very basic kicks under no pressure.

 

[Samurai Hawk]

Big call, has he even played a game this year?

Not the game to experiment I would've thought.

ps: even though he'd be the perfect sub (won't happen)

think he played a few early.. haven't seen any BH games this year live having moved O/S in April.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Hartung out for Gunners gives our best 22.
Pick the best 21.
That's leaves the Shoe as sub to come on for one of Hale, Lake or Gunners at 3/4 time.
Beautiful.

Schoey is not sub material. He either starts or he'll miss out

 

[The Lemon]

Langford won't get a game. His disposal has been really poor, he's gone backwards in this area. Can win his own ball but in the GF this Sunday gone he butchered some very basic kicks under no pressure.

Poor disposal? Hill would never play again in that case

 

[Argy]

So that means Hartung out, Suckers sub?

Doubt that will happen. Suckling's kicking is vital to get outside the zone defense (aka the web as Christened by some knob in the press) that WC use.

 

[Clarkos_Soldier]

I put the below reply earlier to explain the Eagles web system. It just requires us to play the way we did against Adelaide and Fremantle. Fast ball movement. Run through the opponents defence lines and kick accurately over it when you get the chance. It's nothing to be concerned about. Clarko invented it. It's just a slightly different version of the Clarko Cluster. I deliberately did the diagram on the MCG because as you can see it is wider and leaves more of an area on one side which we can use to kick around. At Domain the web works better because of the narrower ground.

View attachment 178042

Actually it's pretty simple technique that requires great coordination and discipline.

The web is another version of Clarko's cluster but with one difference. Instead of a general zone, you create layers of defence which can dynamically move with the movement of the ball. The idea is to have a line of defence at critical spaces between the ball carrier and the attacking targets. So you setup the layers or web of defence at interval that way you have players to contest no matter what the ball carrier decides to do. Importantly, it also allows the team to have an avenue of attack as soon as the ball is won back. The opposition will likely be caught out and a switch and hard running ensures that you can get them on the counter without them being able to get back in time. IT seems the way to beat the web is to play one on one like Kangaroos did in the first term. Don't allow West Coast to have the counter attack option. But North could not keep it going. It's a very exhaustive way of defending if your players are not as skilled as theirs.

Been reading up on his this "Web" works - seems to be that they set up to stop short kicks specifically and force the long kick to the line, with as many players within 60 metres of the ball carrier as possible.

 

[walhawk]

Hartung out for Gunners gives our best 22.
Pick the best 21.
That's leaves the Shoe as sub to come on for one of Hale, Lake or Gunners at 3/4 time.
Beautiful.

Why?
Late in the game on a dry day someone who can take a mark is more valuable than run.
What if we go in with no Shoe, Hartung is the sub and one of Hale, Lake, McEvoy, Gunston, rough, Gibbo or Frawley go down first 10 mins?

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Why?
Late in the game on a dry day someone who can take a mark is more valuable than run.
What if we go in with no Shoe, Hartung is the sub and one of Hale, Lake, McEvoy, Gunston, rough, Gibbo or Frawley go down first 10 mins?

We are very flexible...Shoe starts or he's in the stands

 

[StillAtLarge]

Is Jed the answer?? despite his lack of game time in the ones.. is fit, in form, hard at it, a goal kicker..not sure what his ball use is like!

Was our best player on Sunday but hasn't had a breakout senior game this season. Would be a big chance to come in for Breust, Cyril or Pops if they were injured but probably not Hartung.
Jed is a strange one. An absolute battering ram yet there ain't much of him which makes him susceptible to injury. Plays tall, knows where the goals are but often doesn't find all that much footy when he's in the guts.
He's a small forward in a squad containing the best small forwards in the league. Gut feel is he'll be somewhere else next season.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

I put the below reply earlier to explain the Eagles web system. It just requires us to play the way we did against Adelaide and Fremantle. Fast ball movement. Run through the opponents defence lines and kick accurately over it when you get the chance. It's nothing to be concerned about. Clarko invented it. It's just a slightly different version of the Clarko Cluster. I deliberately did the diagram on the MCG because as you can see it is wider and leaves more of an area on one side which we can use to kick around. At Domain the web works better because of the narrower ground.

I completely agree.
We will dismantle it in front of the world

 

[Bikefreak]

I have similar fears re: Billy but Langford isn't the answer. He butchered the footy something shocking on Sunday. Eagles kill teams on transition from turnovers like no other.

Just like we can when we are on.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Eagles last 2 games outside of Perth, 9 goal loss to Adelaide and a draw with the Gold Coast.

 

[QuietB]

Doubt that will happen. Suckling's kicking is vital to get outside the zone defense (aka the web as Christened by some knob in the press) that WC use.

It is a question of what is more important though. Sucking kicking it, or Schoenmakers contesting that kick?

 

[mikeder]

The WCE forwards exposed us in the QF predominantly because of how we matched up. We literally couldn't have lined up much worse. Frawley at CHF & Lake on Kennedy is just crazy amounts of dumb... We had very little run from defence, but we were also defending from quite deep. We usually defend at Half Back & use the Full Back line for switching the ball & rebounding out the other way (why we always appear to give up cheap goals out the back). WCE dominated the mid-3rd of the ground & their Half-Forward (our HB) & had us defending at FB, leaving us to bomb long to clear the ball, which they owned.

In the QF, Kennedy had 26 disposals, 3.2 & 9 marks. He was also hugely effective in marking the ball 45m-60m from goal & delivering to Hill (3.0), LeCras (2.1) & Cripps (2.1). He ran Lake around & literally did what he wanted to. He was their match winner (others were contributors).

In the PF, Kennedy had 20 disposals, 2.3 & 9 marks. He was the player that kept them in it for Q1 - his work & his determination & run up the ground were brilliant. He dominated Scott Thompson in brain power & strength & just not being a dic**ead (sorry, can't stand Thompson...)! Again, he marked & scored from 45m-55m whilst also hitting up overlap runners for cheapies over the top.

IMO, we need to stop Kennedy marking the ball 45m-60m from goal. But wait... Where on Earth do we get a defender who can match Kennedy for pace & physical strength? The kind of defender who can play a lock-down, one-on-one role that keeps the league's best forwards to the following numbers:

- Tex Walker to 1.3, 10 disposals & 6 marks (SF);
- Buddy Franklin to 0.0, 7 disposals & 3 marks (Rnd 8); &,
- Combined to keep Hungry29, Maine & Taberner to 2 goals in the Prelim Final.

If only we could use our Chip Frawley - our QF CHF (just so dumb) on the best forward in the AFL to whom he's perfectly matched????

Jack Darling has played 14 games for 25 goals in 2015 - Gibbo can well & truly handle him & he's not nearly as damaging a high half-forward as Roughy or Gunston are. Stratton to LeCras & Doc/Burgoyne to Hill. This forces WCE's hand.

WCE usually prefer to rest a ruckman on the bench, allowing them to drift forward during regular play whilst also having an extra runner around the ball, but they'll not be able to leave Lake unattended as he'll chop off every high ball without contest. So they'll have to play/rest a ruckman at FF. This makes them top-heavy, or, clogs up free space that Cripps, LeCras, Hill et al would usually overlap run into when Kennedy has marked, 55m from goal. WCE's Forward 50m just got cramped, quick.

If Chip can force a contest on Kennedy at Half-Back or the flanks & force the ball to ground rather than giving up marks within 60m, we run a very good chance of clearing the ball quickly & hitting up our mobile Half-Forwards in Gunston, Breust & Roughy, or setting Smitty/Hill into space, rather than being constricted by the net or web or whatever they've renamed the Cluster; we'll also get to keep Popeye & Cyril near the F50m for when Hale/Schoey bring the ball to ground instead of having them at HB/Wing trying to run the ball forward. Alternately, if they win the disputed ball then they'll likely go inside F50m under pressure, which is how Lake wins Normies!


If we:

- pressure or restrict Kennedy;
- defend at HB, giving us room at FB to switch;
- use the width of the 'G well when heading forward; &,
- at least bring the ball to ground in our F50m if we can't mark.

We'll win.

Well put Brant. Also none better than Chip to keep Kennedy in check

 

[StillAtLarge]

Poor disposal? Hill would never play again in that case

Have a look at any of our forwards on a lead the next time Hill is running at them with the footy. They'll be busting out of their shorts, it's a perfectly caressed pass every time.

 

[mikeder]

1. Frawley can match Kennedy for speed easily.
2. Using stats from 2005 to back up his point? They have played one game there this year.
3. Using our 2008 performance as merit in beating us? Again, how is this relevant to this Saturday?
4. He says Frawley has looked lost in finals. Funny, he looked lost in the first half of the QF, moved down back, stopped Kennedy. Demolished Tex in the semi and beat Pavlich easily in the Prelim. Do these guys do any research or just make up shit?
5. If West Coast had a better attack wouldn't they have a higher percentage than us? I am pretty sure we have averaged the most goalkickers this year.

Honestly, all of these points are false or favour Hawthorn. Brendan Foster, you are an idiot.

Excellent point too Wbby. Well said!

 

[mikeder]

The Hodge stuff is just a media beat up, players have light weeks on the track and or miss training all the time at this time of year..... Anyways 96 hours to go wowser.

You know what you are talking about mate!!!!!

 

[Tyrone Time]

Poor disposal? Hill would never play again in that case

Or Lewis.

 

[Xtreme]

Or Lewis.

Hawka to replace either

 

[Thaihawk]

What do I get if the Eagles win?

Something you can tease Freo with.

 

[pantskyle]

Something you can tease Freo with.

I have three of those already

 

[mikeder]

I think people forget that the Eagles second ruckman Callum Sinclair is actually a really really good player - Might not have the flair of Nic Nat (who does?) but can be really damaging around the ground and is a solid mark. I'd be worried taking in only one ruckman

Nic Nat has the flair accepted, but doesn't have the speed when running. If you look at him you will see he has an awkward running style, whereby he leans forward as though he is trying to keep his balance, and with that he doesn't chase the ball much either.I bet Sinclair runs a lot better than Nic Nat though.

 

[BOP66]

Eagles last 2 games outside of Perth, 9 goal loss to Adelaide and a draw with the Gold Coast.

Very, very interesting.