List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 2

[Strahany]

Totally get your enthusiasm Premium - I’d love a gun FA as well. But speaking to a Player Manager a this year, one of the key things they look for is their IP. For the top 5% of players their marketability off field is as important as any pay cheque onfield.

This is why FA isn’t working. The best players from bottom teams are happy to take say a 25% pay cut in a successful big 6 team, because not only are their marketing dollars increased during tenure but also post tenure.

It absolutely sucks. But it’s why the Lynch’s of the world are choosing better sides.

How does it change? Not sure. For now though, we need to target the ones that make us a better side. I’d rather two best 22 players than nothing..

The AFLPA picked apart the features of American leagues like the NBA, took the features that they liked, and threw out the rest. They want extra rights, in the manifestation of the ability to pick their side via Free Agency, but don’t want to afford teams the extra rights of trading a player without their consent.

Combine a team’s ability to trade a player without their consent with no minimum salary cap payment, and it’ll go a long way to fixing it. Like you said, people want to go to big market clubs and will forgo bigger salaries at smaller clubs, under the pretense that they’ll earn it back in the long run and/or are more likely to achieve playing success. In a system where players can be traded without consent and there’s no minimum salary cap, then they won’t be forgoing 25% - they’ll be forgoing 40% or more. As for that benefit of playing for a big market club, that’s out the window when said club could trade you at any second.

Would a player still take a 40% pay cut to play for a big market club? Maybe. Would they do this in a league where they could be traded the following year? That gives them something else to think about.

 

[Saintsydney]

One of those stats set ups had Newnes as our fourth highest ranked player. If he's a fringe player at other clubs when he improves where does that leave our list.

See if we can swap Longer for Preuss, they keep a back up ruck with lots of experience, he gets money we get our player. Give them a pick in the 40s as sweetener.

More than happy with your take on it - I just want to see the deal done and would be willing to send a player sweetener and a ruckman ( for the record I think both Hickey and Longer should be moved on and we should be getting 1 ruckman back in - I much prefer that to be Preuss than lycett)

with regard to Newnes being a fringe player on another list - I had not really been making that point - my point was I actually think he could still be a good number 22 on our list if he improves a couple of things - because he can play front,middle back so a handy guy to have on the bench - probably makes him better than fringe if he is best 22 and the last guy on the bench every week - his position at another club should he go - is not my concern - I don't care if he is ruck rover or orange boy once he leaves (if he was to)

 

[pebblesofsand]

Maybe. If GC force Richmond to trade then they probably get 2 first round picks or a player and a first round pick. That is comparable or marginally worse than a single compensation pick, however, it also means that Richmond are weakened in the trade and don't just get Lynch for free.

Alternatively, you could just restrict compensation picks to clubs that are outside the 8. Therefore, GC gets a compensation pick but West Coast wouldn't.

What has to be addressed is a club getting stronger via free agency but still maintaining its draft picks. Given that players are more likely to move to more successful clubs if that happens FA becomes patently unfair.

Maybe a FA move needs to be treated as a trade - lets say Richmond gets Lynch but has to find compensatory picks to match GCS's loss. Unfortunately in the absence of a independent umpire, the only arbiter of the "value" of the player can be the AFL itself.

AFL says Lynch is equal to a Number 1 to 3 pick - Richmond then have to find between 2234 and 3000 points during the trade period to give to GCS.

It then becomes a bit more like the Academy selection process - I think!!!!!

 

[Mowman]

Right now it's too much in favour of the player dictating terms.

As yawkey says, the clubs should be able to trade players as they see fit and before FA in order to get the best return.

Also... In the case of Lynch, tigers should forfeit their first round.

Agree with most of it.
But if Tigers forfeit 1st round pick for Lynch what should we forfeit for Lycett

 

[Stewart66]

I would be all over Goddard. Some of our softies could do with his level of standards around the place.

Could also be the footskills coach in development role .

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Agree with most of it.
But if Tigers forfeit 1st round pick for Lynch what should we forfeit for Lycett

Longer or Hickey


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[crasha301]

Bring bj in on a 200k contract and tell him he won't play anymore then 5-8 games.

He'd be very valuable down at sandy teaching the kids zones, structures ect.

I was always a fan of bj's finger pointing and brain snaps, he showed passion and that he really cared.

And to be honest some of our boys could use a finger point or 2.



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[Hawkboy62]

Is McVeigh retiring? Yeah, he would be a better option

Think McVeigh wants to go on but Swans want to move him on. Probably salary cap related, but also stopping the development of new players. More likely to join Dew at the Suns with a Hodge like scenario. Play one year and transition into coaching.
Unless the Suns make a godfather offer for Lloyd.

 

[stfan]

Think you’re right though, there should be some changes next year. Lowering the amount of years it takes to become a free agent would be a good start.

That would only make more good players go to the top teams of whatever year it is. Those further down just getting the also rans.

I mean as an example what really good player might not want to join the Tigers at present.

Making more players eligible each year would just make it easier for teams in the window to stay in the window.

The biggest problem with FA is that the club receiving can gain a star at not cost. This is the flaw. The club receiving should have to forgo the point cost of the payer they gain and what ever pics that equates to. This needs to be down before any trading too.

 

[VDS66]

Agree with most of it.
But if Tigers forfeit 1st round pick for Lynch what should we forfeit for Lycett

I propose these changes be implemented next year!

Fair point actually. As another poster mentioned, it will come down to player value.

Or you keep the band compo formula, and based on that the new club has to forfeit that pick.

Lycett would probably be the equivalent of a second round pick for example.

I just find the idea that a club can grab an FA and still keep all their draft picks ridiculous.

I also like the idea that GCS could have had the option to trade out Lynch last year if he didn't commit.

 

[Animal Cager]

I don’t understand what makes this information any more seemingly malicious than some of the other postings by the other so called ITK's that seem to get kissed on the dick around here?

I posted that Jack Billings wants to stay at the saints yet his management is currently encouraging him to explore other options... and suddenly, I’m a disgruntled employee (or ex-employee lol), I hate Jack (because I call him 'latte' like everybody else) and I'm big noting myself by apparently releasing commercially sensitive information?

FWIW I work WITH the Saints, not FOR the Saints and therefore any of the views or information I have a about players/staff (outside of their medical records/history) are my own and are like any other member of the public sharing non-harmful information.

If you really care about what I do for a living - feel free to PM me (I have no secrets to hide), but relax with the Helen Lovejoy outcry.

:eyeroll:

Not going to speculate on whether or not your info is accurate. If you do catch up with him again, you may want to query the ethics of his manager given that Jack's under contract. He probably needs to be looking sideways at his manager's cunning plan, he is under contract and doesn't have complete control of the situation. He may find himself at the Gold Coast if he takes notice of his manager's advice.

He also needs to realize that he's his own man and his father is an Essendon supporter. It appears that his Dad's passion for the EFC has overidden any concern for Essendon's recent abject & spectacular neglect of due diligence, lawful governance, fiduciary duty, ethics and duty of care to their players. I'm a parent and I cannot believe that any parent would be content with their son going to that Club.

 

[St Neil]

Tom Morris just reported on Fox Footy that Saints are into Paul Seedsman who is out of contract with Adelaide.

Crows have offered him a 3 year deal but he wants 4 years.

Morris said Saints believe he is the sort of player they need: experienced, quick and skilful.

Morris also suggested that Seedsman could be ‘trade bait’ to help Adelaide move up the draft order to get an early 1st RDP so they can draft Lukosius.

 

[#gosaintas]

Tom Morris just reported on Fox Footy that Saints are into Paul Seedsman who is out of contract with Adelaide.

Crows have offered him a 3 year deal but he wants 4 years.

Morris said Saints believe he is the sort of player they need: experienced, quick and skilful.

Morris also suggested that Seedsman could be ‘trade bait’ to help Adelaide move up the draft order to get an early 1st RDP so they can draft Lukosius.

I wanta sook before Gringo.

Oh No - we are giving up pick 4 for the seed

 

[Yawkey way]

The AFLPA picked apart the features of American leagues like the NBA, took the features that they liked, and threw out the rest. They want extra rights, in the manifestation of the ability to pick their side via Free Agency, but don’t want to afford teams the extra rights of trading a player without their consent.

Combine a team’s ability to trade a player without their consent with no minimum salary cap payment, and it’ll go a long way to fixing it. Like you said, people want to go to big market clubs and will forgo bigger salaries at smaller clubs, under the pretense that they’ll earn it back in the long run and/or are more likely to achieve playing success. In a system where players can be traded without consent and there’s no minimum salary cap, then they won’t be forgoing 25% - they’ll be forgoing 40% or more. As for that benefit of playing for a big market club, that’s out the window when said club could trade you at any second.

Would a player still take a 40% pay cut to play for a big market club? Maybe. Would they do this in a league where they could be traded the following year? That gives them something else to think about.

Exactly cherry picked parts they liked and people wonder why the system doesn’t work.

 

[VDS66]

Pick 4 for seedsman, 7 and 13?

 

[St Neil]

I wanta sook before Gringo.

Oh No - we are giving up pick 4 for the seed

I don’t think Morris was speculating it would be a straight swap, but as part of a trade of 1st RDPs.

He also reported it was something Adelaide might consider. Personally I don’t think Saints would consider it.

 

[Premium]

Needs a summer in the weights room and a big pre season, but I'll be disappointed if he's not best 22 by next year.

A lot of these kids really need a couple seasons - to build strength and fitness , coming into to a AFL set up in there first year is a huge step.
Expect big improvement in both next year with a bunch of the other kids.

and the last thing i would like to see is a Goddard coming into the team and twisting off - if we get a guy for experience get a guy who is calm and doesn't have to scream and shout like a pork chop.

 

[Yawkey way]

I wanta sook before Gringo.

Oh No - we are giving up pick 4 for the seed

Seedsman trade bait to move up the draft, what the hell is Tom Morris smoking.

 

[Mowman]

Pick 4 for seedsman, 7 and 13?

Yes
As long as we don’t give 7 or 13 to the swans

 

[#gosaintas]

I don’t think Morris was speculating it would be a straight swap, but as part of a trade of 1st RDPs.

He also reported it was something Adelaide might consider. Personally I don’t think Saints would consider it.

I know mate - was only kidding.
Need to brush up on those emoji's or whatever they're called

 

[Sainteric]

i dunno if Hanneberry is the right guy , but for the right price you take him as he lifts the average standard of our list a fair bit ... he would be in the side to help the younger guys to develop not a short term fix but a short term solution to a long term problem

So what is armo and Steven's there for?

Besides that I dont think we have enough young cattle to lift up.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

So what is armo and Steven's there for?

Besides that I dont think we have enough young cattle to lift up.

Armo is realistically list clogging ....
Stevens is retired now

 

[bird_man]

Richmond will have to let go of a few to afford Lynch.

I'd prefer we throw a good contract at Houli rather than Goddard. Fills a need with his run and carry, still playing good footy and is a great character.

 

[gringo2011]

Hannebery Trade

What do we trade to land him?

Swans board are already dreaming of landing our first pick 3 or 4 or 5 or 6

Is he worth our first pick? I dont think so. He is not in his prime, bit cooked, i reckon second round pick.

He’ll be the greatest trade since Daisy Thomas. Should see if they want next years first as well.

 

[bird_man]

https://sportsdayradio.com.au/2018/08/21/st-kilda-after-out-of-contract-crow/

Could be a good get if it were the right price

Body is a worry though