Analysis 2019 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

[Wolftone]

The drafting out of Hanners and Grohan, two previously inked in players, showed an inclination to look at current form and not history or perennial potential. Hopefully Horse and the selectors learnt a little and will apply this in 2019.

In actual fact the decision to offer them both an out came from footy department head Tom Harley. The rumour is horse did not even know about Hannas being offered a trade. Hannas was shocked too apparently. Rohan was a case of probably be better closer to home but was happy to stay as well. But the form of both players and the style of player we have been drafting shows that maybe they were not a part of the long term plan.

 

[caesar88]

Its worse than reflex coaching. Longmire is an instruction coach and game micro manager. The best coaching for the new rules are systems coaches where the players are TRUSTED and given the freedom to use their initiative, football intelligence, skill and yes heaven forbid - speed. Such a way out concept of speed on the game. Heaven forbid that Franklin, Allir, Florent, Mills and Heeney were even given the freedom to play their natural game. Longmire is still coaching ten years ago when we had not the most skillful lists and played a very defensive style. Do we reckon Longmire is going to trust his players to play to an attacking system and take their own initiative. Well do we?

I think Connelly's main point was about Stewie knowing our game plan and executing a style that obliterated it. This happened with a side that couldn't beat Croydon Thirds for most of the year. They were woeful up until then. We tapered off? no. We kept doing the same things all day and it is a wonder we didn't get well and truly flogged. The next week we did. A 43 point flogging at the hands of a side I consider the most overrated in the AFL. Mind you I think the Essendon brains trust had looked at the Suns game and used the same tactics to exploit us. Too many slow players who got exposed on the rebound in both games. Still playing the same set ups that no longer work effectively in the midfield. we were crucified in the clearances in both games. Yes a side can go into a loll in the mid season but we were not exactly running on all cylinders to start with.

I think we were very ordinary last season and if we continue to play the style of footy we are we will be worse this season. We were lucky to win some pretty close games. We lost the clearances in most matches. We spent more time in our defensive 50 than any of the top eight and certainly more than most teams. This was pointed out in more than one analysis on many and varied footy forums and TV shows. We need to change that quickly as sooner or later our poor defence is going to start bleeding scores. The other problem we have is that we have drafted certain types of players but we still have a game plan for another, slower, more in and under type. We are not tweaking the tactics and GP to fit the players we have and to make the most of their talents. This needs to happen now or drafting them will have been a waste of time.

Both nailed it and what I’ve been saying all along. At some point Horse is going to have to loosen the shackles and trust his players more. Yes it’s risky, and no it won’t always go well. But playing in a way that allows your players to shine will lead to a greater player buy-in, and our game plan will be far more relentless and consistently-applied. This year the way we played it was as if we had a bunch of big-bodied workhorses who loved stoppages and defensive pressure and relished playing in slogs. And then Horse sits back and wonders why lighter-bodied fleet-footed types like Florent, Cunningham, Lloyd, Ronke, Hayward, Jones etc couldn’t carry it out consistently for four quarters. And I don’t buy that excuse that our players aren’t skilful enough or capable enough to use their pace to open games up.

This year Richmond were relentless with their desire to move the ball forward quickly and no matter how. What the highlights show is them kicking goals from this, amassing big scores from this, and getting repeat entries inside their forward 50 from this, and ultimately winning a whole lot of games from this. What the highlights don’t show is how often they turned the ball over from this style of play, how often it didn’t go to plan, how often they didn’t pull it off. Because their players are no more elite or talented than ours. They were just playing under a system they believed in, and so they didn’t back away as soon as their style of play was challenged or stopped working. They didn’t compromise, they instead continued with it, backed themselves and that style of play to work enough times to get the win. And they got that win 19 times this season.

Horse must get our boys thinking and playing like this, and he can start by looking in the mirror and realising the change that needs to happen

 

[Wolftone]

View attachment 592431

according to that we should be a bottom 4 side. Some have huge downside on one side of the ledger but we are one of only four sides to be in the negative in both stats.

 

[Wolftone]

We may have to agree to disagree here because I think it was the total opposite of complacency. I think it was panic and over-reaction as soon as we faced a bit of a challenge from the Suns. But we completely abandoned everything that got us 5 goals in front all because the 17th-placed team was having a bit of momentum. It may have seemed like there was a malaise over our boys, but the rug was pulled from under them at half time by their own coach. A group that young was always going to be lost. That second quarter was an arm-wrestle, two teams trying different strategies, the Suns getting a bit of momentum but nothing too crazy. If we kept playing attacking, we may have only needed a few more goals and it may have broken the Suns. Instead it was just ABORT MISSION, THE SUNS ARE COMING!

Doesn't it say something that the coach of the 17th-placed team that was 5 goals down backed their game plan in across the four quarters more than the coach who was 5 goals up with a more talented side?

I agree. When we got to the stage of having franklin virtually playing CHB then we are defensive. In the last three quarters that is exactly where he was for the most part. We had absolutely no forward set up at all. It was sad. Not only that, our intensity was down because the players DID NOT trust the game plan he adopted when he panicked

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Grohan v McVeigh makes an interesting contrast.

Grohan is fast, can jump, take a mark but lacks temperament and is void of game sense

McVeigh is slow, cannot mark but has footy IQ, actually gets the ball and uses it well.

There is no question who I'd want in my 22.

The Club agreed extending the contract of the latter and dumping the salary of the former.

With luck we'll get 14 games from Macca, 10 of which will be more than useful. He will continue to help with direction on the field and development of the kids.

 

[Wolftone]

Sorry but that statement is just plain wrong, we went 8 - 3 against top 8 sides last year so the game plan was clearly better than "just good enough to knock off middle of the road teams".
Our biggest issue last year was we were crap at home, purely and simply, why? I don't know, but please don't re-write history to try and make your point.

We went 8-4 you forgot about the final. But sometimes talent just gets you through. The game plan was not good. At least when we reverted to the defensive game plan it wasn't. In the first half of the season we were playing teams that ended up in the top eight that mostly had injury worries. GWS was decimated until the finals. Hawks had half a side out. Eagles had many players missing and a totally re-jigged midfield. Cats got lots of injuries the day we played them and had a few out. We also had players out, Reid and Naismith in particular before Mills did something stupid and spent the rest of the season on the side. We won a lot of games by close margins. some heroics got us through as well as as a superstar.

If we are to be a contender we have to win clearances, play aggressively and that means attack, pile the pressure on and be steady under pressure.

 

[TheMase]

And then Horse sits back and wonders why lighter-bodied fleet-footed types like Florent, Cunningham, Lloyd, Ronke, Hayward, Jones etc couldn’t carry it out consistently for four quarters. And I don’t buy that excuse that our players aren’t skilful enough or capable enough to use their pace to open games up.

I doubt he sits back and wonders why 2x second year 19/20 year olds and a first year (seniors) 20 year old can’t do it over four quarters.

A GWS academy coach once told me that it can take anywhere from 3-5 AFL preseasons before kids get the requisite fitness level and experience to be able to play four consistent quarters (obviously there are are a few exceptions).


Add in at the start of the season Cunningham would have been right on the edge of selection from peoples views around here, so you can also eliminate him from being an integral part of the gameplan at the start of 2018.

I agree as the list evolves so does the gameplan. The timing of that change is fraught with danger. If it had been the start of 2018, imo we would have had a much worse season and could have impacted the confidence of some of the kids, perhaps affecting their development if they were not able to deliver the expectations and emphasis the strategies placed on them.

Maybe 2019 is the right time (at least some of the way), and I agree with the group of players we have drafted in recent times that new stuff strategies will need to evolve. But it’s another leap to criticise the coaches for this year imo (specifically re changing the gameplan in favour of the kids), because I don’t personally think 2018 was the right year for a big transition to occur. Injuries also influenced the coaches and the way we set up. Went more defensive into protection mode as they didn’t have confidence in being able to carry out four quarters.

Lastly we recruited and moved on a lot of coaches last season. A heap of new coaches joined at a time the general strategies would have been in place. A year behind them, Johnson and Cox in particular will have more influence imo. Skills look like they have started earlier too.

I am expecting a slightly different look next year, and my team I posted a couple of weeks ago reflected that.

 

[Punts]

IMO I highly doubt Horse will change , it is what it is with him.

He is as defensive as they come , stops the bleeding so the scoreboard flatters him and doesn’t get out of control.

We have always been very predictable but it’s glaring now.

It’s very unwatchable footy

 

[Wolfgang West]

Opinion

Yep and that's mine. Do you need me to be anymore clearer ?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I doubt he sits back and wonders why 2x second year 19/20 year olds and a first year (seniors) 20 year old can’t do it over four quarters.

A GWS academy coach once told me that it can take anywhere from 3-5 AFL preseasons before kids get the requisite fitness level and experience to be able to play four consistent quarters (obviously there are are a few exceptions).


Add in at the start of the season Cunningham would have been right on the edge of selection from peoples views around here, so you can also eliminate him from being an integral part of the gameplan at the start of 2018.

I agree as the list evolves so does the gameplan. The timing of that change is fraught with danger. If it had been the start of 2018, imo we would have had a much worse season and could have impacted the confidence of some of the kids, perhaps affecting their development if they were not able to deliver the expectations and emphasis the strategies placed on them.

Maybe 2019 is the right time (at least some of the way), and I agree with the group of players we have drafted in recent times that new stuff strategies will need to evolve. But it’s another leap to criticise the coaches for this year imo (specifically re changing the gameplan in favour of the kids), because I don’t personally think 2018 was the right year for a big transition to occur. Injuries also influenced the coaches and the way we set up. Went more defensive into protection mode as they didn’t have confidence in being able to carry out four quarters.

Lastly we recruited and moved on a lot of coaches last season. A heap of new coaches joined at a time the general strategies would have been in place. A year behind them, Johnson and Cox in particular will have more influence imo. Skills look like they have started earlier too.

I am expecting a slightly different look next year, and my team I posted a couple of weeks ago reflected that.

What an admirable post.

 

[Wolfgang West]

"The lack of ability to keep the foot on the throat and put teams away kills us and keeps the opposition in the game on most occasions right until the end."



Wolfie, I'm simply saying that a team "not keeping their foot on the throat" may not be entirely at the discretion of the coach.

BTW. I don't think it's helpful to declare that any person who holds an "opinion" that differs from your "opinion" in support of another "opinion" must have "no clue whatsoever"

ps. I'm 100% right and anyone who disagrees with me is a complete moron (Do you see how "Donald Trump" that sounds ?)

Sorry if a tongue in cheek type comment offends you Bungee. Regardless it is a glaring weakness and one that has cost us games and will continue to if it is not rectified. For what it is worth I don't consider it to be the complete fault of Longmire either. This current team has a terrible habit of dropping intensity around the contest when seemingly well in control and gifting momentum over to the opposition. Getting it back is all the more difficult the way the game is played now. I don't like the game style we play at times but I am not stupid enough to suggest when we are playing quite attacking footy and leading by 4+goals Longmire sends out the runner and tells them to pull the shutters down either.

 

[connolly]

Grohan v McVeigh makes an interesting contrast.

Grohan is fast, can jump, take a mark but lacks temperament and is void of game sense

McVeigh is slow, cannot mark but has footy IQ, actually gets the ball and uses it well.

There is no question who I'd want in my 22.

The Club agreed extending the contract of the latter and dumping the salary of the former.

With luck we'll get 14 games from Macca, 10 of which will be more than useful. He will continue to help with direction on the field and development of the kids.

This comparison might have been a genuine equivalence if Rohan had been consistently played as an attacking half back flanker his real position. Longmire played him mainly as a defensive forward. I really hope Rohan gets a fair go with injuries and team selection and shows us how good he could have been in the red and white.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

This comparison might have been a genuine equivalence if Rohan had been consistently played as an attacking half back flanker his real position. Longmire played him mainly as a defensive forward. I really hope Rohan gets a fair go with injuries and team selection and shows us how good he could have been in the red and white.

...well yes, I wish him well too as I am sure most Bloods fans do, though I would have warmed to him more had he dropped a $200K or thereabouts off his salary and opted to stay.

While I wish him well I doubt that Scott will get more out of him than he delivered with us.

 

[The King!]

2020 looks a promising season

 

[MartinLifts130]

Hey guys apparently in 2018 Parker played 67% midfield 33% forward. In 2019, with Florent, Hayward, Papley, Menzel, Ronke all potentially in ur best 22, surely there's no need for Parker to spend that much time up forward right?

Or was playing Parker up forward fitness/injury based?

 

[caesar88]

I doubt he sits back and wonders why 2x second year 19/20 year olds and a first year (seniors) 20 year old can’t do it over four quarters.

A GWS academy coach once told me that it can take anywhere from 3-5 AFL preseasons before kids get the requisite fitness level and experience to be able to play four consistent quarters (obviously there are are a few exceptions).


Add in at the start of the season Cunningham would have been right on the edge of selection from peoples views around here, so you can also eliminate him from being an integral part of the gameplan at the start of 2018.

I agree as the list evolves so does the gameplan. The timing of that change is fraught with danger. If it had been the start of 2018, imo we would have had a much worse season and could have impacted the confidence of some of the kids, perhaps affecting their development if they were not able to deliver the expectations and emphasis the strategies placed on them.

Maybe 2019 is the right time (at least some of the way), and I agree with the group of players we have drafted in recent times that new stuff strategies will need to evolve. But it’s another leap to criticise the coaches for this year imo (specifically re changing the gameplan in favour of the kids), because I don’t personally think 2018 was the right year for a big transition to occur. Injuries also influenced the coaches and the way we set up. Went more defensive into protection mode as they didn’t have confidence in being able to carry out four quarters.

Lastly we recruited and moved on a lot of coaches last season. A heap of new coaches joined at a time the general strategies would have been in place. A year behind them, Johnson and Cox in particular will have more influence imo. Skills look like they have started earlier too.

I am expecting a slightly different look next year, and my team I posted a couple of weeks ago reflected that.

“Sitting back wondering” is an expression, not in such a literal sense. But he said on numerous occasions this year that the inability of the youngsters to perform consistently was a disadvantage. He’s basically suggesting that it’s only a matter of time before these kids become mature enough to become battle-hardened soldiers that can toil away like the JPKs and Hanneberys and Parkers and ROKs of the world used to. But to me that’s both a cop out on his behalf and unfair to those youngsters. It’s a cop out because in saying that, he’s not acknowledging that by slowing the game down consistently and turning it into a slog, he is literally making the games harder for the kids. And it’s unfair because they will never be like those warriors Horse has always coached; they’re not inside brutes, they’re not big-bodied and made to thrive at stoppages, and so to expect the same capacity from them is unreasonable, even once they are fully developed.

I also disagree that a poor 2018 season would have effected the confidence of our youngsters. To me, they looked most devoid of confidence in matches like the Essendon one, and the second half against the Suns. Matches where the proverbial rug was pulled from under them by a coaching staff (not just Horse) who didn’t show enough faith in what the players were doing, or what they could do. Too many times we went full militant in the shutting down of any kind of run or dare, and youngsters like Florent and Ronke and McCartin looked lost at sea as they were asked to play to a style of footy that did not suit them at all. I can’t imagine how that would be good for their confidence. They’re big boys. They can have a game in their hands and be trusted to win it on their talent. They’d relish that, and if it didn’t end well, it would be a learning block.

I can’t see how meandering through a season where we had no real direction or sign that we had a change in how we would play footy could give our youngsters confidence either. To me this feels like a wasted season in a sense. Yes we pumped senior games into some kids like McCartin, Ronke, continued with Florent, Hayward, Aliir. And yet they’re probably just as in the dark as we are as to what our brand of footy is, what it will look like in 2019 and beyond. I get your point that to go full on attacking mode this season would have been crazy, and completely thrown the boys for a loop. But there needed to be way more of the attacking than what there was. We basically finished the year worse off, more defensive, more cautious, more predictable and more sterile than we did coming into the season.

 

[caesar88]

Sorry if a tongue in cheek type comment offends you Bungee. Regardless it is a glaring weakness and one that has cost us games and will continue to if it is not rectified. For what it is worth I don't consider it to be the complete fault of Longmire either. This current team has a terrible habit of dropping intensity around the contest when seemingly well in control and gifting momentum over to the opposition. Getting it back is all the more difficult the way the game is played now. I don't like the game style we play at times but I am not stupid enough to suggest when we are playing quite attacking footy and leading by 4+goals Longmire sends out the runner and tells them to pull the shutters down either.

No but I think he does it once that lead looks even remotely threatened and the attacking footy faces even a slight challenge. He will back our boys to play four entire quarters of defensive footy, happy to let the whole game be a slog, even if it’s not working or opponents are working around it. Yet he will give up on attacking footy the moment it shows the potential to end badly. It’s a defensive mindset that has served us well over the years but will only get worse the more we try to inject highly fancied kids like Ling, Stoddart, Blakey etc.

 

[caesar88]

Hey guys apparently in 2018 Parker played 67% midfield 33% forward. In 2019, with Florent, Hayward, Papley, Menzel, Ronke all potentially in ur best 22, surely there's no need for Parker to spend that much time up forward right?

Or was playing Parker up forward fitness/injury based?

Truth be told he’s struggled to impact in the midfield the last two years. He’ll have a few games here and there where he’ll look like his 2016 self where he looked Martin-like every time he’d play in the middle. But that’s not the case the majority of the time. I think he’s flexible enough and intelligent enough as a player to know his limitations. He’ll never be that consistently dominant midfielder like JPK, so for him to be a permanent mid would almost be a waste of his other assets, like his marking and his goal sense. For a scrappy bull of a midfielder, he becomes a classy player around goals as a forward. So I’ve personally given up on the tease of Parker becoming a midfield sensation like Fyfe, Martin etc and am perfectly content with this happy medium he’s found where he can only average about 25 touches a game instead of 30+ but still kick 25+ goals in a season.

 

[bungwahl]

103 days to go..

 

[The Gong]

Truth be told he’s struggled to impact in the midfield the last two years. He’ll have a few games here and there where he’ll look like his 2016 self where he looked Martin-like every time he’d play in the middle. But that’s not the case the majority of the time. I think he’s flexible enough and intelligent enough as a player to know his limitations. He’ll never be that consistently dominant midfielder like JPK, so for him to be a permanent mid would almost be a waste of his other assets, like his marking and his goal sense. For a scrappy bull of a midfielder, he becomes a classy player around goals as a forward. So I’ve personally given up on the tease of Parker becoming a midfield sensation like Fyfe, Martin etc and am perfectly content with this happy medium he’s found where he can only average about 25 touches a game instead of 30+ but still kick 25+ goals in a season.

He won the Bob Skilton medal in 2017 and came 2nd in 2018 and you're not happy with his impact the past two seasons? He's one of our most crucial players. They played him forward more this year to support the younger forward line so he didn't play on the ball as much but him and JPK had to do a heap of heavy lifting when they were in the middle because the contribution of other veterans had dropped off dramatically. Sinclair for all his great work around the field wasn't tapping it down their throats either. You get them some help and keep them in the guts and see the difference. Our midfield as a unit struggled and that impacted the performance of both. Too much left to too few.

If you're sitting there expecting a Martin or a Fyfe then you're setting yourself up for disappointment but rest assured Parker is still a gun player.

 

[The King!]

He won the Bob Skilton medal in 2017 and came 2nd in 2018 and you're not happy with his impact the past two seasons? He's one of our most crucial players. They played him forward more this year to support the younger forward line so he didn't play on the ball as much but him and JPK had to do a heap of heavy lifting when they were in the middle because the contribution of other veterans had dropped off dramatically. Sinclair for all his great work around the field wasn't tapping it down their throats either. You get them some help and keep them in the guts and see the difference. Our midfield as a unit struggled and that impacted the performance of both. Too much left to too few.

If you're sitting there expecting a Martin or a Fyfe then you're setting yourself up for disappointment but rest assured Parker is still a gun player.

agree he is what he is, he isnt martin or fyfe, but is a gun for the club

just a shame we seem to pay guys like Jack, Parker etc as though they are Fyfe Martin or Dangerfield

 

[The Gong]

agree he is what he is, he isnt martin or fyfe, but is a gun for the club

just a shame we seem to pay guys like Jack, Parker etc as though they are Fyfe Martin or Dangerfield

I'm not sure we do pay them that much but a player like Parker would have major interest of the open market so you have to pay the right price to retain him. He's only just turned 26 and is a key player that we'll build a midfield around over the next 5 years. There's every chance he'll be a future captain of the club.

 

[The King!]

I'm not sure we do pay them that much but a player like Parker would have major interest of the open market so you have to pay the right price to retain him. He's only just turned 26 and is a key player that we'll build a midfield around over the next 5 years. There's every chance he'll be a future captain of the club.

I agree with all of that, but i think we have overpaid a few , maybe not Parker as much, I agree on his importance

I think from the last few years the biggest learn should be to be a tad more conservative with contracts, pay for what we expect them to do going forward

 

[MarkP]

I agree with all of that, but i think we have overpaid a few , maybe not Parker as much, I agree on his importance

I think from the last few years the biggest learn should be to be a tad more conservative with contracts, pay for what we expect them to do going forward

For me it has been the length the contract in response to free agency demands that has screwed us and others no doubt.

Some of these deals have been massive dollars for long periods of time.

If you screw up a big dollar contract for reasonable time frames then fine, you can live with that. These 5 year deal though - too many tea leaves need to be read right and everything fall your way to make them valid except in exceptional circumstances.

 

[The King!]

For me it has been the length the contract in response to free agency demands that has screwed us and others no doubt.

Some of these deals have been massive dollars for long periods of time.

If you screw up a big dollar contract for reasonable time frames then fine, you can live with that. These 5 year deal though - too many tea leaves need to be read right and everything fall your way to make them valid except in exceptional circumstances.

Yep this, and then you dump a Hannebery to get rid of a bad deal, mind you Stkildas deal with hannebery is more baffling