List Mgmt. 2016 GFC National Draft & DFA Thread-please see Mod Announcement Page 50 post #1228

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Or it indicates we want to see who is still available and create the option. When you do a mock, it is unbelievable the quality of the players still available in the 50/60/70s. If we miss out on Simpson, no big deal as there will still be good players. The loss is minimal on the potential that a higher rated player is available. In saying that, I'll be surprised if Simpson isn't taken in the national draft.

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Yes and no-I think it is a very good draft but not so for our needs. When you look at most mocks having guys like Clarke and Fisher and Graham and Scharenberg and Atley and Poholke being taken outside the top 30 clearly it's a deep draft but the issue for us is most of those guys are inside mids and the best available player with our later picks is likely to be an inside mid which we don't really need. So the recruiting team will need to talk this week and decide whether we take slightly inferior players at those later picks to cover needs or whether we take a couple of inside mids and accept it means we will be trading another inside mid out in 1-2 years like with Caddy. The issue is the draft doesn't have hugely good depth in key forwards which we really need (the top 3 or 4 kpfs are good but there is not much beyond that) or in really skilled wingers/outside mids which are our biggest needs, the better depth is in inside mids and key backs neither of which we really need.

On Sam Simpson I like him as a player but he is small and doesn't have a lot of exposed form, I wouldn't realistically rate him in the top 5 small forwards in this draft and most small forwards go as rookies anyway. I think it's pretty likely he will be passed over especially if there is only around 70 live picks on the night. That said I do think our decision to only nominate him as a rookie is curious, it makes me think we have a player or two specifically in mind for our 3 4th rounders as we did with Menegola last year, and we want maximum flexibility to take that player.
 
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24 witherden
38 battle/kerr/marshall
42 mutch
63 jarman
71 rioli/debois
73 stewart

Optimistic but bring it on.

I do rate Witherden. Battle and Marshall will be gone before 38 (might be gone before 24) only Kerr might be there. I wouldn't take more than one small forward earlier than rookie draft so if we take jarman we don't need another in the ND.
 

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I would love Wells to reach with pick 42 and pick Jarman. Great skills and will be the bargain of the draft.

Jarman has the same issue Sam Simpson does-is too slight and it's uncertain how well his frame would handle putting on the bulk required to have the body strength for afl level. That said he is a very good player so worth a punt at a late pick-42 is probably too early for me.
 
Another way I look at our draft is to look at our depth, yes you don't draft for depth you draft for guys to become best 22 but it's a pointer as to where you are strong and weak. So from say our last game if you took Enright Bartel Caddy and say Cowan out and put Tuohy Thurlow Menzel and Cockatoo in (personally I would take a KPD out as well but thats a debate for the best 22 thread it leaves the 22-33 looking like this:

Small/medium defenders
Ruggles
Cowan

General midfielders
Horlin Smith
Lang

Small forwards
Gregson

Outside midfielders
Murdoch
Parsons (rookie)

Key defenders
Gardner

Key forwards
Black

Others
Cunico
Hayball
Buzza

I have listed the others as other as I doubt they are physically ready to play afl next year. Now of the 22-30 there is some talent but a lot of it is unproven so while our best 22 is still good enough to match the top sides our depth is thinned out, so it's likely we look to bring in another couple of Menegolas and Ruggles this draft to give us some more immediate depth.

The small/med defender depth is there especially when you consider we will probably bring in Stewart to add to that group. Gardner is a good KPD and one of the 4 KPDs will probably drop out of the 22 to become depth.

Cockatoo and Lang are pretty good midfield prospects to me (they will start forward but midfield is where they will end up eventually) and Horlin Smith is a square peg in a round hole positionally but he has some ability. So mid depth is reasonable. With the interchange cap you can rarely play more than 2 specialist small forwards unless they go midfield as well so you don't need as much depth there as you think you do.

The areas that stick out to me are key forward depth other than Black who is injury prone and has major question marks there is basically nothing. Now yes we could draft another KPD (of which there is good depth in this draft) and turn Hendo into a CHF but I think that is a waste of a A grade KPD in Hendo. Our ruck depth is also bad unless Blitz is considered a frontline ruckman, but the ruck stocks in this draft are ordinary so there is little point us taking a ruck unless its a mature age ruck.

Outside mids too, we really only have Motlop and Duncan (when he plays there as he gets thrown around a bit) as outside mids/wingers so there is a lot pinned on if Murdoch can return to form otherwise we have zero depth there so few options if we want to make the side quicker and more dynamic. And we don't know yet whether Motlop will go under free agency next year.

Obviously as we have later picks we are dependent on what falls through so we have to go best available a bit, but a key position forward and a couple of speedy outside mids/wingers would be my key priorities this draft, and a couple of mature age players.
 
Out of shifters list sam mclarty parfitt and waterman (wce F/S pick) would be the 3 he has in the 40 that most people dont seem to have in theirs.

I've seen a bit of Parfitt. I think he's one of those blokes that would be a star in state leagues but not up to AFL. Despite what I've seen on some draft boards, he is not quick. Only average pace, and he's probably just good in all areas of the game.
 
I think the same re: Sam Fowler (169cm).

If we were going to pick a really small player i would like it to be zac fisher. Such a good player and has played well at senior level already.
 

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If we were going to pick a really small player i would like it to be zac fisher. Such a good player and has played well at senior level already.

There are a lot of quality 170cm types this year. Fisher is the best but I wouldn't be upset if we picked any of Fowler, LeBois, Piper, Jarman, Pitman, etc.
 
Haven't seen him play live but he is certainly a good size and a Geelong supporter too going by that article. Would be good to have more data on how he tested though.

It looks like the kid has had to overcome a bit too. But a nice size at 193cm and at his young age may grow a few more centimeters. But very little information on him to get any sort of guage on him.

"It's not recommended that people with cochlear implants play contact sport, but Sam was desperate to play so I finally said he could, but only if he wears a helmet," Mrs McLarty said.


"His curse has been a dodgy shoulder. McLarty tore his labrum in April and it plagued him for much of the year.

Quote
"It's popped out about five times," he said.

"I got cut from the Metro side because of injury, and the form wasn't quite there in the games.

"It's like a roller coaster. But it's the ups and downs that make a roller coaster so much fun."

McLarty is hopeful the shoulder surgery he had in September will spell the end of the issue."


Sam is a Geelong supporter. His hero growing up has been Jimmy Bartel.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-peers-if-he-was-drafted-20161107-gsk387.html




In the video below ou have to wait for the last highlight in the package to see McLarty

 
There are a lot of quality 170cm types this year. Fisher is the best but I wouldn't be upset if we picked any of Fowler, LeBois, Piper, Jarman, Pitman, etc.

I think fisher is the one who could do a caleb daniel he is playing as well as daniel was in his draft year. But all those guys you mentioned are good players.
 
Another way I look at our draft is to look at our depth, yes you don't draft for depth you draft for guys to become best 22 but it's a pointer as to where you are strong and weak. So from say our last game if you took Enright Bartel Caddy and say Cowan out and put Tuohy Thurlow Menzel and Cockatoo in (personally I would take a KPD out as well but thats a debate for the best 22 thread it leaves the 22-33 looking like this:

Small/medium defenders
Ruggles
Cowan

General midfielders
Horlin Smith
Lang

Small forwards
Gregson

Outside midfielders
Murdoch
Parsons (rookie)

Key defenders
Gardner

Key forwards
Black

Others
Cunico
Hayball
Buzza

I have listed the others as other as I doubt they are physically ready to play afl next year. Now of the 22-30 there is some talent but a lot of it is unproven so while our best 22 is still good enough to match the top sides our depth is thinned out, so it's likely we look to bring in another couple of Menegolas and Ruggles this draft to give us some more immediate depth.

The small/med defender depth is there especially when you consider we will probably bring in Stewart to add to that group. Gardner is a good KPD and one of the 4 KPDs will probably drop out of the 22 to become depth.

Cockatoo and Lang are pretty good midfield prospects to me (they will start forward but midfield is where they will end up eventually) and Horlin Smith is a square peg in a round hole positionally but he has some ability. So mid depth is reasonable. With the interchange cap you can rarely play more than 2 specialist small forwards unless they go midfield as well so you don't need as much depth there as you think you do.

The areas that stick out to me are key forward depth other than Black who is injury prone and has major question marks there is basically nothing. Now yes we could draft another KPD (of which there is good depth in this draft) and turn Hendo into a CHF but I think that is a waste of a A grade KPD in Hendo. Our ruck depth is also bad unless Blitz is considered a frontline ruckman, but the ruck stocks in this draft are ordinary so there is little point us taking a ruck unless its a mature age ruck.

Outside mids too, we really only have Motlop and Duncan (when he plays there as he gets thrown around a bit) as outside mids/wingers so there is a lot pinned on if Murdoch can return to form otherwise we have zero depth there so few options if we want to make the side quicker and more dynamic. And we don't know yet whether Motlop will go under free agency next year.

Obviously as we have later picks we are dependent on what falls through so we have to go best available a bit, but a key position forward and a couple of speedy outside mids/wingers would be my key priorities this draft, and a couple of mature age players.

I think your exercise effectively demonstrates that we really lack quality depth now right through our list in pretty much all categories. For that reason I'd be certainly starting the drafting this year on a best available basis and then perhaps drafting more for needs with our last 2-3 picks to get a range of different types of player.

For that reason I'm still unsure what my first preference is for 24. It's currently oscillating between Ridley and B.Cox but I wouldn't be overly troubled if we took a few others. Contradicting what I said earlier, I do however think we should target a quality small defender - Morrison stands out as a good option here and could well be available a bit later in the draft too.

Outside mids shouldn't be too much of an issue in this draft - the ones we've mentioned in previous posts look to have significant potential.

All up, if Wells is smart on Friday (and has a bit of luck go his way), we'll get a nice crop of young talent. I do like the fact that we will take at least 5 picks in this draft. It does look like one we'll look back on in 10 years time and comment on the sheer number of 100+ game players to come out of it.

If we are able to secure Simpson via the RD then we've done pretty well here too. On the limited vision available he looks to be a very smart and neat player in an area we are lacking depth.
 
Outside midfielders
Parsons (rookie)

Parsons is a lovely kick of the ball and I think that he could play back and forward flank too.
In my opinion, he looked the most likely to succeed of the kids that are yet to debut in the VFL.
Cunico played some good footy when he got over his injury and I expect him to improve in 2018.
But it also must be remembered that Parsons has a delayed start to the season with hip surgery.
If you Pure_Ownage are a local Geelongite, then can I suggest that you keep an eye on him. I think that he is one of the few players on the list (that have yet to debut) that are a good possibility to make it at AFL level.
 
I think your exercise effectively demonstrates that we really lack quality depth now right through our list in pretty much all categories. For that reason I'd be certainly starting the drafting this year on a best available basis and then perhaps drafting more for needs with our last 2-3 picks to get a range of different types of player.

For that reason I'm still unsure what my first preference is for 24. It's currently oscillating between Ridley and B.Cox but I wouldn't be overly troubled if we took a few others. Contradicting what I said earlier, I do however think we should target a quality small defender - Morrison stands out as a good option here and could well be available a bit later in the draft too.

Outside mids shouldn't be too much of an issue in this draft - the ones we've mentioned in previous posts look to have significant potential.

All up, if Wells is smart on Friday (and has a bit of luck go his way), we'll get a nice crop of young talent. I do like the fact that we will take at least 5 picks in this draft. It does look like one we'll look back on in 10 years time and comment on the sheer number of 100+ game players to come out of it.

If we are able to secure Simpson via the RD then we've done pretty well here too. On the limited vision available he looks to be a very smart and neat player in an area we are lacking depth.

I wouldn't necessarily say we lack quality depth for example I think Lang and Bews are very good players as is Gregson I think it's more we lack proven mature depth as a lot of what would have been our mature depth players have gone for various reasons. It also bears keeping in mind every club's depth looks worse before the draft period because you have only got 30-34 guys on your list not the 44 odd you will end up with. For example if you did an exercise like that for GWS while their best 22 would look more outstanding than anyone's even their mature depth would look thin right now. That said we need more depth in all areas.

I do agree on the outside midfielders we should get one or two good ones here which will build that area. I am not sure I agree with small defender my point was we have enough numerical options there, Tuohy can play that position, I think both Bews and Ruggles have shown enough this year to suggest they will make it if given opportunities, we will probably draft Stewart who can play tall and small and Cowan can play small defender or back flank to a decent standard (not that I thought I would ever say that). And Guthrie can obviously play back quite well if we need it. I suppose you can argue it wouldn't hurt to have an elite small back but depth wise I think there's enough there. Do think Morrison is a good under the radar player though.

For me CHF is the worry-there is no guarantee there will be good tall forward options left on the board by the time we pick at 24 and it's the obvious hole. I saw Black's welcome interview this week where he said he feels he plays best as a third tall which for me begged the question of 'what of CHF' which we really need filled. It's worth remembering John Peake who recruited Stanley to St Kilda and now works for Wells says Stanley is a better ruckman than a forward and St Kilda stuffed him up by not playing him in the ruck. And it's likely the club brought him down the highway with a sales pitch of more ruck time as he had opportunities as a key forward (they didn't have Membrey or McCartin then but they had 2 good rucks in Hickey and Longer so he was always going to be a forward if he stayed there) and it's probably likely that when he broke his foot last year the club got spooked (understandably given our ruck injury woes the last few years) and decided they needed the insurance of another mature ruck (Smith). So the club and Stanley both probably still view him as a ruckman now, he may be manufactured into CHF out of necessity but there is no guarantee that will work. It worries me that the club may decide to draft another key defender (Cox, Maibum, Garthwaite and even Watson who Brisbane might not match a bid on or Keitel if you want to go immediate, are all good key defenders who will available in later rounds) and move Henderson to CHF because they can't solve it any other way, which is a waste of Henderson.

To be honest I can understand why Kersten went between being back home with family and friends, knowing Hamling was going with him and Freo's sales pitch of more money and more opportunities (I think they have sold him on false opportunities and he wont get more than he would have got here but I can see how the sales pitch would have been attractive). But I don't understand Vardy's choice and the discussion we are having now shows as inconsistent as he was how little other options we have. It makes me angry because the club pushed Pods out the door largely because they saw Vardy as our next CHF but for years he has been constantly injury prone, hasn't been the most elite in his rehab work from injuries, has been given AFL opportunities but hasn't (in my opinion) worked hard enough to make himself into the sort of player a player with his talent should be, yet the club has continually placed faith and contracts in him when less talented but more hardworking guys like Walker and Brown have gone. He then gets frustrated about not playing more games in the AFL this year despite the fact that a guy who clearly had no future at the club (Clark) was outperforming him in the vfl. And despite all of that he probably had a better than even money chance of being our starting CHF next year (which he would have known as everyone knew we weren't going to recontract Clark) and he leaves not for homesickness or family or more opportunity like Kersten but to sit behind Naitanui and Lycett and Kennedy and Darling to get even less opportunity than he would have here. If that isn't sticking a giant middle finger up at the club I don't know what is. So for deserting us when we actually needed him and offered him yet another contract Vardy ranks almost up there with Christensen for me.

But anyway back to the draft side of it it will be interesting to see if one of the higher ranked tall forwards falls through to us and if they don't whether we try and pick a smokey or bid on an academy forward or whether we try and restructure with our existing talls. It will be a fascinating part of next friday for me. That and which mature age players we take next friday and monday will be big things to look out for. I do agree that the draft looks like it has quite good depth so I am fairly hopeful we can draft a few 100 gamers which will be crucial for our medium term future.
 
Parsons is a lovely kick of the ball and I think that he could play back and forward flank too.
In my opinion, he looked the most likely to succeed of the kids that are yet to debut in the VFL.
Cunico played some good footy when he got over his injury and I expect him to improve in 2018.
But it also must be remembered that Parsons has a delayed start to the season with hip surgery.
If you Pure_Ownage are a local Geelongite, then can I suggest that you keep an eye on him. I think that he is one of the few players on the list (that have yet to debut) that are a good possibility to make it at AFL level.

I agree Parsons could play several different positions I just suggested wing as it's our biggest need and probably where I think opportunities in the AFL side are most likely to open up for him.

I think Cunico has some ability but he coming from a fair way back given his injuries which is why I don't expect him to play much AFL footy next year.
 
It looks like the kid has had to overcome a bit too. But a nice size at 193cm and at his young age may grow a few more centimeters. But very little information on him to get any sort of guage on him.




"His curse has been a dodgy shoulder. McLarty tore his labrum in April and it plagued him for much of the year.

Quote
"It's popped out about five times," he said.

"I got cut from the Metro side because of injury, and the form wasn't quite there in the games.

"It's like a roller coaster. But it's the ups and downs that make a roller coaster so much fun."

McLarty is hopeful the shoulder surgery he had in September will spell the end of the issue."



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-peers-if-he-was-drafted-20161107-gsk387.html




In the video below ou have to wait for the last highlight in the package to see McLarty



On that small sample size seems to have a good leap and hands and reads the ball in flight well but the kicking action is a bit mechanical. Seems like a hardworking kid with a good attitude though.
 
I wouldn't necessarily say we lack quality depth for example I think Lang and Bews are very good players as is Gregson I think it's more we lack proven mature depth as a lot of what would have been our mature depth players have gone for various reasons. It also bears keeping in mind every club's depth looks worse before the draft period because you have only got 30-34 guys on your list not the 44 odd you will end up with. For example if you did an exercise like that for GWS while their best 22 would look more outstanding than anyone's even their mature depth would look thin right now. That said we need more depth in all areas.

I do agree on the outside midfielders we should get one or two good ones here which will build that area. I am not sure I agree with small defender my point was we have enough numerical options there, Tuohy can play that position, I think both Bews and Ruggles have shown enough this year to suggest they will make it if given opportunities, we will probably draft Stewart who can play tall and small and Cowan can play small defender or back flank to a decent standard (not that I thought I would ever say that). And Guthrie can obviously play back quite well if we need it. I suppose you can argue it wouldn't hurt to have an elite small back but depth wise I think there's enough there. Do think Morrison is a good under the radar player though.

For me CHF is the worry-there is no guarantee there will be good tall forward options left on the board by the time we pick at 24 and it's the obvious hole. I saw Black's welcome interview this week where he said he feels he plays best as a third tall which for me begged the question of 'what of CHF' which we really need filled. It's worth remembering John Peake who recruited Stanley to St Kilda and now works for Wells says Stanley is a better ruckman than a forward and St Kilda stuffed him up by not playing him in the ruck. And it's likely the club brought him down the highway with a sales pitch of more ruck time as he had opportunities as a key forward (they didn't have Membrey or McCartin then but they had 2 good rucks in Hickey and Longer so he was always going to be a forward if he stayed there) and it's probably likely that when he broke his foot last year the club got spooked (understandably given our ruck injury woes the last few years) and decided they needed the insurance of another mature ruck (Smith). So the club and Stanley both probably still view him as a ruckman now, he may be manufactured into CHF out of necessity but there is no guarantee that will work. It worries me that the club may decide to draft another key defender (Cox, Maibum, Garthwaite and even Watson who Brisbane might not match a bid on or Keitel if you want to go immediate, are all good key defenders who will available in later rounds) and move Henderson to CHF because they can't solve it any other way, which is a waste of Henderson.

To be honest I can understand why Kersten went between being back home with family and friends, knowing Hamling was going with him and Freo's sales pitch of more money and more opportunities (I think they have sold him on false opportunities and he wont get more than he would have got here but I can see how the sales pitch would have been attractive). But I don't understand Vardy's choice and the discussion we are having now shows as inconsistent as he was how little other options we have. It makes me angry because the club pushed Pods out the door largely because they saw Vardy as our next CHF but for years he has been constantly injury prone, hasn't been the most elite in his rehab work from injuries, has been given AFL opportunities but hasn't (in my opinion) worked hard enough to make himself into the sort of player a player with his talent should be, yet the club has continually placed faith and contracts in him when less talented but more hardworking guys like Walker and Brown have gone. He then gets frustrated about not playing more games in the AFL this year despite the fact that a guy who clearly had no future at the club (Clark) was outperforming him in the vfl. And despite all of that he probably had a better than even money chance of being our starting CHF next year (which he would have known as everyone knew we weren't going to recontract Clark) and he leaves not for homesickness or family or more opportunity like Kersten but to sit behind Naitanui and Lycett and Kennedy and Darling to get even less opportunity than he would have here. If that isn't sticking a giant middle finger up at the club I don't know what is. So for deserting us when we actually needed him and offered him yet another contract Vardy ranks almost up there with Christensen for me.

But anyway back to the draft side of it it will be interesting to see if one of the higher ranked tall forwards falls through to us and if they don't whether we try and pick a smokey or bid on an academy forward or whether we try and restructure with our existing talls. It will be a fascinating part of next friday for me. That and which mature age players we take next friday and monday will be big things to look out for. I do agree that the draft looks like it has quite good depth so I am fairly hopeful we can draft a few 100 gamers which will be crucial for our medium term future.

Wow! Great response! Not sure where to begin.

With regard to our back six, it's an area that, in my opinion., we still have a little more work to do. Effectively Tuohy replaces Enright and we have Thurlow hopefully coming back but I still think we are short on that quality small defender that we've been screaming out for recently. Hence my desire to see Morrison drafted. That, and the fact I reckon he could be what we've been looking for in Ruggles and Bews but ultimately fallen short (so far). I can't recall whether it was GHS33 or Budda 230 that also mentioned him in a post.

Of course there is also your fav, Stewart! I know we'll have to agree to disagree here, but I just see him as a Ruggles upgrade, but not much more. I'm looking for other options long term personally.

No doubt key forwards are a massive issue. Problem being that I just don't really rate any of them that highly to justify using decent pick. Ironically, B.Cox, who I've pushed as a potential pick 24 as a KPD, could also be potentially long term the best key forward of this year's crop. His work late in the year down forward was pretty good.

I'd be inclined though to look nxt year at filling that hole. If Kerr was to slip to one of our second or even third picks then probably strike but otherwise look to other types.

Our management of Kersten probably could have been better I agree. But he didn't smash the door down at any time to demand selection. I've heard from a pretty good source that he's considered to be a bit mentally soft. Was a bit too quick to pull out of games with niggles when others would have played. I'm not sure we've lost a hell of a lot other than time we could have better invested in another player.

Yes, next Fri will be interesting. As mentioned before, I'd love another pick in the teens or twenties but I seem to feel like that every year! But this year in particular you could get a nice group with a couple of extra earlier picks as both North and Port have been able to achieve.
 
I agree Parsons could play several different positions I just suggested wing as it's our biggest need and probably where I think opportunities in the AFL side are most likely to open up for him.

I think Cunico has some ability but he coming from a fair way back given his injuries which is why I don't expect him to play much AFL footy next year.

And I do not disagree with any of the above.
 
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