Review 2020 Draft General Discussion

[Cadillac]

Mate, I follow the draft watchers here, and form my opinions on their opinions. My opinion isn’t worth squat.

I also look at the draft from a strong Lions draft needs perspective.

I also privately question the rankings of some players, and try and edge discussions around them, to get a better understanding of why they are ranked by certain watchers where they are.

I’ll give you two examples.

Just on the limited highlights I’ve watched, plus reports I read on games last year, I would have Finlay Macrae comfortably in my top 10. He played in a very strong Oakleigh team last year, and like a lot of their bottom age kids, played out of position.

He’s not a contested inside mid, nor is he tall, or athletic in terms of high jumping or rabbit fast, which I feel is a large reason why he’s rated behind a player like McInness.

But from the little I’ve watched, he’s the type of balanced mid Brisbane need. He can win his own ball, move through traffic similar to Pendlebury or McCluggage, is a good instinctive kick off both feet, and is very good a delivering the ball inside 50.

He would compliment and work off of the Lions young ball winners, and provide a foil for McCluggage.


Similarly I had questions about Eddie Ford. From the highlights I watched, he appeared a lazy player at times, looked to be carrying some puppy fat, was obviously gifted athletically, and I wondered if he had got as far as he had mostly because he was more gifted athletically than most kids his age, and hadn’t had to work as hard.

If you read enough draft watchers here, you’ll have read a couple who rave about some of his performances, especially his U18 trial match last year.

So I figured he’s the type of kid that can go one of two ways.

Put in some genuine work on his body and skills, rocket up draft boards, and potentially be the top kid from this draft in 7 years time.

Or continue to coast by on his natural ability, just do the required work at AFL level, and have a good, but not great career, at possibly two or three clubs.


Mostly I just like talking draft, and list management. And I like listening to a few different podcasts, so it’s rare I actually have a genuine insight myself, but rather repeat other people’s views or opinions.

who’s the one player you’d love to have that’s a realistic chance to get to your club? Is it Macrae? For me as a dogs fan. We will obviously get JUH. But I would love to add tough nut O’driscoll to the Bulldogs. I feel based off our last two games (GWS Final and Collingwood round 1) we are a pretty soft team. Our in those two games our hardest tackler has been Bailey Smith. I’d love to see those two play together.

 

[briztoon]

who’s the one player you’d love to have that’s a realistic chance to get to your club? Is it Macrae? For me as a dogs fan. We will obviously get JUH. But I would love to add tough nut O’driscoll to the Bulldogs. I feel based off our last two games (GWS Final and Collingwood round 1) we are a pretty soft team. Our in those two games our hardest tackler has been Bailey Smith. I’d love to see those two play together.

That would give you guys a lot of quality inside midfielders.

I picked Archie Perkins in the recent phantom draft on here. I hope his ceiling is similar to that of Zorko, albeit a much taller version.

I go back and forth on who I’d like at our first pick. Currently one of Finlay Macrae, Archie Perkins or Eddie Ford.

I’d like a player who could potentially win a game off their own boot. Or a foil for McCluggage, two classy ball users delivering quality ball in to the forward 50.

But if Ford and/or Perkins show that consistently this year if we get some football, they probably go early.

 

[andleanback]

That would give you guys a lot of quality inside midfielders.

I picked Archie Perkins in the recent phantom draft on here. I hope his ceiling is similar to that of Zorko, albeit a much taller version.

I go back and forth on who I’d like at our first pick. Currently one of Finlay Macrae, Archie Perkins or Eddie Ford.

I’d like a player who could potentially win a game off their own boot. Or a foil for McCluggage, two classy ball users delivering quality ball in to the forward 50.

But if Ford and/or Perkins show that consistently this year if we get some football, they probably go early.

I think Macrae would suit lions perfectly, he'd be ready to take over from robinson when he's done in a couple of years.

 

[Davo-27]

eDPS, TheSmythe, Davo-27, andleanback, and PMBangers, and any of the other draft watchers I may have missed;

Who are the potential match winners in this years draft crop?

Or players who can rip a game apart in one quarter?

The potential Matt Rowell’s, Dustin Martin’s, Lance Franklin’s of this years draft crop.

Kids who have done it already at U16’s or school footy.

Or kids who show the skill sets required, but haven’t put it all together yet, but might at AFL level, if they reach their potential.

from what i have seen theres different types of match winners in this draft pool

1. Will Phillips, stands out as the closest comparison to Sam Walsh and Matthew Rowell, the type of mids you can build a team around, consistently good, in his games he has seemed a level above his opponents at times
2. Elijah Hollands, Archie Perkins and Eddie Ford are similar types, amazing marking ability and good energy in the forward line
3. Jamarra Ugle-Hagan stands alone as the best and most consistent tall forward looking like a young Buddy and playing like Josh Kennedy(WCE)
4. Nathan O'Driscoll is a big bodied mid who shows some good traits
5. DGB has good intercept marking ability, which can be game saving or winning
6. Tanner Bruhn is a goal kicking mid, a lot of talent, injury has meant theres been limited vision of him last year
7. Jack Ginnivan is the most clever and dangerous goal kicking forward i have seen in this bunch of players.
8. Kaine Baldwin could be good, but i need to see more of him, i dont know if he dominates because of size or if he really is good, is a lead, mark, kick type, a better Levi Casboult is my first instinct, what he can produce, im not sure, could be good???
9. Errol Gulden i have seen get 36 disposals and kick 2 goals, i have seen him be a part of a struggling Allies team and he, Ace(GCS Paul-Oea) and Rosas somehow combine to bring to life the Allies, i rate him highly, Breaden Campbell has a sweet left foot on him and can regularly kick goals, which as an outside player is important, the swans have a good pair of players, im unique(i think) in that i rate Gulden ahead of Campbell.
10. i dont know if they are game changers, but i really like Luke Edwards, Jackson Callow and Oliver Henry, Edwards is a tall hbf who is clever and tough and reminds me of the type of half backs the Hawks like, Grant Birchall/Jack Scrimshaw, Callow is a bit shorter than your modern KPF, but his hands are vice like, and he moves around the ground very fluidly and with good agility/flexibility, has strong wide shoulders too, also can kick bags of goals, Henry is a bit like his brother at Geelong, good in the air back or forward and showed some potential in an ordinary Geelong outfit in 2019

Thilthorpe and Trew i have not seen much of so its harder to make a call on them, McInness is top quality player and Nik Cox has so much raw potential too, to round out the top 20 maybe Oliver Davis from Tassie being one of the best in and under mids in 2020.

 

[briztoon]

from what i have seen theres different types of match winners in this draft pool

1. Will Phillips, stands out as the closest comparison to Sam Walsh and Matthew Rowell, the type of mids you can build a team around, consistently good, in his games he has seemed a level above his opponents at times
2. Elijah Hollands, Archie Perkins and Eddie Ford are similar types, amazing marking ability and good energy in the forward line
3. Jamarra Ugle-Hagan stands alone as the best and most consistent tall forward looking like a young Buddy and playing like Josh Kennedy(WCE)
4. Nathan O'Driscoll is a big bodied mid who shows some good traits
5. DGB has good intercept marking ability, which can be game saving or winning
6. Tanner Bruhn is a goal kicking mid, a lot of talent, injury has meant theres been limited vision of him last year
7. Jack Ginnivan is the most clever and dangerous goal kicking forward i have seen in this bunch of players.
8. Kaine Baldwin could be good, but i need to see more of him, i dont know if he dominates because of size or if he really is good, is a lead, mark, kick type, a better Levi Casboult is my first instinct, what he can produce, im not sure, could be good???
9. Errol Gulden i have seen get 36 disposals and kick 2 goals, i have seen him be a part of a struggling Allies team and he, Ace(GCS Paul-Oea) and Rosas somehow combine to bring to life the Allies, i rate him highly, Breaden Campbell has a sweet left foot on him and can regularly kick goals, which as an outside player is important, the swans have a good pair of players, im unique(i think) in that i rate Gulden ahead of Campbell.
10. i dont know if they are game changers, but i really like Luke Edwards, Jackson Callow and Oliver Henry, Edwards is a tall hbf who is clever and tough and reminds me of the type of half backs the Hawks like, Grant Birchall/Jack Scrimshaw, Callow is a bit shorter than your modern KPF, but his hands are vice like, and he moves around the ground very fluidly and with good agility/flexibility, has strong wide shoulders too, also can kick bags of goals, Henry is a bit like his brother at Geelong, good in the air back or forward and showed some potential in an ordinary Geelong outfit in 2019

Thilthorpe and Trew i have not seen much of so its harder to make a call on them, McInness is top quality player and Nik Cox has so much raw potential too, to round out the top 20 maybe Oliver Davis from Tassie being one of the best in and under mids in 2020.

I’ve been wanting to ask this question.

Who do you rate higher, Oliver Davis or Deven Robertson?

 

[Davo-27]

I’ve been wanting to ask this question.

Who do you rate higher, Oliver Davis or Deven Robertson?

i rated Deven Robertson as a player inside my top 14 last year along with Will Gould i was surprised so many let them slide, i think Deven Robertson is a better player than Oliver Davis.

 

[Cadillac]

I think Breaden Campbell could be getting a little overhyped on the phantom draft threads based on his performance in the under 17s game on grand final day. In an interview with Cal Twomey he openly said it was the best game he’s ever played. And even admitted that Erol Ghulden has got the better of him in every matchup they’ve had over the years.

 

[eDPS]

I think Breaden Campbell could be getting a little overhyped on the phantom draft threads based on his performance in the under 17s game on grand final day. In an interview with Cal Twomey he openly said it was the best game he’s ever played. And even admitted that Erol Ghulden has got the better of him in every matchup they’ve had over the years.

Nah he is just being modest I’ve seen plenty of games they have both played together and Campbell has been better

 

[Davo-27]

I think Breaden Campbell could be getting a little overhyped on the phantom draft threads based on his performance in the under 17s game on grand final day. In an interview with Cal Twomey he openly said it was the best game he’s ever played. And even admitted that Erol Ghulden has got the better of him in every matchup they’ve had over the years.

I agree with Breadens own thoughts, but they are different players, Braeden is the hbf/wing so has good athleticism, should have better kicking skills with space and has a nice goal kicking technique, Gulden is an inside mid who is tougher, wins contest against opponents and also can kick goals and play small forw, he can also average good numbers in poss, so it is a bit like comparing apples to oranges in a way. Do you rate athleticism over football ability? Or vice versa?

 

[PMBangers]

Do you rate athleticism over football ability?

Are you saying Braeden doesn't have football ability? One of the better kicks and composed players in the pool I'd say

 

[eDPS]

The one thing Gulden has over Campbell right now is endurance, Campbell has him covered for every other area imo

 

[weltschmerz]

Do you rate athleticism over football ability? Or vice versa?

Brings to mind Will Gould from last year.

 

[Smythe]

Interesting take, and i love hearing others opinions, that is what makes this caper interesting. I differ to your thoughts a bit and it is just my opinion. Campbell has much better football ability and a higher football IQ, Gulden may have a bit more grunt in the middle and better "around the goal face nous" but Campbell has him in every other area. I have seen them match up in the fwd pocket (Campbell was defending), only for a little bit of one game, maybe 2 or 3 plays, and Campbell could not directly defend Guldens crafty fwd pocket skills, but then again, it was a trial and error to see what Campbell could do on a small forward. I would say that is the only area Gulden has it over Campbell, and its clearly not Campbell's forte, back pocket.
What i do like about Gulden is his grunt, small man syndrome possibly, but that is why he will do OK at the next level and should be rated higher but, because of his size some people do not rate him as high as he should be. Out of the two though, IMO Campbell is much better all round player with a higher cieling and better all round skill set that can translate to the higher league.
Gulden may, but im not so sure he will (at his size) have any effect on the middle of the ground against the bigger bodies at AFL level therefore taking away one of his better strengths, therefore thrusting him into a fwd pocket position where he may thrive.
If we were to look at STATS only in the U18 level you would say Gulden is better, but its not just stats that gets you ranked.
When it comes to ROLES at the higher level (not saying they will turn out like these players, congrats to Sydney if they do) I see Gulden as a Stephen Milne/Brent Harvey type player, occasional appearance in the center but more forward type, and Campbell as a Dayne Zorko/Lachie Neale type player, less forward and more mid using his clean skills into the f50 and occasional fwd play to kick some goals.
Good luck to all the other clubs if Sydney do get both kids and they do turn out like those aforementioned players.

 

[briztoon]

We had our head recruiter, Steph Conole on our club podcast a couple of weeks ago.

One thing Steph mentioned was that he has about 30 names on his list that might be in the first round mix.

I had two thoughts when he mentioned this.

First, has potentially similar depth to last years draft, it just might lack those couple of high end talents.

Secondly, like last year, we might see teams drafting for need from early in the first round, so there’s the potential for a lot of trading again, both before and during the draft.

 

[andleanback]

I agree with Breadens own thoughts, but they are different players, Braeden is the hbf/wing so has good athleticism, should have better kicking skills with space and has a nice goal kicking technique, Gulden is an inside mid who is tougher, wins contest against opponents and also can kick goals and play small forw, he can also average good numbers in poss, so it is a bit like comparing apples to oranges in a way. Do you rate athleticism over football ability? Or vice versa?

That’s the problem Gulden will face though, one of his strengths currently is inside mid. He won’t be played on ball when he comes into the system so you it complete diminishes him as a player. It’s why you see those kids 175cm< who dominate playing on ball in u18s not get drafted. I thought mellis was a bit stiff last year but he’s one who’ll need to learn how to play a as a small forward for him to get picked up. Now Gulden has way more strings to his bow than him, but not being able to play inside mid is definitely going to take away from his game.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Surely another team gets Gulden simply due to his surname sounding like Gould.

 

[PMBangers]

Surely another team gets Gulden simply due to his surname sounding like Gould.

It's only fair he doesnt have to leave NSW though, we'll bite the bullet

 

[weltschmerz]

Surely another team gets Gulden simply due to his surname sounding like Gould.

Incidentally, if the Dogs had taken Gould instead of Weightman at 15, I wouldn't have been disappointed.

 

[eDPS]

The WAFL is starting up again in early august, not sure if the colts will happen but either way expect the likes of Trew and DGB to push for senior selection.

 

[briztoon]

The WAFL is starting up again in early august, not sure if the colts will happen but either way expect the likes of Trew and DGB to push for senior selection.

O’Driscoll, Chapman and McDonald as well I hope.

Is the SANFL still going ahead?

 

[eDPS]

O’Driscoll, Chapman and McDonald as well I hope.

Is the SANFL still going ahead?

Those 3 are less likely from what I’ve heard
I’d say a good chance

 

[briztoon]

Those 3 are less likely from what I’ve heard
I’d say a good chance

Because they play at stronger/deeper WAFL clubs?

 

[BigDance]

Any word on the U16 and U18 NAtional Champs? will either be going ahead in any capacity? I would imagine most states hadn't even got around to announcing an U16 squad?

 

[andleanback]

Any word on the U16 and U18 NAtional Champs? will either be going ahead in any capacity? I would imagine most states hadn't even got around to announcing an U16 squad?

Looks like they might try and do something late September early October for u18s, most likely round robin or something.

 

[RUNVS]

I hope Gulden's height won't hurt his chances at an AFL career as he is about that height where it is very rare for players to make it. Ideally he will grow 5cm between 2019 and the end of 2020.