Game Day 2016 NAB Challenge : Hawks v Blues

[Brishawk]

You think so? I think Billy has an appetite for it. Just not sure he has the body for it. Remember his injury in 14? I thought there was a bit of redline fever in that ... which I kinda liked. But then he was on the sidelines for weeks which didn't help anyone

I don't want to be harsh on him but there were a couple of instances in the game where saw contact coming and handballed to someone with a man on him who was crunched. Sometimes you just got to hold onto it a bit longer so you know the tackler is committed to hitting you before you give it off. Hodge is the master of it. Also his efforts in marking contests...it's too strong a word to call them efforts. He just doesn't put his body on the line. Doesn't really fight for position. It was a nab game and he still has time to develop but though he may throw himself into tackles, the rest of his game shows a lack of hunger for body contact. I'm sure others will disagree but that is how see him right now.

 

[Gralin]

I don't want to be harsh on him but there were a couple of instances in the game where saw contact coming and handballed to someone with a man on him who was crunched. Sometimes you just got to hold onto it a bit longer so you know the tackler is committed to hitting you before you give it off. Hodge is the master of it. Also his efforts in marking contests...it's too strong a word to call them efforts. He just doesn't put his body on the line. Doesn't really fight for position. It was a nab game and he still has time to develop but though he may throw himself into tackles, the rest of his game shows a lack of hunger for body contact. I'm sure others will disagree but that is how see him right now.

We had a lot of players in the first half of last year looking to avoid contact. I wonder how much is the players believing we will be there in September and not wanting to risk missing out.

I'm happy with preseason being bruise free though

 

[Brishawk]

We had a lot of players in the first half of last year looking to avoid contact. I wonder how much is the players believing we will be there in September and not wanting to risk missing out.

I'm happy with preseason being bruise free though

Yeah it's preseason so I am not worried. I would prefer it to be bruise free so long as they are ready for round one!

 

[Brant]

Does TO'B demand the ball enough? What about at BH? I see him running around, but a lot of the time he runs to where the ball is just not going to be. Good, big forwards run to dangerous spots & 'demand' the ball, if you like - TO'B seems to sometimes be where the ball is, sometimes not.

This could have many causes, especially at Hawthorn. Asymmetric forward line, playing a Gunston-like role, playing a support role to one of 3-4 forwards who have seniority or are part of the structure etc.

Is there a problem with his demanding the ball & getting dangerous?

 

[HairyO]

Not sure why the lack of love for Hill on this board. Kid's a gun wingman. Athleticism in spades and great disposal to boot. Extremely happy to have him and Billy on our list, let alone Smith who just keeps impressing me more and more every time he plays.

Thought Whitey was very good after a substantial amount of time out of the big league. Seems to be a natural leader for the young guys as well.

As for the n00bs... from most impressive to least, having watched the game 3 times now; Howe, Brand, Heatherly, O'Rourke, Litherland, Willsmore, Miles, Sicily, O'Brien.

While none of them starred and most of the heavy lifting was unfortunately left to our regular senior guys, IMO none of them did any damage to their chances of getting game time this season either, and all showed glimpses of what they're about and what they could become.

I dont think too many would question Hill's talent or fitness. The problem with Hill is, from time to time he simply doesnt try hard enough. You only need to look at Smith to see the difference. I think Hill could be at the Smith level if he was more consistent.

 

[Boo71]

Does TO'B demand the ball enough? What about at BH? I see him running around, but a lot of the time he runs to where the ball is just not going to be. Good, big forwards run to dangerous spots & 'demand' the ball, if you like - TO'B seems to sometimes be where the ball is, sometimes not.

This could have many causes, especially at Hawthorn. Asymmetric forward line, playing a Gunston-like role, playing a support role to one of 3-4 forwards who have seniority or are part of the structure etc.

Is there a problem with his demanding the ball & getting dangerous?

Have a look at that highlights package on here at the 2.47 mark...it clearly shows a couple of things in that one passage of play up forward.

1st - Shoe alone demanding the ball as he had run into the space the others had opened up for him unmanned, yet the kick forward is an under pressure mongrel punt nowhere near him. Not shoes fault, he was clear if the kicker could have found him and opening up space behind himself at the same time.

2nd - it shows TOB where you'd expect him to to be with Shoe running away from that area BUT, he absolutely skirts the edge of the ball drop and misses it completely??? was he called out of it by Mitch??

this "skirting" the edge of the ball drop is actually very very common play in our forward line from Gunston and Roughie - is it instructed ?

Maybe this is where people think he is "soft" yet I can't help thinking some of this is instructed since our two best tall forwards also do it regularly at afl level, ok not as obvious as what TOB does it in that footage, so maybe Mitch did call him out, either way it didn't look great when viewing TOB in isolation without considering the play as a whole and whether or not its a common theme from all our tall forwards, and to me it is, just not as obvious.

 

[HeHateMe]

Smiths inside ability has him well and truly covered though.
Smith is more of a straight line runner while hill relies on lateral movement, great for him to turn a play inside out but loses a lot of pace and balance in the process, this is why he is so easy to push off his feet. smith just runs straight at you and past you before you can react or if you manage to get a hand on him he has the balance to get an effective hand ball away.

here is hoping smith gets an extended run as the defensive side mid who reads the opposition ruck men and is the overlap runner if we win the clearance.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Think you'll find when it comes to mobile data, most countries have data limits on their mobile network plans. Where Australia becomes a joke is with wired connections to houses, a government that destroys a plan to finally upgrade a obselete technology because it'll hurt Murdoch and his mates at Telstra. Meaning people like myself have to rely on a 4G to maintain a average quality stream in 2016 whilst my ADSL manages 5-10 seconds between buffering....

How much are SMS's in Aus these days? Still 50 cents.

Australia is the rip off country

 

[Blaze Storm]

I dont think too many would question Hill's talent or fitness. The problem with Hill is, from time to time he simply doesnt try hard enough. You only need to look at Smith to see the difference. I think Hill could be at the Smith level if he was more consistent.

I simply disagree. Sure, he has off games, but his number of unrewarded leads is simply astounding. He is ranked amongst our top players for effective kicks and effective inside 50s.
I feel like people who compare Hill and Smith are doing a disservice to both Smith and Hill.

Smith is a distance runner, sure. But his breakout moments are when he uses his burst speed to break a line. He's a bolter.
Hill is a stayer. He takes the opposition flanker and runs them up and down the ground to keep them out of the action. If they don't follow, he bursts through and hits the scoreboard (see that behind-the-goal view of Hill's run in the 2014 grand final as an example).

The reason we don't get run down late is that the opposition runners are worn out from covering Hill (and Smith, Hartung and others contribute as well).

I would judge his worth on how he goes this year with lower interchange cap. Compare him to Cyril. Now cyril, the ultimate burst-player, will go missing for long periods of time, but Hill will keep rolling all game.

 

[Davo23]

I dont think too many would question Hill's talent or fitness. The problem with Hill is, from time to time he simply doesnt try hard enough. You only need to look at Smith to see the difference. I think Hill could be at the Smith level if he was more consistent.

I don't understand how you can say Hill "doesn't try hard enough".
The goals he kicked in the Prelims & Grand Finals in the last 3 years are based on gut-busting running.

And do you think a hard-nosed coach like Clarko is going to play him every week?

 

[PhatHQ]

Have a look at that highlights package on here at the 2.47 mark...it clearly shows a couple of things in that one passage of play up forward.

1st - Shoe alone demanding the ball as he had run into the space the others had opened up for him unmanned, yet the kick forward is an under pressure mongrel punt nowhere near him. Not shoes fault, he was clear if the kicker could have found him and opening up space behind himself at the same time.

2nd - it shows TOB where you'd expect him to to be with Shoe running away from that area BUT, he absolutely skirts the edge of the ball drop and misses it completely??? was he called out of it by Mitch??

this "skirting" the edge of the ball drop is actually very very common play in our forward line from Gunston and Roughie - is it instructed ?

Maybe this is where people think he is "soft" yet I can't help thinking some of this is instructed since our two best tall forwards also do it regularly at afl level, ok not as obvious as what TOB does it in that footage, so maybe Mitch did call him out, either way it didn't look great when viewing TOB in isolation without considering the play as a whole and whether or not its a common theme from all our tall forwards, and to me it is, just not as obvious.

At a guess I would say that those instructions go something like " position yourself at the most damaging spot to receive the ball after your teammate wins the contest". A different bounce & he's taking a snap with the right boot but he played to create space for Sam which was the right play.

 

[HairyO]

I don't understand how you can say Hill "doesn't try hard enough".
The goals he kicked in the Prelims & Grand Finals in the last 3 years are based on gut-busting running.

And do you think a hard-nosed coach like Clarko is going to play him every week?

I was more referring to the 2nd half of the regular season where he went missing most weeks.

 

[Brant]

I dont think too many would question Hill's talent or fitness. The problem with Hill is, from time to time he simply doesnt try hard enough. You only need to look at Smith to see the difference. I think Hill could be at the Smith level if he was more consistent.

I think Hill's biggest issue is that he has fumbly hands & often misses the opportunity to use his speed as he takes an age to pick up or retrieve the ball; or, he negatively turns small advantages in 50/50 (contested ball) for the same reason. Even on the most frustrating of days, I couldn't fault his endeavour or work-rate, but his output/effectiveness is questionable at times.

 

[Thaihawk]

I think Hill's biggest issue is that he has fumbly hands & often misses the opportunity to use his speed as he takes an age to pick up or retrieve the ball; or, he negatively turns small advantages in 50/50 (contested ball) for the same reason. Even on the most frustrating of days, I couldn't fault his endeavour or work-rate, but his output/effectiveness is questionable at times.

I am a great fan of Hill. I think he fumbles because he is concentrating on his next move before he takes clean possession. As far as posters saying he goes missing, well that is hard to determine when you only watch footy on TV. However, I remember the same was said about OSmith in his early games, until we realized he was doing unrewarded running to free up other options - part of Clarko's game plan. Hill and Billy both do many unrewarded miles in a game. The unrewarded miles refers to personal rewards, as the team usually benefits on the scoreboard, and that's what it's all about.

 

[Brant]

I am a great fan of Hill. I think he fumbles because he is concentrating on his next move before he takes clean possession. As far as posters saying he goes missing, well that is hard to determine when you only watch footy on TV. However, I remember the same was said about OSmith in his early games, until we realized he was doing unrewarded running to free up other options - part of Clarko's game plan. Hill and Billy both do many unrewarded miles in a game. The unrewarded miles refers to personal rewards, as the team usually benefits on the scoreboard, and that's what it's all about.

Totally agree!

It's evident when watching him, his mind is on his next move (running like Hell) before he's secured the ball & he often limits his own effectiveness as a result.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Out of the younger crop of players Howe, Sicily, O'rourke and Hartung and possibly Brand are the only ones that have a lot of potential. TOB needs to harden up and Heartherley is not physical enough. Otherwise pretty good signs ahead.

Obrien ran back with the flight and took a hit, he's not as weak as you make out.
Also Heatherley isn't the biggest bloke but plays on blokes that probably have a decent strength advantage. I'm actually a big fan of his because despite this he doesn't get beaten because he plays it smart and uses his closing speed and reach to cover for the lack of strength.

 

[Bikefreak]

There is no doubt population is part of the issue. The more customers the cheaper a service can be and still make money.
Landmass vs population impacts also for the same reason.
Wages are another issue in this country the more you have to pay for staff the more your product costs to make/sell.
And Telstra's monopoly has played a massive part also as you said.
Competition is necessary for the consumer not the company, the supermarket duopoly is another bad thing for this country.
The big 4 banks gives us stability but also a banking industry that gouges it's customers without fear and the fact there is no separation between consumer and investment banking means they have tax payer underwriting to go gamble on the money markets.

The other issue is the years of price gouging has got both us used to being exploited and the corporates used to their profits.

Very true words indeed my friend.

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[Jables]

I simply disagree. Sure, he has off games, but his number of unrewarded leads is simply astounding. He is ranked amongst our top players for effective kicks and effective inside 50s.
I feel like people who compare Hill and Smith are doing a disservice to both Smith and Hill.

Smith is a distance runner, sure. But his breakout moments are when he uses his burst speed to break a line. He's a bolter.
Hill is a stayer. He takes the opposition flanker and runs them up and down the ground to keep them out of the action. If they don't follow, he bursts through and hits the scoreboard (see that behind-the-goal view of Hill's run in the 2014 grand final as an example).

The reason we don't get run down late is that the opposition runners are worn out from covering Hill (and Smith, Hartung and others contribute as well).

I would judge his worth on how he goes this year with lower interchange cap. Compare him to Cyril. Now cyril, the ultimate burst-player, will go missing for long periods of time, but Hill will keep rolling all game.

I think he gets too much flak, but if Brad Hill is our whipping boy you know the team is all right. Was a time when Bateman was our best winger and no one had a problem with him until he aged a bit, and I feel like Hill will basically be around that level.

 

[Oooh Cyril]

Hard to make judgement based on only 1 game, especially one in Launceston where the games are usually scrappy.
But, based on last night:
- I don't think Litherland will make it. Posters have already mentioned his full skill-set which is his quick 15m run and bomb long. And, those bombs were terrible. When Lithers played tall, he got beaten (admittedly against a more seasoned campaigner in Casboult). Not small nor tall, and can't do either well yet, at senior level.
- Howe will make it. He plays the Hawthorn way. Knows the game-plan and structures well. Shows composure, neat skills, puts his body on the line, and knows where to be.
- Hartung shows enough. I wouldn't mind if he took Hills spot TBH. Can't seperate the 2 at the moment. If only one of them develops a little mongrel.....
- Sicily showed glimpses but not ready yet....but he's way ahead of TOB who was disappointing, as was Shoey.
- Willsmore needs more time, to be judged.
- Miles showed good driving in heavy traffic, Ayres-like. At this stage there is enough to suggest he'll get there.
- Brand and Kiwi looked ok for the Lake-Gibbo replacements in that order.
- Sorry to say but O'Rourke was very underwhelming. He has been overtaken by others that have come to the club after him. I just don't see anything at all that says he'll make it. Based on his age and junior footy however, I'd stick with him a while longer....and also just because a lot of other posters see something.
- Fitzy....well....he provided a contest, can take a mark, and I have a feeling that Clarko wants him to do just that. Will play in Roughs role I'd imagine, but BigBoy and Cegs still numbers 1 and 2 to ruck and rest forward.

Like I said, this is all based on 1 scrappy game, so let's hope Nab 2 and 3 provide more of a concrete insight into who will be best 22, and how we'll use our players.

 

[Oooh Cyril]

Miles didnt get much time but I was super impressed with a couple of things he did. Great reflexes and sure ball handling. I know he is relatively small......were do others think he can fit in eventually?

 

[Baz_hawk]

How much are SMS's in Aus these days? Still 50 cents.

Australia is the rip off country

No idea, if I recall the ACCC took telcos to court over them. There's no denying we pay overs for almost everything, no arguments here.

 

[Agent Smith]

Obrien ran back with the flight and took a hit, he's not as weak as you make out.

Actually, he squibbed the mark to protect his body, against an opposition that was showing minimal physical pressure. The fact he was running back with the mark was great, but just at the last second the 'fight or flight' scenario met him square in the eyes. He should have actually taken the mark but alas his main concern was personal safety. Nothing wrong with that per se, I just don't want those types of players running around for Hawthorn in games after September 1.

 

[OzJohnnie]

Could we stop the gratuitous wink, wink, nudge, nudge comments about politics. I'm a conservative and would enjoy Hawthorn talk rather than blathering about download speeds and the conspiracy to keep them slow.

Maybe we can have a politics board for that discussion?

 

[flinchfree]

Actually, he squibbed the mark to protect his body, against an opposition that was showing minimal physical pressure. The fact he was running back with the mark was great, but just at the last second the 'fight or flight' scenario met him square in the eyes. He should have actually taken the mark but alas his main concern was personal safety. Nothing wrong with that per se, I just don't want those types of players running around for Hawthorn in games after September 1.

I agree. I thought his last step was a short one as he became aware of oncoming traffic.
Burgoyne, Hodge, Duryea, Poppy, Cyril......and a host of others all run through that ball and mark it - especially if they're trying to earn a spot in the first 22 of the HFC.

 

[Bikefreak]

Could we stop the gratuitous wink, wink, nudge, nudge comments about politics. I'm a conservative and would enjoy Hawthorn talk rather than blathering about download speeds and the conspiracy to keep them slow.

Maybe we can have a politics board for that discussion?

Uuummm.....maybe don't those posts?????

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