Analysis 2019 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

[connolly]

The year before he had a shocker?

When he was out of the team early we were losing to everyone. He came back and was one of our best if not our best in getting us to the finals, only losing once.

fair enough you don't like him but you seriously are just making stuff up about mcveigh.

I more than like him. I admire him as a man. I simply think he is too slow and shouldn't be playing in preference to younger and quicker players. This response to a criticism of a player or coach because of performance issues being mischaracterised as a personal dislike is really getting a bit tiresome.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I more than like him. I admire him as a man. I simply think he is too slow and shouldn't be playing in preference to younger and quicker players. This response to a criticism of a player or coach because of performance issues being mischaracterised as a personal dislike is really getting a bit tiresome.

When all you have are young players who make bad decisions and have questionable skills, it’s a recipe for disaster. McVeigh adds that on ground leadership, game sense, and ability to set up play. Doesn’t matter how slow he’s become he’s the only one we can rely on at the moment and he needs to be out there for our youngsters to set their standards. The game will go past him soon but not just yet.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Nah. You give Horse too much credit for the execution of the gameplan. He tells players what he would like them to do. That doesn't mean they do it.

Ok so you don't recognise it. Take your seat at the table Sir.

 

[6yearsold]

I more than like him. I admire him as a man. I simply think he is too slow and shouldn't be playing in preference to younger and quicker players. This response to a criticism of a player or coach because of performance issues being mischaracterised as a personal dislike is really getting a bit tiresome.

How else can you characterise it when you describe one of his best years for us as a player as a shocker. If it is not personal you are just a very poor judge. You do not need to be quick when you have skills like Mcveigh. Why would you not criticise instead someone like nick smith who is both slow and has poor skills?

Performance issues? There are no performance issues except in your head as it relates to Mcveigh. He is probably our most skilful player and keeps delivering which is why he keeps getting contracted.

Just saying you want younger and quicker players in the team is a really shallow reason to be calling for someones head.

 

[robbieando]

I more than like him. I admire him as a man. I simply think he is too slow and shouldn't be playing in preference to younger and quicker players.

It's fine to think he is too slow and that is fine as a statement of fact, but he has shown he for the past season and a half that he performs in his role and position at a higher level than any of our "younger and quicker" options to replace him are able to. Who is he holding back and importantly when he has missed games who has stepped up in his place? No one "younger and quicker" thats for sure. Hopefully thats something thats sorted out this season, but until then he has a spot in the team.

This response to a criticism of a player or coach because of performance issues being mischaracterised as a personal dislike is really getting a bit tiresome.

Response to to a mischaracterisation of a player or coaches performance issues being mischaracterised are getting very tiresome as well. It appears as if one side of an argument can say what they like but a response to say otherwise to dispute a claim is a grave injustice. This is becoming common on all sides sadly.

 

[McRobie]

Sorry but that statement is just plain wrong, we went 8 - 3 against top 8 sides last year so the game plan was clearly better than "just good enough to knock off middle of the road teams".
Our biggest issue last year was we were crap at home, purely and simply, why? I don't know, but please don't re-write history to try and make your point.

If you took the time to read my post instead of getting outraged, I said to knock off better sides when they are off and also said it’s not sustainable for 3-4 finals games. Ffs...

 

[connolly]

When all you have are young players who make bad decisions and have questionable skills, it’s a recipe for disaster. McVeigh adds that on ground leadership, game sense, and ability to set up play. Doesn’t matter how slow he’s become he’s the only one we can rely on at the moment and he needs to be out there for our youngsters to set their standards. The game will go past him soon but not just yet.

Perhaps I should have said younger players. The bloke is 33

 

[connolly]

It's fine to think he is too slow and that is fine as a statement of fact, but he has shown he for the past season and a half that he performs in his role and position at a higher level than any of our "younger and quicker" options to replace him are able to. Who is he holding back and importantly when he has missed games who has stepped up in his place? No one "younger and quicker" thats for sure. Hopefully thats something thats sorted out this season, but until then he has a spot in the team.



Response to to a mischaracterisation of a player or coaches performance issues being mischaracterised are getting very tiresome as well. It appears as if one side of an argument can say what they like but a response to say otherwise to dispute a claim is a grave injustice. This is becoming common on all sides sadly.

With respect that's not what I wrote or meant. Just because a payer or coaches performance is questioned or criticised (as it should be as we are not a glee club) should not be read as a criticism of the person. McV is a good person. As a footballer now due to age not so good. An opinion from our side of the fence. It is a fact McV is slow. If you believe his lack of speed is ok or outweighed by other factors fair enough. Where has that response been mischaracterised by me?

 

[robbieando]

With respect that's not what I wrote or meant.

With respect you've ignored my post and failed to answer who McVeigh is holding back which you said he was playing in preference to. You can keep bringing up his lack of speed and I've said that view is fine to have, but please inform us all who is he keeping out of the side and lets have that discussion.

 

[connolly]

How else can you characterise it when you describe one of his best years for us as a player as a shocker. If it is not personal you are just a very poor judge. You do not need to be quick when you have skills like Mcveigh. Why would you not criticise instead someone like nick smith who is both slow and has poor skills?

Performance issues? There are no performance issues except in your head as it relates to Mcveigh. He is probably our most skilful player and keeps delivering which is why he keeps getting contracted.

Just saying you want younger and quicker players in the team is a really shallow reason to be calling for someones head.

1. Smith is not as slow as McV or as past it. I have criticised Smith and believe he will struggle for selection next season also.
2. So McV is "probably our most skilful player"? You are kidding. Franklin is more than probably our most skilful player. In terms of skills I would also rate Mills, Rampe and Heeney as better than him at this stage of his career - if you mean the skills of marking, tackling, ball handling and kicking. He has always been weak overhead and not a strong tackler. A very good outside player but very one sided.
3. Once again my assessment is NOT an ad hominem. I am not "calling for his head". At this stage of what must be his last season he would contribute more to the club in the NEAFL showing the really young kids how to go about it.
4. Yes this opinion is in my head and not out of my arse.

 

[connolly]

With respect you've ignored my post and failed to answer who McVeigh is holding back which you said he was playing in preference to. You can keep bringing up his lack of speed and I've said that view is fine to have, but please inform us all who is he keeping out of the side and lets have that discussion.

My post was in regard to next season. My view is that we need a quicker rebounding half back line as part of a more attacking game plan. Our lack of speed in transition is a glaring weakness in our game plan. So logically we play defenders with run and speed. So in preference to a 33 year old slow half back flanker we have Thurlow, COR, Melican, Stoddart, Lloyd, Rampe and Clarke (dependent on form and in no particular order). And these preferences are on the assumption that Mills and Jones will play as midfielders. He also is too slow to lay as an outside mid so he has no versatility compared to Clarke, Thurlow, Jones and COR. Is all this totally unreasonable????? That's a fair number of preferences in front of a 33 year old in the last year of his career. Who is also probably the slowest half back flanker in the comp. Leg speed is important if you want a quick rebounding half back line. Hardly radical thinking and just an opinion.

 

[Jewelsbon]

If you took the time to read my post instead of getting outraged, I said to knock off better sides when they are off and also said it’s not sustainable for 3-4 finals games. Ffs...

Obviously you are the type that doesn't like people seeing things differently - you are correct 100% of the time and no-one else is allowed an opinion.
Okay then that's cool, perhaps you should end every post with the sentence -
"Don't disagree with me because it pisses me off" then we would all know where we stand.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Obviously you are the type that doesn't like people seeing things differently - you are correct 100% of the time and no-one else is allowed an opinion.
Okay then that's cool, perhaps you should end every post with the sentence -
"Don't disagree with me because it pisses me off" then we would all know where we stand.

You might care to review your opening statement. Every poster is a person, not a "type".

 

[6yearsold]

1. Smith is not as slow as McV or as past it. I have criticised Smith and believe he will struggle for selection next season also.
2. So McV is "probably our most skilful player"? You are kidding. Franklin is more than probably our most skilful player. In terms of skills I would also rate Mills, Rampe and Heeney as better than him at this stage of his career - if you mean the skills of marking, tackling, ball handling and kicking. He has always been weak overhead and not a strong tackler. A very good outside player but very one sided.
3. Once again my assessment is NOT an ad hominem. I am not "calling for his head". At this stage of what must be his last season he would contribute more to the club in the NEAFL showing the really young kids how to go about it.
4. Yes this opinion is in my head and not out of my arse.

I don't know why the Swans hierarchy haven't thought of this already but, lets just have a 100 metre sprint race for the entire squad and the first 18 home get to play round 1. Just an opinion.

 

[bungee]

Correct we will have a strong age profile in three or four years time, but it will all be for naught if Horse & co can’t get the best out of them. I still have my reservations there...

So next time you take your date to a posh restaurant and the maitre d' stares down his nose at you as you open the door....

"Good evening, we'd like a table for two"
"I beg your pardon sir, but do you have reservations ?"
"Of course I have reservations, and not just for this evening. Quite frankly, I'm worried sick that Horse won't get the best out of our young talent".
"Very drôle sir. I see you're a Swans fan. I'm afraid we're rather full this evening"
"Gee, I hope you haven't eaten all the food" you laugh at your joke.
He rolls his eyes. "How witty you are sir. Luckily it seems we do have a table outside for you"
"You mean on the terrace ?" Your eyes light up at thought of joining a buzz of beautiful people enjoying a warm evening under the night sky. You sense your date warming to you.
"No sir. I mean OUTSIDE" He gestures dismissively towards the golden arches in the distance.

 

[bungee]

I don't know why the Swans hierarchy haven't thought of this already but, lets just have a 100 metre sprint race for the entire squad and the first 18 home get to play round 1. Just an opinion.

Why recruit footballers if we only needed sprinters ?

 

[bungee]

You might care to review your opening statement. Every poster is a person, not a "type".

Seemed a pretty innocuous statement to me. I think Jewels simply meant 'a certain type of person'.

 

[bungee]

My post was in regard to next season. My view is that we need a quicker rebounding half back line as part of a more attacking game plan. Our lack of speed in transition is a glaring weakness in our game plan. So logically we play defenders with run and speed. So in preference to a 33 year old slow half back flanker we have Thurlow, COR, Melican, Stoddart, Lloyd, Rampe and Clarke (dependent on form and in no particular order). And these preferences are on the assumption that Mills and Jones will play as midfielders. He also is too slow to lay as an outside mid so he has no versatility compared to Clarke, Thurlow, Jones and COR. Is all this totally unreasonable????? That's a fair number of preferences in front of a 33 year old in the last year of his career. Who is also probably the slowest half back flanker in the comp. Leg speed is important if you want a quick rebounding half back line. Hardly radical thinking and just an opinion.

I see your point Connolly, especially regarding youth but Macca is an accurate distributor by foot and that can often be faster than running the ball from defence. He has the skills to pinpoint kicks where we might not be able to run and carry through opposition. He sets up an enormous amount of our rebounding. Overall, his ball distribution, leadership and general pointing is invaluable, especially to less experienced defenders. To an extent he's our version of Hodge.

 

[bungee]

Ok so you don't recognise it. Take your seat at the table Sir.

"The lack of ability to keep the foot on the throat and put teams away kills us and keeps the opposition in the game on most occasions right until the end."

This point is 100% spot on and anyone who has an inability to recognise it has no clue what so ever. Fact.

Wolfie, I'm simply saying that a team "not keeping their foot on the throat" may not be entirely at the discretion of the coach.

BTW. I don't think it's helpful to declare that any person who holds an "opinion" that differs from your "opinion" in support of another "opinion" must have "no clue whatsoever"

ps. I'm 100% right and anyone who disagrees with me is a complete moron (Do you see how "Donald Trump" that sounds ?)

 

[connolly]

I see your point Connolly, especially regarding youth but Macca is an accurate distributor by foot and that can often be faster than running the ball from defence. He has the skills to pinpoint kicks where we might not be able to run and carry through opposition. He sets up an enormous amount of our rebounding. Overall, his ball distribution, leadership and general pointing is invaluable, especially to less experienced defenders. To an extent he's our version of Hodge.

Fair enough. But I would point out that he is no longer playing for Hawthorn . The agitated gnome let him go for a reason.

 

[dosser]

This point is 100% spot on and anyone who has an inability to recognise it has no clue what so ever. Fact.

Opinion

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

"The lack of ability to keep the foot on the throat and put teams away kills us and keeps the opposition in the game on most occasions right until the end."



Wolfie, I'm simply saying that a team "not keeping their foot on the throat" may not be entirely at the discretion of the coach.

BTW. I don't think it's helpful to declare that any person who holds an "opinion" that differs from your "opinion" in support of another "opinion" must have "no clue whatsoever"

ps. I'm 100% right and anyone who disagrees with me is a complete moron (Do you see how "Donald Trump" that sounds ?)

Why then after we build an early lead do we go ultra defensive? It is reflex coaching.

Initially I thought the 666 and the kick in rule changes would help us. Now I think Horse will:
Instruct at least 8 mids and forwards to charge back after the ball is bounced. Whether we win the centre clearance is immaterial.

As for kick ins, the instruction is to run forward then chip sideways or backwards.

Of course I could be wrong. If Horse tries it on the players should collectively ignore him.

 

[connolly]

I don't know why the Swans hierarchy haven't thought of this already but, lets just have a 100 metre sprint race for the entire squad and the first 18 home get to play round 1. Just an opinion.

They have thought of it. We have recruited very quick players over the last two seasons. Those 20 metre sprints at Draft camp have been noticed.

 

[connolly]

Why then after we build an early lead do we go ultra defensive? It is reflex coaching.

Initially I thought the 666 and the kick in rule changes would help us. Now I think Horse will:
Instruct at least 8 mids and forwards to charge back after the ball is bounced. Whether we win the centre clearance is immaterial.

As for kick ins, the instruction is to run forward then chip sideways or backwards.

Of course I could be wrong. If Horse tries it on the players should collectively ignore him.

Its worse than reflex coaching. Longmire is an instruction coach and game micro manager. The best coaching for the new rules are systems coaches where the players are TRUSTED and given the freedom to use their initiative, football intelligence, skill and yes heaven forbid - speed. Such a way out concept of speed on the game. Heaven forbid that Franklin, Allir, Florent, Mills and Heeney were even given the freedom to play their natural game. Longmire is still coaching ten years ago when we had not the most skillful lists and played a very defensive style. Do we reckon Longmire is going to trust his players to play to an attacking system and take their own initiative. Well do we?

 

[Wolftone]

The only time I ever bet on football is when bottom sides are playing top sides in July (but I will never bet against the Swans). I have done very nicely backing the bottom sides at big odds.

The reason is that in July sides that are approaching finals have a 2-3 week heavy training block. I don't know if that was the reason for that horrible defeat that day but certainly we looked like world beaters in the first quarter then had nothing left after that.

Either way, a single defeat to a bottom side in July doesn't spell any red lights for me. We lost a game.

I think the final against GWS is a greater measurement. And I just think we looked like a side that was cooked. Same as against Geelong the previous year.

I think Connelly's main point was about Stewie knowing our game plan and executing a style that obliterated it. This happened with a side that couldn't beat Croydon Thirds for most of the year. They were woeful up until then. We tapered off? no. We kept doing the same things all day and it is a wonder we didn't get well and truly flogged. The next week we did. A 43 point flogging at the hands of a side I consider the most overrated in the AFL. Mind you I think the Essendon brains trust had looked at the Suns game and used the same tactics to exploit us. Too many slow players who got exposed on the rebound in both games. Still playing the same set ups that no longer work effectively in the midfield. we were crucified in the clearances in both games. Yes a side can go into a loll in the mid season but we were not exactly running on all cylinders to start with.

I think we were very ordinary last season and if we continue to play the style of footy we are we will be worse this season. We were lucky to win some pretty close games. We lost the clearances in most matches. We spent more time in our defensive 50 than any of the top eight and certainly more than most teams. This was pointed out in more than one analysis on many and varied footy forums and TV shows. We need to change that quickly as sooner or later our poor defence is going to start bleeding scores. The other problem we have is that we have drafted certain types of players but we still have a game plan for another, slower, more in and under type. We are not tweaking the tactics and GP to fit the players we have and to make the most of their talents. This needs to happen now or drafting them will have been a waste of time.