2020 AFL fixture released

[FreeTK]

AFL And NFL merged. The AFL was set up because the NFL owners didn't want to expand.

The English football clubs in the top division all resigned and created their new competition (the EPL) over dispute about (among other things) money.

Both of those were huge changes to the competitions that they played in. The NFL gained 10 franchises in 1970. The EPL was newly created with 22 football clubs.

To compare that to the argument FreeTK is trying to make which is "in 1990 the VFL changed its name to AFL" is pretty silly.

If you think that the only change was a name, you are being ignorant or disingenuous.

VFL before expansion was part time athletes playing on suburban grounds, where the absence of a salary cap meant rich clubs could just buy premierships. Victorian Football League was the strongest state league at the time, but was not inclusive of all the best footballers in the country.

Introduction of the draft (1986) and salary cap (1987) laid the grounds for expansion into a national competition and wider reach/television audience culminating in the change of title from VFL to AFL in 1990. The AFL in 1990 was a completely different beast to VFL pre 1986.

Seriously though, I really don't understand why fans are so caught up about their rinky dink VFL premierships being counted as being equal in prestige and value to AFL flags. One is professional athletes playing a national league. The other is amateurs playing in state comp.

 

[parano1a]

Honestly. The whole problem with Richmond/Collingwood getting 1 too many games at the MCG is Essendon. They should be playing at Marvel Stadium for Essendon games.

We shouldn't be blaming Richmond/Collingwood. We should be blaming Essendon.

Carlton/Collingwood/Essendon/Richmond will NEVER play each other in a Home & Away game at Marvel Stadium.

 

[pockets75]

Carlton/Collingwood/Essendon/Richmond will NEVER play each other in a Home & Away game at Marvel Stadium.

Is that from now on or have they never?

 

[parano1a]

Is that from now on or have they never?

Never have, never will.

 

[raymond35]

If you think that the only change was a name, you are being ignorant or disingenuous.

VFL before expansion was part time athletes playing on suburban grounds, where the absence of a salary cap meant rich clubs could just buy premierships. Victorian Football League was the strongest state league at the time, but was not inclusive of all the best footballers in the country.

Introduction of the draft (1986) and salary cap (1987) laid the grounds for expansion into a national competition and wider reach/television audience culminating in the change of title from VFL to AFL in 1990. The AFL in 1990 was a completely different beast to VFL pre 1986.

Seriously though, I really don't understand why fans are so caught up about their rinky dink VFL premierships being counted as being equal in prestige and value to AFL flags. One is professional athletes playing a national league. The other is amateurs playing in state comp.

Yeah, because the 1989 premiership was totally different to the 1990 one.

 

[FreeTK]

Yeah, because the 1989 premiership was totally different to the 1990 one.

I'd agree that period between 86-90 is less clear as the AFL was gradually introducing all the things I spoke about. If you think about all the rebranding from VFL to AFL as the point in which all those things were in place and the AFL had committed to the concept of a national comp (as opposed to just a 1-2 team expansion), 1990 is the right date.

But yeah, basically....

Before we came along the league was going bust and was a bunch of part time athletes running around suburban grounds of Melbourne.

Leave your thanks in comments below

 

[telsor]

I'd agree that period between 86-90 is less clear as the AFL was gradually introducing all the things I spoke about. If you think about all the rebranding from VFL to AFL as the point in which all those things were in place and the AFL had committed to the concept of a national comp (as opposed to just a 1-2 team expansion), 1990 is the right date.

But yeah, basically....

Before we came along the league was going bust and was a bunch of part time athletes running around suburban grounds of Melbourne.

Leave your thanks in comments below

Your one eyed self delusion in support of what you want to be true (as opposed to the facts) is truly astounding.

Bravo

 

[FreeTK]

Your one eyed self delusion in support of what you want to be true (as opposed to the facts) is truly astounding.

Bravo

Point out where I am wrong.

If Victorian clubs want to get their dicks out and jerk off with each other about how great they were back when it was a backyard competition, cool.

That doesn't mean that those accomplishments are on the same level as those in the AFL era or should be weighted equally.

 

[Lsta062]

Never have, never will.

They have, back when MCG was going through renovations in mid 2000s.

I think Richmond only played Carlton there though.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Imagine if the big Vic clubs were treated the same as the others. Instead of just talking about integrity they actually do something. Wow, that would be new and different.

The fat cats in the AFL were having difficulty sleeping and lying straight in bed. Mattress getting too lumpy from the bonuses they pay themselves by favoring the big Melbourne sides over all others.


Love how Tigers supporters refuse to admit how big an advantage their team gets from AFL fixturing. Almost as big as a COLA allowance that the Vics were whinging over and finally got removed.

So what's your solution? Do you endorse forcing Vic clubs to play home games in WA/SA/NSW/QLD so that every club leaves it's state an equal number of times? Or the great idea of having Vic teams board planes and fly around in circles for 5 hours before and after each game?

What's your solution?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Ummm, Australian Football League was established in 1990.

Wrong, the name was changed. League is a tad older than that

 

[Senor M]

want to get their dicks out and jerk off with each other about how great they were back when it was a backyard competition, cool.

FreeTK -- I really don't want to hear what you got up to with your friends over the weekend.

 

[Grin]

So what's your solution? Do you endorse forcing Vic clubs to play home games in WA/SA/NSW/QLD so that every club leaves it's state an equal number of times?

The problem with that is that interstate clubs would have even less opportunity to play at the G.
This could be rectified by having interstate clubs playing home games in Melbourne.

 

[FreeTK]

Wrong, the name was changed. League is a tad older than that

Pretty sure all the cup pre 1990 has “VFL premiers” written on them, and when the AFL talks about records achievements across the two era they use prefix VFL/AFL.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Pretty sure all the cup pre 1990 has “VFL premiers” written on them, and when the AFL talks about records achievements across the two era they use prefix VFL/AFL.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That's because of people like yourselves

The abn is identical for the vfl and AFL. That either means they are the same, or ASIC is in on the vicco conspiracy too?

Fun fact:
Contrails appear in every state except Victoria, and Victoria is the only state not to put fluoride in its water. Is it a coincidence that the CIA mind control methods are used everywhere except Victoria?!?!?

 

[Baird]

Pretty sure all the cup pre 1990 has “VFL premiers” written on them, and when the AFL talks about records achievements across the two era they use prefix VFL/AFL.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Were the Western Bulldogs founded in the 90s?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Were the Western Bulldogs founded in the 90s?

I think he might be Corey....

 

[L_W_P]

As far as I'm concerned only 1 club has a premiership - Richmond. Everything else is ancient history.

That said, If someone has done the work on who the lineal AFL champion is that would be sweeeet!

 

[FreeTK]

That's because of people like yourselves

The abn is identical for the vfl and AFL. That either means they are the same, or ASIC is in on the vicco conspiracy too?

Fun fact:
Contrails appear in every state except Victoria, and Victoria is the only state not to put fluoride in its water. Is it a coincidence that the CIA mind control methods are used everywhere except Victoria?!?!?

I wasn't referring to VFL/AFL as an entity, or even saying that the VFL/AFL are distinct leagues. What I was saying is that the name change is an expression of a series of changes to the competition in its repositioning to a national competition. Those changes are broad and wide ranging and we should make meaningful distinctions pre and post that line of dilineation.

For eg. If a club won the 1980 VFL premiership, we would know that the club in question

a) did not travel interstate
b) had no salary cap restrictions (i.e. could buy premierships)
c) had no national draft to recruit players and ensure equalisation
d) played in a segregated competitive environment where many great players were in opposing state leagues.

That is a very different competitive environment to any flag post 1990 (AFL Flag) which has all those requirements.

NB: Obviously the period between 87-90 is a grey area as many of the features I mentioned are present however the competition had not yet been outwardly marketed and positioned as a national competition.

Were the Western Bulldogs founded in the 90s?

No, because the Western Bulldogs are a Club.

For Eg: West Coast Eagles were established in 1986, entered the VFL in 1987 and have played in the AFL since 1990.


Why are some people so caught up by making distinction between VFL & AFL eras. It seems the logical thing to do in my mind.

IF you look at tennis, they had the amateur "invite only" era pre 1969 where you couldn't play if you were a professional. And they have the 1969 "Open Era" and the sport makes clear differences between the two when referring to events/stats/records pre and post 1969.

Understand now?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I wasn't referring to VFL/AFL as an entity, or even saying that the VFL/AFL are distinct leagues. What I was saying is that the name change is an expression of a series of changes to the competition in its repositioning to a national competition. Those changes are broad and wide ranging and we should make meaningful distinctions pre and post that line of dilineation.

For eg. If a club won the 1980 VFL premiership, we would know that the club in question

a) did not travel interstate
b) had no salary cap restrictions (i.e. could buy premierships)
c) had no national draft to recruit players and ensure equalisation
d) played in a segregated competitive environment where many great players were in opposing state leagues.

That is a very different competitive environment to any flag post 1990 (AFL Flag) which has all those requirements.

NB: Obviously the period between 87-90 is a grey area as many of the features I mentioned are present however the competition had not yet been outwardly marketed and positioned as a national competition.



No, because the Western Bulldogs are a Club.

For Eg: West Coast Eagles were established in 1986, entered the VFL in 1987 and have played in the AFL since 1990.


Why are some people so caught up in making a distinction between VFL & AFL eras. It seems the logical thing to do in my mind.

IF you look at tennis, they had the amateur "invite only" era pre 1969 where you couldn't play if you were a professional. And they have the 1969 "Open Era" and the sport makes clear differences between the two when referring to events/stats/records pre and post 1969.

Understand now?

In that case 1990 is the wrong date, as it wasn't an 18 team comp

Funny how you ignore that lil detail.....

 

[FreeTK]

In that case 1990 is the wrong date, as it wasn't an 18 team comp

Funny how you ignore that lil detail.....

The fact that there are more teams since 2012 than there was in 1990 doesn't change what I am saying. It is the features of the competition that changed, not how many teams are in the competition.

For instance in 2012, AFL still had 1) salary cap 2) national draft 3) Interstate travel 4) positioned as a national comp.

Those 4 things are all true any time post 1990, but only partly true, if at all true for period before 1990.

Get me?

 

[Senor M]

Why are some people so caught up by making distinction between VFL & AFL eras. It seems the logical thing to do in my mind.

IF you look at tennis, they had the amateur "invite only" era pre 1969 where you couldn't play if you were a professional. And they have the 1969 "Open Era" and the sport makes clear differences between the two when referring to events/stats/records pre and post 1969.

Understand now?

But the AFL as a competition counts the VFL/AFL as one history, not as two separate eras.

• Ian Stewart is still a 3x Brownlow Medal Winner; even though he won it in '65, '66 & '71.
• Has Tony Lockett kicked 1360 career goals or 895 career goals (goals kicked since the '90 season).

So despite as 'logical' as you think it is-- it goes against the established history that the AFL presents as a competition.
You are currently sprouting an alternative set of history to what the league itself states.

 

[Forward Press]

But the AFL as a competition counts the VFL/AFL as one history, not as two separate eras.

• Ian Stewart is still a 3x Brownlow Medal Winner; even though he won it in '65, '66 & '71.
• Has Tony Lockett kicked 1360 career goals or 895 career goals (goals kicked since the '90 season).

So despite as 'logical' as you think it is-- it goes against the established history that the AFL presents as a competition.
You are currently sprouting an alternative set of history to what the league itself states.

The AFL itself separates the VFL and AFL as I proved in the earlier post where there are numerous references on its website to 'VFL/AFL' when it comes to records, stats, history etc.

The correct way to state facts is something like 'Tony Lockett kicked 1360 goals in VFL/AFL games, the most of any player in VFL/AFL history'

 

[FreeTK]

But the AFL as a competition counts the VFL/AFL as one history, not as two separate eras.

• Ian Stewart is still a 3x Brownlow Medal Winner; even though he won it in '65, '66 & '71.
• Has Tony Lockett kicked 1360 career goals or 895 career goals (goals kicked since the '90 season).

So despite as 'logical' as you think it is-- it goes against the established history that the AFL presents as a competition.
You are currently sprouting an alternative set of history to what the league itself states.

I'm not saying that they are separate. I am also not saying that anything before 1990 should be deleted out of history.

I am saying that there are very distinct differences between the two eras and should make that very clear in the language we use to talk about the two periods in history.

 

[caveman72]

6 interstate trips.
A home game at Docklands.
Only 14 games at the G.
3 interstate trips in the last 6 rounds.

Looks like the AFL has been listening to all the sore looser whinging sooks from West Coast and Geelong and in the media.
Ahh well, at least the AFL hasn't brought in a raft of rule changes to "bring Richmond back to the field". Yet.

Imagine the outcry if the AFL discriminated against any other club the way it does against Richmond.

Cats had 3 in the 6 rounds last year with back to back interstate games and start next season with 3 in the first 6 rounds with 2 trips to WA.