List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Draft, Rookie Draft and FA Megathread

[Tommy Wigs]

Or, in other words, Stav or Mg, help!

 

[psychosaints]

Ha! your on the money; and thats why I have avoided the Essendon board this week, the hypocrisy only gets my blood boiling...

I've been pretty quiet on here this week, just reading about it all the scenarios but I have to say this.
These Essendon supporters that say that they want to trade with Hawthorn, crack me up. Why would Essendon ever want to help Hawthorn? In the 80's they hated each other. Now, they are only 3 flags behind them and these supporters are saying the would rather trade Carlisle to Hawthorn. So they want to help them fill the hole left by Lake retiring and give the Hawks a chance at going 4 straight and only being 2 flags behind them for what? To spite us? Why? Idiots. We are realistically 2 years away from finals, let alone challenging for a flag.
I think there's more to it. These same supporters are just p!ssed at the saints because we smashed them this year by 110 points which started the media calling for Hirds head. Which the bombers board have now openly admitted that the saints loss was the beginning of the end. To these delusional lot, you don't dare go after 'Sir James'. That and the fact we didn't cave to their demands for pick 5 straight away. I mean 'how dare StK not do as we say, we have 16 premierships!'. This is the exact reason why Essendon are where they are at. They still think they are relevant in the football world based on their success of a by-gone era. This club has been irrelevant on field for 15 years. Whatever happens in the Carlisle deal, I hope it's the worst possible outcome for Essendon, just to spite these delusional dimwits!
Rant over.

 

[goodie23]

I'm happy with how the Saints haven't stooped to Dodo's level. He really is living up to his reputation, leaking to the media, negotiating with other clubs without the player's consent, taking potshots at us. All this reeks of desperation. Just ride it out and get the the deal which gets Jake to the Saints are a reasonable cost, even if it's sent through at the very last moment.

What the hell's the damn hurry anyway?

 

[plugger66]

I'm starting to think we now just use pick 5 on Carlisle and hopefully get one second rounder in return. Even if we don't get that then just trade it. We get 160 games guaranteed baring injury compared to a pick 5 that could be pendles but could also be Fiora. Its a hell of a lot to pay but when you look at using pick one on McCartin last year then it looks a bloody good deal. No hurry yet but if nothing isn't happening late in trade we just have to do it. Even though Carlisle is showing loyalty to us that may change if late next week he still hasn't got a club and who will blame him. Probably a few actually but it wont be me.

 

[Stewart66]

Nat Edwards is self confessed dyed in wool Hawks fan. That's probably why.

We know trust me

 

[TheJackal]

I'd happily pay 23, 24, 25 & next years 2nd rounder to Collingwood for Freeman, 7 and Collingwoods 3rd (used towards points for Rice). Next years second is probably in play for Freeman anyway, so all four picks, potentially even five (include Pies second next year) would go to GWS and have a higher points value than two firsts and would also be averaged out over two years for their academy players.

Collingwood are (I feel ill saying it) being respectful and fair in staying out of the media - yes they have plenty of fish to fry but they could've easily smashed us when we got blindsided by Dodoros unsuccessful tactics.

I probably sound like a broken record and I know it sounds like overs to Collingwood, but if we get Rice, Carlisle, Freeman and the potential superstar in the mould of Lenny that we wanted for pick 5 - well, we can't lose.

Do it Saints!

 

[bird_man]

I'm starting to think we now just use pick 5 on Carlisle and hopefully get one second rounder in return. Even if we don't get that then just trade it. We get 160 games guaranteed baring injury compared to a pick 5 that could be pendles but could also be Fiora. Its a hell of a lot to pay but when you look at using pick one on McCartin last year then it looks a bloody good deal. No hurry yet but if nothing isn't happening late in trade we just have to do it. Even though Carlisle is showing loyalty to us that may change if late next week he still hasn't got a club and who will blame him. Probably a few actually but it wont be me.

If we can turn our two second rounders into Sydney's pick 14 I thinks we should do this Plugger. Otherwise their won't be a lot left with our picks, will turn into high 20 picks and to me the draft seems to drop off after the top 20.

 

[MadSaint66]

That deal sucks. We get two out of contract players one totally unproven with injury issues, the other with drug conviction possibilities and give up a top 5 pick?
No.

...and pick 5 is just as unproven. We could flunk and get a Watts, Tambling or Gumbleton.

 

[felsty]

If we can turn our two second rounders into Sydney's pick 14 I thinks we should do this Plugger. Otherwise their won't be a lot left with our picks, will turn into high 20 picks and to me the draft seems to drop off after the top 20.

I actually think the 20-30 range will provide some really good players, especially early on. Clayton Oliver, Mitchell Hibberd, I would imagine Gresham falls there ala Lewy Taylor, Bonner at a stretch.
In a lot of ways those players fit our midfield requirements more than what a Mathieson or Francis would, maybe not to the same high level but they will still be quality players. Especially Hibberd. Think I have finally found my boy!!

 

[Periphery]

I'd happily pay 23, 24, 25 & next years 2nd rounder to Collingwood for Freeman, 7 and Collingwoods 3rd (used towards points for Rice). Next years second is probably in play for Freeman anyway, so all four picks, potentially even five (include Pies second next year) would go to GWS and have a higher points value than two firsts and would also be averaged out over two years for their academy players.

Collingwood are (I feel ill saying it) being respectful and fair in staying out of the media - yes they have plenty of fish to fry but they could've easily smashed us when we got blindsided by Dodoros unsuccessful tactics.

I probably sound like a broken record and I know it sounds like overs to Collingwood, but if we get Rice, Carlisle, Freeman and the potential superstar in the mould of Lenny that we wanted for pick 5 - well, we can't lose.

Do it Saints!

I 100% agree with this. I don't think 23+24+25 gets the deal done for 7 and Freeman, but add in next years 2nd and it does. However, I doubt that the Pies would want to wait for us to get the Carlisle trade done before working out the Treloar deal.

 

[Rors]

I've been pretty quiet on here this week, just reading about it all the scenarios but I have to say this.
These Essendon supporters that say that they want to trade with Hawthorn, crack me up. Why would Essendon ever want to help Hawthorn? In the 80's they hated each other. Now, they are only 3 flags behind them and these supporters are saying the would rather trade Carlisle to Hawthorn. So they want to help them fill the hole left by Lake retiring and give the Hawks a chance at going 4 straight and only being 2 flags behind them for what? To spite us? Why? Idiots. We are realistically 2 years away from finals, let alone challenging for a flag.
I think there's more to it. These same supporters are just p!ssed at the saints because we smashed them this year by 110 points which started the media calling for Hirds head. Which the bombers board have now openly admitted that the saints loss was the beginning of the end. To these delusional lot, you don't dare go after 'Sir James'. That and the fact we didn't cave to their demands for pick 5 straight away. I mean 'how dare StK not do as we say, we have 16 premierships!'. This is the exact reason why Essendon are where they are at. They still think they are relevant in the football world based on their success of a by-gone era. This club has been irrelevant on field for 15 years. Whatever happens in the Carlisle deal, I hope it's the worst possible outcome for Essendon, just to spite these delusional dimwits!
Rant over.

The irony is lost on them. Pick 5 puts them with back to back picks in the elite end of the draft, but instead they believe it's not a fair deal & want to take Hawthorn's pick 15 & 18, so they can trade down to a worse pick in pick 8 from GWS....?

Just ****ing idiots IMHO

 

[holllywood]

The irony is lost on them. Pick 5 puts them with back to back picks in the elite end of the draft, but instead they believe it's not a fair deal & want to take Hawthorn's pick 15 & 18, so they can trade down to a worse pick in pick 8 from GWS....?

Just ******* idiots IMHO

And if they finally do cave in, they win because Bains said pick 5 was not on the table to start and it's a weak draft etc.

Defense mechanisms game strong after ASADA saga.

 

[Stewart66]

I think back to the start of trading and Dodoro putting the responsibility to come up with a third pick option on the saints and refusing to do third party deals and i now think 2 things

1 That Dodoro had the Hawks deal in mind all along and hoped through media manipulation he could convince Carlisle to take the Hawks deal

2 That with the Saints reportably good relationship with GWS they brought the possibility of 23 +24 for 8 to the table and said Dodoro look take ............. stkilda player + 24 and turn it into 8. Dodoro said no i want 5 Ameet went ok but u need to fill the gap to turn 24 into 8 and then dodoro went no that is ur responsibility to sort out.

Dodoro then went 4+8+15+18 is better then 4+8+22 or 4+5+25 and set to work

We were always after Matho who would likely slide if Dodoro agreed not to draft Matho in a friendly arrangement

Ameet is now saying u want 5 fine give us the points to get 8 + damages for trying to screw us around and thank you for pushing Carlisle to considering the PSD as an option
The deal may evolve into a trade of seconds and 3rds depending on what GWS would want for 8 but i would not expect Ameet to be "fair" from here on
Dodoro went for Ameet personally if Carlisle had taken the Hawks offer it could of been his job (we would still love him but you know what i mean)
You saw the media frenzy when they thought the Hawks had grabbed him and the headlines about how unprofessional the saints are I think Ameet would want if anything to twist the knife not come to reasonable terms
This has been a pretty ugly story that could have been avoided if Dodoro was a different sort of operator

And importantly now Jake has seen Saints include pick 5 included in the deal.
His manager has strongly supported that he wants to play at Stkilda no other club.
Happy Essendon have knocked the deal back.
Walk him thru the Psd if the Bombers don't agree , the player & his manager all the way.

I want Ameet to do a number on him.

 

[bird_man]

And if they finally do cave in, they win because Bains said pick 5 was not on the table to start and it's a weak draft etc.

Defense mechanisms game strong after ASADA saga.

As a straight swap. Pick 5 was always going to be used in one way or another.

 

[VDS66]

I think some fans on here are doing pretty impersonations of injector fans to be honest.

A few cold showers are in order. Way too much ego getting in the way of rational discussion.

RE: Pick 5... you have to deal with the here and now. Club has to decide what the priority is and the likelihood of picking up a very good KPD in the near future. It's as simple as that.

You cannot look ahead and say what if 5 turns out to be the next Gablett. That's not how it works in the real world.

Once again, if the club believes that JC is worth 5 in the long run, they will do it. If not, it's off the table. It's not as if they are pursuing Jake for the fun of it... it's obviously for a good reason.

Pick 5 could be the next Pendles or could be the next Fiora. with Jake, you get a slightly used proven, ready made KPD.

No guarantees what will be there next year, let alone in 2 years from now.

 

[holllywood]

As a straight swap. Pick 5 was always going to be used in one way or another.

We know that but Essendon fans don't, have a peep on the JC thread on the D&T board.

Edit; this years pick 5 or next years first was always going to be used to get Carlisle.

 

[Si_Simmo]

With picks between 20-25 I'd hope we look at Mitch Hibberd, Keiran Collins and Riley Bonner who are tipped to fall in that range. I'd also be praying that Darcy Tucker slips that far back but it's unlikely.

 

[TheJackal]

It's a bit of an extension from my previous post but this is my ideal and in my opinion realistic trade/draft period. It relies on Carlisle sticking with us which he has given no indication he won't, and also Bains sticking to the mantra of if you really want a potential superstar in pick five you will bloody well have to pay for it.

Firstly, upgrade our offer to Essendon from...

5 & 61 for Carlisle, 23 & 25 to;

5 & 45 (or Ross so we keep points for Rice) for Carlisle, 23 & 25.

Then

23, 24, 25 and 2016 2nd for 7, Freeman & 47.

Pies trade

23, 24, 25 & 2016 2nd from them and Saints for Treloar. Works for Pies as they play the points game and keep next years first but include more points across two years. They do have pick 26 and next years first to play with to satisfy GWS if required though.

To walk away from the draft with Matho, Freeman, Rice, Carlisle and upgrade Sinclair for the net loss of next years second is surely a win isn't it?

Also, Scoop made an awesome point on SS to relate this years draft to the 2012 draft, which is the perfect counter arguement for those trying to equate our trade to the points system. To put it simply, pick 5 could be Stringer or Wines and 24/25 could be Wright/White. I won't go into detail with that arguement, but looking at that draft puts the points values (averaged out over 15 years) into perspective.

Edit: I just realised the irony of my trade scenario is that we are only giving up Seb Ross and our second rounder for Carlisle in the long run.

 

[Winmar07]

Anyone hear the caller Finey had tonight on SEN called Dragen.
He had a great 4 way deal to solve the Carlisle deal, seemed to satisfy all the needs of StK, Ess, Haw & Coll.
We get Carlisle and Freeman, give 5.
Haw get 5, give 15 & 18.
Ess get 15 & 18, give Carlisle and 23.
Coll get 23 and give Freeman.
There may need to be a few extra late swaps to smooth a few edges but the beauty of it is all the clubs give and get what they've previously said they'd be satisfied with.

That sounds like a fair deal for all parties. There's never going to be a perfect result, but this sounds fair enough for everyone.

 

[TheJackal]

I 100% agree with this. I don't think 23+24+25 gets the deal done for 7 and Freeman, but add in next years 2nd and it does. However, I doubt that the Pies would want to wait for us to get the Carlisle trade done before working out the Treloar deal.

If it meant Pies keep their first rounder next year, I think they'd be happy to wait right up until the final minute.

 

[bird_man]

I actually think the 20-30 range will provide some really good players, especially early on. Clayton Oliver, Mitchell Hibberd, I would imagine Gresham falls there ala Lewy Taylor, Bonner at a stretch.
In a lot of ways those players fit our midfield requirements more than what a Mathieson or Francis would, maybe not to the same high level but they will still be quality players. Especially Hibberd. Think I have finally found my boy!!

No way will Gresham or Bonner make it that far IMO

 

[crasha301]

Imagine being a top 5 draftee, you'd be praying ess dont get back to back picks. Poor buggers.

 

[Keg on legs]

Maybe my computer is broken, but I can't seem to see the articles from Niall etc saying "sorry saints, we were wrong. As it turns out, you actually know what you're doing. In fact, you were playing the dildo on a break and, because you hold the aces, your offer is fair"

If anyone finds the article, can you please send me a link.

Anyone.... Nobody?.... Didn't think so! Essendon loving A***holes!!

 

[bird_man]

I don't claim to be an expert so maybe some people on here can help us out? What would be better this year?

Picks 23 & 24 or pick 14?

 

[Periphery]

Maybe my computer is broken, but I can't seem to see the articles from Niall etc saying "sorry saints, we were wrong. As it turns out, you actually know what you're doing. In fact, you were playing the dildo on a break and, because you hold the aces, your offer is fair"

If anyone finds the article, can you please send me a link.

Anyone.... Nobody?.... Didn't think so! Essendon loving A***holes!!

There is this on the AFL website: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-17/trade-period-state-of-play

Essendon
Big ticket item: Jake Carlisle negotiations will take up most of their time with pick No.5 clearly in their sights. Hawthorn's entry into the race was dramatic and significant as it put the Bombers in the box seat. If the Saints want Carlisle now the No.5 pick will need to head to Essendon or become part of the solution. Otherwise Hawthorn will swoop with picks 15 and 18.

St Kilda
Big ticket item: The Saints' backflip on their insistence not to trade pick No.5 and land Jake Carlisle from Essendon. With Hawthorn now in the game it would seem the only way to get the deal done, unless the Saints can leverage the Pre-Season Draft. The Saints may receive something else on the way back from the Bombers.