2015 Wooden Spoon Predictions

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Nope - just a side temporarily interrupted. The majority of players will return (as I said earlier - IF the worst happens) - only a few will retire etc. So it'll just be progress interuptus - so no justification for a #1 pick.

Maybe for a handful of games it will be progress interuptus but not it players cop 2 years.Also it's the way the system works you finish last for being crap you get the #1 pick.

It's one of the consequences the league will suffer by having players suspended.

 

[TedDougChris]

Maybe for a handful of games it will be progress interuptus but not it players cop 2 years.

Depends on the timing of the bans (if any) and the length of them - but I'll think that the other clubs will object to you benefitting from the events of a few years ago. Certain player types are hard to come by, so those clubs doing it tough at that point in time will not want to just hand over the rights to the best talent in the game...

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Depends on the timing of the bans (if any) and the length of them - but I'll think that the other clubs will object to you benefitting from the events of a few years ago. Certain player types are hard to come by, so those clubs doing it tough at that point in time will not want to just hand over the rights to the best talent in the game...

Either way it's going to be interesting how the league handles this if the worst is to happen which i hope it doesn't.

 

[Dez!]

Stupid saying the game has flown by him, won a premiership 4 years ago and was out of the system for 2 years?
He still knows a ****load more than the majority of the coaches in the AFL, he basically pioneered the front press and yet the games gone past him?
Stupid

It's actually not.

He has taken Carlton nowhere, they've stagnated massively and don't look any closer to a Premiership.

 

[CrowAboutIt]

But as we've seen with Melbourne, GWS, GCS and to a lesser extent the Saints and Dogs - kids improve at different rates at different times. Some kids who you think will fail end up great and vice versa.

You'd expect GWS and GCS to show significant improvement (due to recruitment and the gradual ageing of their lists), which is why Melbourne, Dogs and Saints are the leading candidates for this discussion - just due to the sheer volume of kids and their reliance upon them.

The upside from this strategy is obvious - it just takes time to realise...

I just meant that there i see more potential for overall improvement in the saints kids compared to carltons list, due to lack of quality youth. Not saying they will finish higher tho.

 

[aussierulesrules]

he basically pioneered the front press and yet the games gone past him?

If by "basically pioneered" you mean he "basically copied it in 2010 from St Kilda and Ross Lyon, who introduced it in 2009" then you are indeed correct sir!

 

[Topkent]

It's actually not.

He has taken Carlton nowhere, they've stagnated massively and don't look any closer to a Premiership.

Carlton were going no where when he got there and he has managed to start a rebuild while keeping them competitive

I don't understand the negativity around Carlton I think they will be a good side next year

Us or stkikda have to be favourites for the spoon but I reckon the spoon winner will win 6+ games

 

[TedDougChris]

Either way it's going to be interesting how the league handles this if the worst is to happen which i hope it doesn't.

Agreed. If, for example, you had to bring in 10 players from outside the AFL - I couldn't see the AFL letting you have first choice of the ones you wanted to keep afterwards. I'd imagine they'd have to enter the draft and be available to all clubs - so it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[TedDougChris]

I just meant that there i see more potential for overall improvement in the saints kids compared to carltons list, due to lack of quality youth. Not saying they will finish higher tho.

And while I agree with this, they also have more kids who could potentially all suffer from second year blues and produce 3/5th's of SFA this year. The Dogs and Dee's are in the same boat.

And while I think Carlton have more high end talent (numbers basis) - the Saints have more younger talent coming through. So if the Saints can develop these guys quicker than the older guys decline, they'll overtake the Blues in the coming years...

 

[Dez!]

Carlton were going no where when he got there and he has managed to start a rebuild while keeping them competitive

I don't understand the negativity around Carlton I think they will be a good side next year

Us or stkikda have to be favourites for the spoon but I reckon the spoon winner will win 6+ games

Ratten had Carlton looking good while he was in charge.

If you think what Malthouse has started a rebuild then you've quite clearly missed a beat, all he's done is put that team on a treadmill and allowed teams to run right by them.

The negativity stems from a lack of depth, a lack of youth coming through and a reliance on an aging Judd. That's not even factoring in the losses of Betts, Waite, Jacobs, etc in recent years that has dented them significantly.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Agreed. If, for example, you had to bring in 10 players from outside the AFL - I couldn't see the AFL letting you have first choice of the ones you wanted to keep afterwards. I'd imagine they'd have to enter the draft and be available to all clubs - so it will be interesting to see what happens.

More than happy for those players to go back in the draft prior EFC get all their players back from suspension.

 

[TedDougChris]

More than happy for those players to go back in the draft prior EFC get all their players back from suspension.

You will (most likely - due to retirements/delistings etc) have spots available, but the same principle would apply - you shouldn't be getting a benefit from the punishment applied. This (the additional players) would be a temporary rookie list - but without the chance to keep the players at the end of it.

 

[King Cold]

**** me, Carlton are 2nd favourites? People genuinely think teams like Melbourne, Dogs and Brisbane will finish ahead of us?

Why do you consider Brisbane a spoon contender?

If they didn't win the spoon in 2014 after all the turmoil they went through in the 2013 off season, then why on Earth are they going to win the spoon in 2015, after significantly strengthening their midfield with the additions of Beams and Christensen?

 

[2w2l]

Carlton would be my favourite. I don't think Judd has a full year in him, Thomas looked a shadow of himself, and I doubt their recruits will account for their departures; McLean, Robinson, Scotland, Garlett, and Waite (Carlton's 2014 leading goal-kicker) is a fair bit of experience to make up for. Their young talent just doesn't appear as strong as the teams around them.

I don't think the Bulldogs are too far behind. I'm not sure their list can account for the experience lost, but regardless of their 2015 season they'll be very dangerous in 2016.

Melbourne should improve. Toumpas (4 games) & Hogan probably would have had an impact last year if not for injuries, and hopefully our younger players like Kennedy-Harris, Salem, Viney & our 2014 draftees can flourish under Brendan McCartney. Frawley is a loss but we prepared our back-line for his departure all through the 2014 season, and Lumumba will adds experience (and talent) there.

 

[Topkent]

Ratten had Carlton looking good while he was in charge.

If you think what Malthouse has started a rebuild then you've quite clearly missed a beat, all he's done is put that team on a treadmill and allowed teams to run right by them.

The negativity stems from a lack of depth, a lack of youth coming through and a reliance on an aging Judd. That's not even factoring in the losses of Betts, Waite, Jacobs, etc in recent years that has dented them significantly.

Ratten is a different argument, that team had no right to be fighting for top 4 and he did an unbelievable to even put them in contention , problem was they had no forward or back line
Malthouse was brought in to win a flag but he clearly saw the obvious and realized it wasn't possible

Look at the lack of talent on there list, that's not his fault but with what most people consider a crappy list he played finals last in 13 ( luckily ) and still got 7 wins last year without Thomas Garlett kreuzer and Judd for the majority of the year

Mick Malthouse has made 7 grand finals in 30 years of coaching , I'll back his judgement of where the list is at
He is doing what Roos is doing at Melbourne , cutting the bullshit off the list and modelling it into his own

Saying the game has passed him is this stupid myth that the media invented

What other sporting code in the world ignores quality coaches with experience like eade( until this year ) Ratten , Voss, Harvey etc
And consistently appoints people with no experience

 

[Sprout]

Why do you consider Brisbane a spoon contender?

If they didn't win the spoon in 2014 after all the turmoil they went through in the 2013 off season, then why on Earth are they going to win the spoon in 2015, after significantly strengthening their midfield with the additions of Beams and Christensen?

I don't think they're a legitimate spoon contender, but the hype surrounding them on here in general has reached ridiculous levels. The match we played against them last season was as poorly skilled a game of football as I've ever witnessed. And I follow Melbourne. They were atrocious. In the end, we were slightly more atrocious.

If that team is making the jump to the top 8 next season, all on the back of recruiting Beams and Christensen, then colour me impressed.

 

[Adam H]

I don't think they're a legitimate spoon contender, but the hype surrounding them on here in general has reached ridiculous levels. The match we played against them last season was as poorly skilled a game of football as I've ever witnessed. And I follow Melbourne. They were atrocious. In the end, we were slightly more atrocious.

If that team is making the jump to the top 8 next season, all on the back of recruiting Beams and Christensen, then colour me impressed.

Plus Rich and Luenberger return.

 

[Sprout]

Plus Rich and Luenberger return.

Even so, we're talking about a bottom four side who were looking spoon certainties at one stage. It would be a seismic jump to be playing finals this year, as so many are predicting. I'm not buying into it just yet. I don't see a forwardline that will get them into the 8.

 

[TBOW]

Sam Fisher, are you kidding, or what? He has been comfortably in our best half dozen for the last 7 or so years (hence winning two of the 4 B&F's in the 4 years we played finals under Lyon, including being a shining light in early 2011 when our team was generally struggling big-time with the grand final losses hangovers) and with the likes of Hayes, Dal Santo and Goddard now gone, I believe still would be, as long as he's fit and in form.

His last couple of years have been decimated by injury, but that was largely due to his longstanding big toe injury, which has now apparently been relatively successfully treated. Him favouring his other leg to compensate for that injury apparently led to him getting the hamstring injury that kept on lingering last year, but once they worked out that he needed to strengthen that leg up again (so that he wasn't favouring one over the other), his hammy problem went away and he finished the season off really well (played the last 7 games and had 28 possies in just 66% game time in the last round). He has also just done a PB in the time trial the other day and looked in ripping nick at the open training session on Wednesday. He is someone who just makes us instantly better, as he is still easily our "backline general" and, like I said, one of our best half dozen or so and if we can afford to have him not playing key defence, then he becomes a genuine "weapon" again, as he showed in the last game of 2014- when he was easily on track for a 35 possie game had he played more than 2 thirds of it.

As for Farren Ray, he may have never reached the heights that you guys would have been hoping he would when you took him with a top 5 pick, but he has been in our best 22 for the best part of the last 7 years now and is just coming off two of his best and most consistent seasons, so if I'm going to include someone like Jarryd Grant, when talking about your 7 who have finals experience, I'm sure as shit going to include someone like Farren, who had 20 or more possies in 15 of his 21 games last year and came 11th in our B&F! He might not be flashy, but he does his job week after week and brings almost 200 games and multiple finals experience to the table. That said, he is one who will likely be in the gun when we want to get more games into the likes of Acres, McKenzie, Murdoch and Saunders, so he'll need to keep up his good form.

Think you're taking me out of context a bit there. I'm not questioning the ability of either player, just saying that I'm not sure whether they are the type of guys that will carry a young team across the line in the same way that a Hayes or Riewoldt have.

I'm sure Fisher will have a great impact organising the young backline, but the guys that win games for young struggling teams are the ones that seem to do it all themselves. Much like Ryan Griffen of 2013.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Bulldogs or carlton....

but if i had to put money on it....GWS OR Saints

 

[Asgardian]

My take at what gillo would say if the Blues come last, just like he went on the club boards asking everyone "But wouldn't you prefer Boekhorst over *better draftee* here?"

He gave the Port board a miss with that, must have been coz of our superior drafting ...

The spoon has to be between the Saints, Blues, Dogs & Giants. Three of them have rosy futures, but the 4th is in for a few years of pain

 

[jackess]

Bulldogs
St Kilda
Melboure

In order of likelihood

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Plus Rich and Luenberger return.

And Redden and Staker and 2015 coleman medalist Luke McGuane

 

[SickQwon]

Western Bulldogs for me, it's hard to see them improve after trading Griffen, Cooney, Higgins, Jones & Tutt. Plus sacking the coach doesn't look too good either.

However, they looked to have their priorities in order and are building a strong team for the future. Tom Boyd could turn out to be a real positive for the club.

 

[Super Hans]

Western Bulldogs for me, it's hard to see them improve after trading Griffin, Cooney, Higgins, Jones & Tutt. Plus sacking the coach doesn't look too good either.

However, they looked to have their priorities in order and are building a strong team for the future. Tom Boyd could turn out to be a real positive for the club.

I do think we will be near the bottom, but you can't really include Jones and Tutt as big outs. Griffen is a huge out, he is the only one I see having a massive effect.

Higgins was ok last year, but we've had him injured for most of his career and had to cover him anyway.

Cooney played more bad games than good last year. The main effect him leaving will have is taggers. Instead of tagging Cooney, teams will target Macrae, which he will probably struggle with. Hope Coons kills it at Essendon, a lot of dogs supporters still love him.

Jones and Tutt though... both were basically VFL players. They shouldn't have any effect at all.