2016 Non Freo discussion

[armpit]

Is Gillon McLachlan wearing a wig, he looks like Ray Martin.

Hard to believe how many of them dye their hair. What's going on!

 

[wayToGo_]

Is Gillon McLachlan wearing a wig, he looks like Ray Martin.

If I was him atm, I'd want to be able to conceal my identity at a moment's notice. Wig, no wig.

 

[armpit]

Maybe they are being scapegoated

Everyone at that club lost the plot but at the end of the day these guys are young husbands, brothers, sons, father's who have been through hell and back and now had the axe fall on life as they know it. Pretty bloody harsh because they ended up at a dodgy club with a dodgy coach and dodgy administrators. I feel seriously bad for them and a little empathy wouldn't go astray with some of you guys as well.

I know. This is correct thinking and I wish I could be so nice but no! because I remember a game over here where that team/ those players beat us and oh how they celebrated and belted out their song in the rooms and james was in that circle and jobe was all emotional. Considering they'd just been accused, it was sickening and we needed the points.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

I haven't been able to find it but I have read something that said players suspended for banned substances can't be paid by the club but like I said, I haven't found it again.

Hi Tayl0r I think that comment came out from Demetriou in relation to proposed $1M payment for Heard by Essendon (as salary for the year he was suspended by the AFL). Essendon paid Heard in the December so they weren't paying him in his suspension year.

 

[yoong]

See this is just confusing because it's 2 separate answers that should be 2 separate questions.

Will the banned players be paid their playing contracts? Yes (from what it says there)

Will the banned players receive other money from the EFC from loss of potential earnings, other sue-able reasons? The AFLPA is going for a settlement rather than suing the club.

The players will probably get paid their contracts (minus match payments) but anything above and beyond that will be either through courts or a settlement.

I read it differently.
I see this as Essendon paying the players as a settlement in exchange for the players not suing them.

 

[Freodoc]

Everyone at that club lost the plot but at the end of the day these guys are young husbands, brothers, sons, father's who have been through hell and back and now had the axe fall on life as they know it. Pretty bloody harsh because they ended up at a dodgy club with a dodgy coach and dodgy administrators. I feel seriously bad for them and a little empathy wouldn't go astray with some of you guys as well.

I understand your sentiments but....
They sought to get an edge over the other clubs = cheating
They got caught = guilty
They cop the punishment = that's how it goes

Players are given a truck load advice regarding matters of supplements etc and must wear some of the collective blame. Yes, I think it would be really hard for a rookie to say "no", but cannot excuse their behaviour.
Don't think for one micro-second that Freo would have been given one zillionth of the "help" from the AFL, whom incidentally should come under some scrutiny for their role in this, as we would have been hung out to dry big time.

Rant over

 

[SiempreFreo]

Everyone at that club lost the plot but at the end of the day these guys are young husbands, brothers, sons, father's who have been through hell and back and now had the axe fall on life as they know it. Pretty bloody harsh because they ended up at a dodgy club with a dodgy coach and dodgy administrators. I feel seriously bad for them and a little empathy wouldn't go astray with some of you guys as well.

I feel for these players who have a very tough year ahead, just as I felt for Crowls. He had to survive somehow, they must too. It's hard, it's very sad - but the rules are there, they're known and should be applied equally. Decisions have consequences whether you are Ryan or an Essendon player.

 

[holy diver]

The EFC coupled with the AFL's meddling all through this affair has caused some serious long term damage.

The AFL has not copped enough flak for it's part in this sorry tale. Heads should roll.

 

[gaskin]

Yes, it's a suspension not a deregistration. I'm sure the AFL will pick up the GWS tab . Don't know how the wafl players or their clubs (or Nathan L-M who coaches in a country league) are dealt with though.

The WAFL players sit out the 12 months. South released a statement this afternoon about Dell'Olio saying he will sit out the season.

 

[not_working]

See this is just confusing because it's 2 separate answers that should be 2 separate questions.

Will the banned players be paid their playing contracts? Yes (from what it says there)

Will the banned players receive other money from the EFC from loss of potential earnings, other sue-able reasons? The AFLPA is going for a settlement rather than suing the club.

The players will probably get paid their contracts (minus match payments) but anything above and beyond that will be either through courts or a settlement.

I don't think that is what it says ... the players will (likely) be paid by Essendon, but they cannot be paid under their contract (according to the AFL's anti-doping rules). I think there even was a statement in the AFL media release this morning stating that even so there are no player payments, the (theoretical) salaries still count against the cap.

So how will the players get paid? As they have a loss of earnings, they could sue Essendon for causing this loss of earnings (by forcing them to take supplements, unsafe workplace, etc.) - of course, it is not likely to ever get to that as both parties may prefer to settle out of court before. How much that settlement is then subject to negotiation, but it would include at a minimum base pay, likely match fees, marketing money, etc.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Yes, it's a suspension not a deregistration. I'm sure the AFL will pick up the GWS tab . Don't know how the wafl players or their clubs (or Nathan L-M who coaches in a country league) are dealt with though.

From what I have read today it looks like Essendon are paying their 12 players and working in with AFLPA about being paid the base fee but probably no game fees component.

 

[PapaJ]

So Essendon won't pay the WAFL three.

Lawsuit!

If it's going to be settled out of court, I'd hope the AFLPA would include the non-AFL players because they wont have the clout to take on the 'dons on their own (you'd think). Basically the AFLPA need to act as if they'll bring a class action lawsuit (or there may be other avenues, I'm not legal expert) which includes those ex-AFL now WAFL players.

 

[theGav56]

Gee I am pretty happy with the result and think it is the best approach to keeping sport as clean as possible. And I definitely think the players should not be paid. That would be silly in my opinion. Quite simply the obligation resting with individuals is a good approach to take.

In addition I think the Brownlow should be voluntarily returned and Hird given a life time suspension from the AFL.

 

[HowieD]

From what I have read today it looks like Essendon are paying their 12 players and working in with AFLPA about being paid the base fee but probably no game fees component.

They'll get base contract wages, and will have serious recourse for compensation from the EFC and possibly the AFL for damages to reputation (cannot display their wares this year to get endorsements, etc.), earnings (games component of year, future contract sizes, etc.) and limitation of careers (mainly for players on the edge of the playing group or nearing 30). If the EFC were smart, they would settle everything before the suspensions end, and this could be anywhere from about $0.5m per player to $1.5m per player.

 

[Sweetback]

I think with the conviction, a lot of the denial will provide less resistance. EFC and the AFL have done a good job of working the narrative of the unfortunate players, but the penny has to drop that the players are only unfortunate due to the reprehensible mismanagement of the club. That will start with the spectre of litigation.

Edit: The narrative is changing:

Watson said his initial anger with his old club over the three-year saga had turned to sadness, but that he remained bemused about why it had pursued the supplements program.

"I was angry with them all. For good reason," he said.

"I know they didn't set out to break any WADA and ASADA rules, but the fact is they were putting themselves in a precarious position about how this would be viewed and perceived if someone broke ranks and spoke about it publicly," he said.

"When you do the risk management, it just didn't make any sense to me that these men, who I know well and respect, would actually arrive at that position and would not think that this wasn't a great idea."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...away-says-his-father-tim-20160112-gm4neb.html

 

[wayToGo_]

Has anyone else checked out the thread on Essendon's board? Far out, I do feel legitimately sorry for Bombers supporters but they do themselves no justice by replicating the same delusional diatribe their club has been vomiting up for years.

One particular favourite is a recent post that blamed Julia Gillard's government for what had happened. This was quickly followed by the supposedly harsh penalties just being a play for our drug agencies to flaunt themselves on the international stage as they are just wanabee characters in a Sherlock Holmes novel. How these sensible theories didn't make their way to the Court of Arbitration is beyond me. If they had, it is obvious the distinguished members of the panel would have seen it is all just a conspiracy against Essendon and the outcome would have been far different.

Others blamed the various lawyers for not defending their clients suitably during the hearing. Maybe they are in on it also? Reckon there is another untapped conspiracy theory there for Bomber supporters to slot in.

Many also claim that the AFL are just set on punishing them to the fullest extent. Wtf? The AFL have done everything in their power to try and cover this whole mess up. Admittedly making it even worse in the process but at least they are taking some of the heat off EFC by looking just as dodgy.

If I was a Bomber member/supporter I'd be directing any and all blame toward the EFC and its coaches, management and players of that time. They are the ones who have let you down and they are the ones you should be forcing to take responsibility so this whole saga can be put to rest and moved on from. The time to try and pass the buck is over, it's going to take years to rebuild, why delay your starting point?

 

[theGav56]

They'll get base contract wages, and will have serious recourse for compensation from the EFC and possibly the AFL for damages to reputation (cannot display their wares this year to get endorsements, etc.), earnings (games component of year, future contract sizes, etc.) and limitation of careers (mainly for players on the edge of the playing group or nearing 30). If the EFC were smart, they would settle everything before the suspensions end, and this could be anywhere from about $0.5m per player to $1.5m per player.

Maybe I am too simple. It is the players as individuals who have been found guilty. They took things they are not permitted to take, they failed to get clearance from the relevant bodies, they withheld information about having taken the substances and being injected and they have been suspended as a result. One player said "no" so clearly it was an option available to them all. They may claim that they did not know this or that, but under their contractual obligations when they play AFL it is their duty to know, and the fact they did not disclose about the injections indicates that they did indeed understand that they were possibly outside the guidelines.

Regarding should they get paid or receive money from Essendon, I just think whatever the WADA guidelines are regarding this should be followed, and my understanding is that they should not.

 

[aussieviking]

I must admit right from the beginning I couldn't understand why at least some of the players would not have queried what was being given to them. Surely they would have consulted the club doctor to query the substances and maybe get something in writing. Maybe Their player managers should have been informed so that they could get the information. The managers would have been aware that all injections ,medications require some documentation.

Perhaps at the time players were not as aware that it was in fact their responsibility for what is injected or taken.

I just hope that the other responsible parties don't walk away free from serious punishment.I also hope that all clubs learn from this because another episode like this would really destroy football.

 

[ilikepotatoes]

Sick of all the sorry for the players BS.

I feel sorry for the fans, they deserve a bloody good apology.

 

[meima]

Sick of all the sorry for the players BS.

I feel sorry for the fans, they deserve a bloody good apology.

Agree the whole saga only the fans deserve sorry.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Sick of all the sorry for the players BS.

I feel sorry for the fans, they deserve a bloody good apology.

Many supporters are delusional

 

[Belnakor]

surely a player in the system as long as he has been has a bit of coin put aside?

lol. The vast majority of AFL players, even the long term ones when they finish don't have a buck to their name

 

[Belnakor]

One player said "no" so clearly it was an option available to them all. They may claim that they did not know this or that, but under their contractual obligations when they play AFL it is their duty to know, and the fact they did not disclose about the injections indicates that they did indeed understand that they were possibly outside the guidelines.

Regarding should they get paid or receive money from Essendon, I just think whatever the WADA guidelines are regarding this should be followed, and my understanding is that they should not.

Reimers saying no is going to hurt them badly IMHO. If everyone had done it, it could have been spun as being "forced" etc.

I don't think they can get any money from Essendon either. At least not for their contract for this year. Though i guess Essendon can give them an ex-grata payment for their contract amount.

 

[freoextra]

Reimers saying no is going to hurt them badly IMHO. If everyone had done it, it could have been spun as being "forced" etc.

I don't think they can get any money from Essendon either. At least not for their contract for this year. Though i guess Essendon can give them an ex-grata payment for their contract amount.

So is it confirmed that it was Reimers that said no? I thought I heard of some other player who simply knocked back the injections because he didn't like needles.

 

[simpsonwillo]

So is it confirmed that it was Reimers that said no? I thought I heard of some other player who simply knocked back the injections because he didn't like needles.

Zaharakis I think it was