Training 2020 Pre-Season

[aussierulesrules]

Great to see that Hanna Berry did about 60% of the match sim and has trimmed down and that Carlisle seems to be going really well.

I think some forget just how much Carlisle makes us a better team when he's up and about, and if we even just got the 2019 version of Hanners for 15+ games, instead of 5, we'd be a lot better for it.

If we happen to get him for closer to 20, at an even better level than he was playing at last year (entirely possible, if he has a relatively clear run at it from here) then it would be a massive help, and finals could be far from out of the question.

If we happen to have Hannas, Hill, Seb, Steele, Jones, Clark and maybe Dunstan all playing and going well it could absolutely afford us the luxury of playing Gresh and Billings forward more again, which immediately gives us much greater scoring power.

It may well be that most of Long, Parker, Sincs, Lonie, Hind, Kent and Butler are playing in the magoos, which would be pretty extraordinary!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Saints are a sub editors dream.

Saints "Battle" their way to a "Savage" victory.
Saints "Marshall" their forces.
Saints on top of the "Hill".

 

[plugger66]

Saints are a sub editors dream.

Saints "Battle" their way to a "Savage" victory.
Saints "Marshall" their forces.
Saints on top of the "Hill".

Billings in for a killing Hind kicks behinds. Saints make the opposition look like real Kent’s.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I agree about steele ross and dunstan not being a good fit to all play together.

Unfortunately I think if ratts really is looking to shake things up, unless he really kicks his game up another couple of gears- steele should be the one to make way.

Say what you will about ross and dunstan, but the fact is they hunt and find the ball very well and their disposal isn't diabolical.

With the likes of hill, billings and hanners on the outside (with elite passing skills)- surely the midfield spots need to go to guys who will win their own ball and lots of it, and it's no huge deal if their disposal isn't perfect?

Dunstan has always had excellent possie to time on ground ratio- and last year he seemingly finally was able to average over 70% TOG.
And ross as we know can rack up huge numbers- and Im sure plenty will argue that ross is a receiver, but i think like say tom mitchell or pre injury scully- he's a victim of him own hard work and football nous.

He finds space and gets lots of ball because he creates space and possies for himself by reading the play and putting himself in the right spots.

I think the centre mix needs to be all guys that can get plenty of the ball in traffic and farm it out to the outside guys, and unfortunately at this stage I don't think steele has shown enough ability to be in the right spots (without shadowing guys that do find the right spots).

So my centre square would be clark, ross and dunstan initially- steele at sandy (hopefully banging down the door)

Hanners surely starts in the midfield as an inside/outside fully capable of finding his own ball ahead of a player who's never played midfieldat afl level... Otherwise I agree with everything, just not the conclusion.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Because it is like saying we dont have players to play in that position.

We have King, Ryder, Marshall and Battle to go forward. We have Membrey, we have, Lonie Long, Butler, Kent, Parker and Hind.

We have Billings and Hill on wings

So none of them can kick two goals a game? Lulz.

Well if they can, it would have been nice to see it.
Bruce wasn't stopping them.

And yes you are correct , anyone can play that position. Its a position.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I will continue to say this. You can have both.

Bruce is easily replaced.

 

[Ads734]

I don’t get letting Bruce go at all and come the halfway point of the season when Membrey is the only guy kicking goals I think people will start to realize how valuable he was to us. There’s no ready made replacement regardless of how much anyone tries to convince themselves that there is, so now instead of 35+ goals every year we have a bunch of hypotheticals.

The guys we brought in were mostly good decisions but letting Bruce go was a poor one. It was too early.

Couldn't agree more and then you realise we traded him and got in Zac Jones who yes while he may have potential is another Half back from which we are well stocked for. I also don't buy the justification for not resigning Bruce in him taking opportunity away from King. Last year for one at no point did Bruce keep King from getting games in addition all hed be doing is taking the best defender away from King and taking some pressure off whilst providing some more scoring power.

 

[Saintsydney]

Great to see that Hanna Berry did about 60% of the match sim and has trimmed down and that Carlisle seems to be going really well.

I think some forget just how much Carlisle makes us a better team when he's up and about, and if we even just got the 2019 version of Hanners for 15+ games, instead of 5, we'd be a lot better for it.

If we happen to get him for closer to 20, at an even better level than he was playing at last year (entirely possible, if he has a relatively clear run at it from here) then it would be a massive help, and finals could be far from out of the question.

If we happen to have Hannas, Hill, Seb, Steele, Jones, Clark and maybe Dunstan all playing and going well it could absolutely afford us the luxury of playing Gresh and Billings forward more again, which immediately gives us much greater scoring power.

It may well be that most of Long, Parker, Sincs, Lonie, Hind, Kent and Butler are playing in the magoos, which would be pretty extraordinary!

I think Long is one of the guys doing a Marshall style improvement this year ( maybe not to the same extreme as Marshall but one can hope!)

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Howard deciding to take the piss in match sim.

 

[plugger66]

Couldn't agree more and then you realise we traded him and got in Zac Jones who yes while he may have potential is another Half back from which we are well stocked for. I also don't buy the justification for not resigning Bruce in him taking opportunity away from King. Last year for one at no point did Bruce keep King from getting games in addition all hed be doing is taking the best defender away from King and taking some pressure off whilst providing some more scoring power.

I think the issue is wanting to play 2 rucks. Leaves no spot for Bruce. I don’t believe it is king that meant he had to go

 

[Crusty Undies]

Wait... champion data rates North’s list as 6th best in the AFL?

What am I missing?

I thought the exact same thing tbh. I really don't see how they're any better than us let alone the other teams apparently ahead of us. Even more surprising is the bulldogs 13 position jump almost exclusively due to Bruce and Keath joining yet we stay almost the same after bringing in 5 best 22 players in trades and a backup ruck...

 

[jwikked]

Bruce will kick 50 goals this year. The way the Doglets use the ball is a dream come true for him.

doesn’t matter who we use to replace him, if our ball use hasn’t improved on the last few years, everyone in the forward line will look as disposable as Bruce was.

 

[Ads734]

I think the issue is wanting to play 2 rucks. Leaves no spot for Bruce. I don’t believe it is king that meant he had to go

Hmm its an interesting issue because whilst you might bolster your ruck immediately, we get robbed of scoring.

 

[plugger66]

I thought the exact same thing tbh. I really don't see how they're any better than us let alone the other teams apparently ahead of us. Even more surprising is the bulldogs 13 position jump almost exclusively due to Bruce and Keath joining yet we stay almost the same after bringing in 5 best 22 players in trades and a backup ruck...

It’s all based on stats. It has nothing to do with how a person feels. Wb would have jumped because they actually did jump last year so I gather the stats went up

 

[Mowman]

I dare say, if you can’t kick you won’t play very much which is very different to Richo. But overall the coaching group believe if we tidy up our movement and improve delivery and execution. It will get us into the 8.

Will need a new Captain then

 

[Crusty Undies]

No u turns obviously not a team rule

It's a rule for everyone except Hill.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Would have thought Jones is more than "just another half back", Ads.

Has proven that he can play to a similar level on the wing, and in some of his inside games last year, he was having the sort of games that Dunstan has at his very best (ie 31/32 disposals, 13/14 CP's and 7 clearances).

We play Dunstan there all year, even though he only has those games occasionally, so if Jones could have a couple like that within a few weeks of being given a consistent go in there, there's possibly no reason we couldn't just play him there instead of Luke, if we really wanted to. You'd think he'd improve with more experience there, too.

Sounds like he's also spending time forward.

Then of course there's his speed. I think it's pretty clear that we want to be a quicker team, so that means you need to bring in guys with that attribute.

 

[Crusty Undies]

If that's the case, Geary, Brown, Savage, McKenzie and Ross must be nervous as hell. Imagine a year of actually hitting targets coming out of the back half!

Ross and Savage in the same conversation as the other 3? Seriously?

 

[SufferingS8INT]

Howard deciding to take the piss in match sim.

Holy **** His knee was on ryders shoulder!!!

 

[coachnoodles]

I will continue to say this. You can have both.

Whilst I get where you are coming from how can you have both if the cap space freed up and picks acquired by moving out Bruce Acres and Steven allowed us to bring in the players that help Ratts & co implement the improved game plan. Generally most coaches will build a game plan that suits their list to some extent. I don't think what the coaching staff wants to do (based on what i've seen and heard on hear and in the media) would be possible with out some added pace and skill and to get that we had to give something up.

 

[Ads734]

Would have thought Jones is more than "just another half back", Ads.

Has proven that he can play to a similar level on the wing, and in some of his inside games last year, he was having the sort of games that Dunstan has at his very best (ie 31/32 disposals, 13/14 CP's and 7 clearances).

We play Dunstan there all year even though he only has those games occasionally, so if Jones could have a couple like that within a few weeks of being given a consistent go in there, there's possibly no reason we couldn't just play him there instead of Luke, if we wanted to.

Sounds like he's also spending time forward.

Then of course there's his speed. I think it's pretty clear that we want to be a quicker team, so that means you need to bring in guys with that attribute.

Sorry I should have added more detail. To me Jones is more of what we already have, I personally think their are others who will get priorty in the midfield over him ie good ball users, Clark, Gresham, Savage, Hannebry, My point is really that we really have enough HBF/Winger /Half back Mid. The issue I have is that there were really two positions that we well stocked for going into trade period being HB and HF/Small forward and we got more guys who play that position. There a fine line between pressure for spots and not being able to build ocnsistancy becuase their is a surpluss of guys playing the same position.

Also if we;ve brought Jones to play in the forward line then I'm even more dissapointed. My hope is that Ratten unlike Richo will actully give Jones some quality inside midfield minutes otherwise I do just think he will end up as another Flanker that we already have so many of Coff, Paton, Webster etc etc.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I think Long is one of the guys doing a Marshall style improvement this year ( maybe not to the same extreme as Marshall but one can hope!)

Will be interesting to see who if anyone does improve massively that we weren't expecting.

Like Roma last year, Skunk when he went from kicking about 10 goals in his first year for us to kicking 44 from 17 games the next, Bruce kicking 50 in his first full season forward, after being in and out the previous year, etc.

 

[prophetic1]

Billings in for a killing Hind kicks behinds. Saints make the opposition look like real Kent’s.

Premature ejection ...impossible to negatively type cast a player like Hind after half a season, you cant just pull a cover over him and pretend .....he's a swimmer he's worth a shot at the big oval egg!!!

 

[plugger66]

Premature ejection ...impossible to negatively type cast a player like Hind after half a season, you cant just pull a cover over him and pretend .....he's a swimmer he's worth a shot at the big oval egg!!!

As Kim k says on the Uber eats adds I literally don’t understand

 

[gringo2011]

Comon gringo that's a very glass half empty viewpoint. Acres contributed to Hill, Bruce got Jones and Stuv got us our top draft pick who both of us tagged as a winner at that piont in the draft.

Since the consensus was that Acres needed step up or move aside, he was likely headed for the scrap heap but became chump change in our best acquisition in about a decade.

Sure we got bent over on each trade, but that's what happens in those circumstances. Its largely offset by getting Jones and Howard cheaply, King at 4, Bytel at 41 and Byrnes at whatever it was.
Throw in Marsh and Mayo as new recruits for nothing too.

The reality is we took the absolute minimum in the draft by letting go 2 players who wanted out, and 2 players that were highly inconsistent and fringe at best, aka list cloggers.

Take a 2-3 year view on the whole thing and we've done alright and are in the positive recruitment wise. If our list management can pull even a break even result from the 2020 trade/draft, then we're still in front..

We have changed things up, hopefully we are on the right path this time. I have actually got over the trade period now. A few idiots just want to argue about it. I think Gags has taken his trade style from Sydney where he wants deals done rather than best value. If it works it's great. It's not how I'd do it but I respect his job and hope he's a gun.

A new coach is probably as big a reset as anything and should bring new momentum regardless. I just hope it's not another 5 years of rebuilding this time. I have the attention span of a gold fish. I can't wait much longer.