List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Free agency and draft rumours

[TyHawk]

Looking more likely that The Jaeger Bomb wants out and GC have been informed! Now...I don't care about cap space...we roll up the sleeves and get their out and out A grader to the club next year! Hell, after last night , I'm even willing to see the party boy Bennel at the Hawks in 2016! Think about it, JOM ANd Harley at the Hawks!!

Breust plus first rounder next year for JOM
First and second rounder this year for Bennell.

Some speed, A grade youth and a better future beckons..let's make it happen!

 

[Mercy Seat]

I truly believe Cegs was ready to provide the equal of BB , Hale was fine and Lowden the unknown , keep in mind as well Ruffs ability to pinch hit in the ruck . Also flip it , if we trade 18 and 19 for a quality mid at the time would it have covered the diff between Cegs and BB ??

Why do we need to 'cover' a player we already have? He's a star.

 

[Dipper]

Why do we need to 'cover' a player we already have? He's a star.

Someone asked him whether we would have won last year with just Ceglar, Hale and Lowden as rucks. He intimated yes and also added ( quite astutely to my mind) that if the picks 18 and 19 used to sign BB had been used on snaring a high quality midfielder that what this player added to the team would more than cover any possible drop off in output from having Ceglar as primary ruck rather than BB.

 

[bhutt0]

I truly believe Cegs was ready to provide the equal of BB , Hale was fine and Lowden the unknown , keep in mind as well Ruffs ability to pinch hit in the ruck . Also flip it , if we trade 18 and 19 for a quality mid at the time would it have covered the diff between Cegs and BB ??

Thanks for the reply bud. I can only assume that it was the immediacy of the premiership window (and our crop of aging superstars - Lake, Hodgey, Mitchell, Gibbo) that we were not prepared to risk utilising draft picks which were either going to be hit or miss, or take a few years to develop. Ruff could also pinch hit in the ruck but the lack of development of our KPF may have forced out hand to keep playing him more in the front half. Any way, we win some and lose some

 

[GOHORCS]

Now Hayne has signed with the 49ers he can now be an international rookie. He was pissed last night when he saw how lacklustre we were. He is coming to us for a premiership not a rebuild.

It is a great plan but has one problem so far..........Hayne doesn't know about it.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Someone asked him whether we would have won last year with just Ceglar, Hale and Lowden as rucks. He intimated yes and also added ( quite astutely to my mind) that if the picks 18 and 19 used to sign BB had been used on snaring a high quality midfielder that what this player added to the team would more than cover any possible drop off in output from having Ceglar as primary ruck rather than BB.

Well there's a million possibilities for what we could have got with picks over the years. At the time it was the best decision available, we got an established ruckman, and we weren't expecting anything from Celgar.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Has everyone heard the one about Dangerfield heading to the Suns. It's a beauty.

Would laugh if it's true, but would also just shake my head at how corrupt this league is in trying to direct players to designated clubs that they want to see succeed.

 

[Blaze Storm]

Looking more likely that The Jaeger Bomb wants out and GC have been informed! Now...I don't care about cap space...we roll up the sleeves and get their out and out A grader to the club next year! Hell, after last night , I'm even willing to see the party boy Bennel at the Hawks in 2016! Think about it, JOM ANd Harley at the Hawks!!

Breust plus first rounder next year for JOM
First and second rounder this year for Bennell.

Some speed, A grade youth and a better future beckons..let's make it happen!

Nah, we wanna keep Breust. Give them Hill maybe? And/or Birchall?

 

[threesixpio]

Has everyone heard the one about Dangerfield heading to the Suns. It's a beauty.

Would laugh if it's true, but would also just shake my head at how corrupt this league is in trying to direct players to designated clubs that they want to see succeed.

AFL wanted Buddy at GWS but that didn't go to plan

 

[The Lemon]

Nah, we wanna keep Breust. Give them Hill maybe? And/or Birchall?

Sold.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

AFL wanted Buddy at GWS but that didn't go to plan

Yeah, and look at how pissed they got about that.

Unless this a really well thought out troll, they might have got their man this time.

 

[ItsOver9000]

How much of that buddy money do we have to spend?

 

[Brant]

We're still heavy punchers, like an all-time champion boxer past his (or her) prime: we can knock anyone out on our day, but we're slower, sorer & seem to lack genuine desire than in years gone by. As a list, we're weighed down by gold & glory & we need to re-generate so as to grow. And we need to GROW - not return to 2014 glory, but to smash 2014 as a ceiling & make it the floor of the past.

We need an injection of genuine young talent on the list next year. Even if we need to trade out 1 or 2 stars, we need genuine talent into the list.

Hale: gone (retired / delisted) $250k?
Lake: gone (retired / delisted) $350K?
Suckers: we need him to leave as a Free Agent - certainly can't keep/carry him any longer & we need the compensation pick. $300k?
Simpkin: hopefully gone to Carltank? $150k?

We are well & truly on the way out - but we don't have to be.

I don't think that cash is our issue. It's a lack of draft picks. If the above is close then we have about $1m to play with, of which maybe $500k (hopefully $300k) will be used in pay rises for re-signings like Stratts, Jedi, Langers et al. Hodge, Mitch & Burgers should've been front-ended last & this year with Buddy-money, I hope.

So.... IMO, we need at least 1 genuine midfielder & genuine KPD: not news, everyone has said so. BUT, can we also stay in the 2015/6 Drafts whilst receiving such?

IMO we need to trade a genuine A-Grade Player for 2x1st Rounders - to me, it's Brad Hill. There has been unnamed speculation for years that he wants to go home - freo are junk & seemingly have no idea as to what they need with regard to fixing their sieve of a list - they may well want another outside runner & be willing to pay for it. I'd be more than happy to send them Brad Hill a year before he walks there for free.

Hill + 2015 2nd Rounder to freo

freo 2015 1st Rounder to HFC & freo 2016 1st Rounder to HFC

HFC 2015 1st (highest) + 2015 2nd to GC for Bennell

HFC end up with 2x 1st Rounders in 2016 to bring in youth/talent in what is described as a bad-ass draft (maybe 'bad-ass' is my term)...

 

[dipper86]

We're still heavy punchers, like an all-time champion boxer past his (or her) prime: we can knock anyone out on our day, but we're slower, sorer & seem to lack genuine desire than in years gone by. As a list, we're weighed down by gold & glory & we need to re-generate so as to grow. And we need to GROW - not return to 2014 glory, but to smash 2014 as a ceiling & make it the floor of the past.

We need an injection of genuine young talent on the list next year. Even if we need to trade out 1 or 2 stars, we need genuine talent into the list.

Hale: gone (retired / delisted) $250k?
Lake: gone (retired / delisted) $350K?
Suckers: we need him to leave as a Free Agent - certainly can't keep/carry him any longer & we need the compensation pick. $300k?
Simpkin: hopefully gone to Carltank? $150k?

We are well & truly on the way out - but we don't have to be.

I don't think that cash is our issue. It's a lack of draft picks. If the above is close then we have about $1m to play with, of which maybe $500k (hopefully $300k) will be used in pay rises for re-signings like Stratts, Jedi, Langers et al. Hodge, Mitch & Burgers should've been front-ended last & this year with Buddy-money, I hope.

So.... IMO, we need at least 1 genuine midfielder & genuine KPD: not news, everyone has said so. BUT, can we also stay in the 2015/6 Drafts whilst receiving such?

IMO we need to trade a genuine A-Grade Player for 2x1st Rounders - to me, it's Brad Hill. There has been unnamed speculation for years that he wants to go home - freo are junk & seemingly have no idea as to what they need with regard to fixing their sieve of a list - they may well want another outside runner & be willing to pay for it. I'd be more than happy to send them Brad Hill a year before he walks there for free.

Hill + 2015 2nd Rounder to freo

freo 2015 1st Rounder to HFC & freo 2016 1st Rounder to HFC

HFC 2015 1st (highest) + 2015 2nd to GC for Bennell

HFC end up with 2x 1st Rounders in 2016 to bring in youth/talent in what is described as a bad-ass draft (maybe 'bad-ass' is my term)...

The only area you where you fall short is that Hill isn't a genuine A Grader. I cannot see Fremantle giving up its first rounder in 2015 and 2016 for Hill and a second round pick....it just won't happen.

Put simply our list doesn't hold much currency.
These are the players that will net a first round pick or more.

Roughead
Rioli
Breust
Gunston
Smith
Hill - mid to end of first round.
and maybe Birchall.

If we ever ever get another deal like GWS was prepared to pay us for Breust, 2 top 10 picks, I say jump and run with it.
I just can't see Breust transitioning into the midfield nor can i see him continuing to be a 45 a year goal kicking half forward once the midfield well dries up.....I think he can be replaced.

Throw our end of first round pick for Bennell, plant him on a flank midfield rotation then we have two top 10 picks to play with....we can then target almost anyone we want for the midfield.

 

[Brant]

The only area you where you fall short is that Hill isn't a genuine A Grader. I cannot see Fremantle giving up its first rounder in 2015 and 2016 for Hill and a second round pick....it just won't happen.

Put simply our list doesn't hold much currency.
These are the players that will net a first round pick or more.

Roughead
Rioli
Breust
Gunston
Smith
Hill - mid to end of first round.
and maybe Birchall.

If we ever ever get another deal like GWS was prepared to pay us for Breust, 2 top 10 picks, I say jump and run with it.
I just can't see Breust transitioning into the midfield nor can i see him continuing to be a 45 a year goal kicking half forward once the midfield well dries up.....I think he can be replaced.

Throw our end of first round pick for Bennell, plant him on a flank midfield rotation then we have two top 10 picks to play with....we can then target almost anyone we want for the midfield.

Are you suggesting that we'll get Bennell for an end of 1st round pick (our 1st)*?

If so, we need not trade Hill at all.

*I can't see that we could

 

[TyHawk]

Breust is NOT a inside midfielder!! Not sure why he goes in the cc's, does jack all!! We need A grade quality in there other than Lewis, Sammy and Hodge! Langers and Shiels are hard workers but no way are they anywhere near A grade.

 

[dipper86]

Are you suggesting that we'll get Bennell for an end of 1st round pick (our 1st)*?

If so, we need not trade Hill at all.

*I can't see that we could

He's getting thrown out of his club, multiple breeches, already has a strike to his name which known by all clubs....Do you think clubs are going to risk a top 10 pick on this which in all reality is what he's worth in terms of talent. GC bargaining power has gone out the window after his last indiscretion... once Bennell chooses his club of choice...they don't have anywhere to go.

 

[Brant]

He's getting thrown out of his club, multiple breeches, already has a strike to his name which known by all clubs....Do you think clubs are going to risk a top 10 pick on this which in all reality is what he's worth in terms of talent. GC bargaining power has gone out the window after his last indiscretion... once Bennell chooses his club of choice...they don't have anywhere to go.

Mate I totally agree with you as to what he's worth, but that has no real relevance as to what a club may offer. Cold Ghost will accept the highest offer being that they want rid of the guy regardless. The player himself may want the most cash or the best package. We lose either way.

Let's suggest that we win the Flag this year, that means that our 1st Pick is Pick 18. If any other Club throws anything better than 18 at Cold Ghost - we lose.

Let's say that Cold Ghost take whatever they can get for Bennell & accept anything from Pick 10 - 18 etc. Plenty of Clubs in that space (10-18) will have both the pick to trade & the cash to offer him more than we will have. We still lose.

A guy like Bennell comes with genuine risks, but there are at least 6 clubs with more cash & tradable assets, all with Get-Rich-Quick-Schemes in mind.

Getting him with the Pick that he's worth & for the salary that he's worth are IMO fanciful options, as there will always be some other idiot that offers more or pays more in the hope of getting ahead before their time.

 

[dipper86]

Mate I totally agree with you as to what he's worth, but that has no real relevance as to what a club may offer. Cold Ghost will accept the highest offer being that they want rid of the guy regardless. The player himself may want the most cash or the best package. We lose either way.

Let's suggest that we win the Flag this year, that means that our 1st Pick is Pick 18. If any other Club throws anything better than 18 at Cold Ghost - we lose.

Let's say that Cold Ghost take whatever they can get for Bennell & accept anything from Pick 10 - 18 etc. Plenty of Clubs in that space (10-18) will have both the pick to trade & the cash to offer him more than we will have. We still lose.

A guy like Bennell comes with genuine risks, but there are at least 6 clubs with more cash & tradable assets, all with Get-Rich-Quick-Schemes in mind.

Getting him with the Pick that he's worth & for the salary that he's worth are IMO fanciful options, as there will always be some other idiot that offers more or pays more in the hope of getting ahead before their time.

Clubs could all throw better picks than us...but the point is moot If Bennell chooses Hawthorn and only Hawthorn. They then have the choice of keeping him which they won't or trading him to Hawthorn. I rarely hear a player say...I'll go to any Melbourne club.
If Bennell is after money he can still reject Hawthorn, we will be priced out by other clubs.... no matter what pick we offer.

 

[Brant]

Clubs could all throw better picks than us...but the point is moot If Bennell chooses Hawthorn and only Hawthorn. They then have the choice of keeping him which they won't or trading him to Hawthorn. I rarely hear a player say...I'll go to any Melbourne club.
If Bennell is after money he can still reject Hawthorn no matter what pick we offer.

I don't agree that the point is moot, almost regardless whether he selects HFC. Bennell may well be in the position that he'll go to any club that can afford to carry him being that he may well be a hit/miss or 'loose cannon' type proposition.

Bennell can select HFC if he wants, but that doesn't mean that Cold Ghost will accept HFC's offer. If they don't accept our offer - he goes to someone else via trade or via PSD.

Bennell can select HFC if he wants, but that doesn't mean that we'll pay him the $400K-$600k+ that others are supposedly offering. If we offer anything, you can imagine that we'll be at the lower end of the spectrum, which requires a further dynamic:

1. Bennell's salary is back-ended, requiring that he doesn't fu**-up for 3+ years & is then 'paid out' in year 4. I've a strong feeiing that he won't like this too much; or,

2. HFC agree to the trade with Cold Ghost, but only if Cold Ghost pay X% of his salary, meaning that we pay 'overs' for him via trade, but pay unders of his actual salary. Similar to what we may have done for David Hale. If this is the case then our End of 1st Round Pick will be of little value as others will offer more & have more cash to offer him.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm Very confident that if we want Bennell we'll get a trade done. We always do.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

No no, completely agree that our leaders had no impact last night other than Mitch but they weren't high profile recruits and only have a year or two remaining at most. Was talking from a list management perspective.
We may fall away quickly and draft picks may be our best option for the next few years rather than the Carlisles / Dangerfield's. Recruit nobody over the age of 22 please!

You want to trade Frawley on the basis that he stunk it up as a forward, and McEvoy because he didn't out leap the biggest leaping ruckman in the comp.

It makes zero sense that you've targeted those two, in a team that was poor across the board.

 

[Hodginator]

The Dogs certainly have some quality young players I wouldn't mind us looking at.

 

[bhutt0]

I don't agree that the point is moot, almost regardless whether he selects HFC. Bennell may well be in the position that he'll go to any club that can afford to carry him being that he may well be a hit/miss or 'loose cannon' type proposition.

Bennell can select HFC if he wants, but that doesn't mean that Cold Ghost will accept HFC's offer. If they don't accept our offer - he goes to someone else via trade or via PSD.

Bennell can select HFC if he wants, but that doesn't mean that we'll pay him the $400K-$600k+ that others are supposedly offering. If we offer anything, you can imagine that we'll be at the lower end of the spectrum, which requires a further dynamic:

1. Bennell's salary is back-ended, requiring that he doesn't fu**-up for 3+ years & is then 'paid out' in year 4. I've a strong feeiing that he won't like this too much; or,

2. HFC agree to the trade with Cold Ghost, but only if Cold Ghost pay X% of his salary, meaning that we pay 'overs' for him via trade, but pay unders of his actual salary. Similar to what we may have done for David Hale. If this is the case then our End of 1st Round Pick will be of little value as others will offer more & have more cash to offer him.

I disagree mate. He can't walk to the PSD as he still has 2 years of his contract remaining. Gold Coast has to trade him to avoid either retaining him (and going against its publicly stated position which risks further eroding its culture) or cut him from its list (and still eat up their salary cap for the next 2 years with nothing in return).

It's a lay down misere on Gold Coast's part and the odds are stacked heavily in favour of Harley's preferred club (assuming they want him). As I see it, the only way they could extract value from a trade is to do a package deal and perhaps include someone like JOM. Then it would take a Croad and McPharlin like deal to possibly get over the line.

 

[Move P]

I think we need to consider cashing in on Birchall. He hasn't had a great year and defensively is becoming a liability.

Still has currency.