Autopsy 2024 AFL Season Round 17 vs Sydney Swans

[akaifu]

Because stocker has a defensive side to him and you dont just blow on to push him over

Because at least Stocker can defend and lift the team with courageous moments. Bonner is a liability both defensively and offensively and is as soft as a jellyfish

 

[Fehring]

...Hopefully they send Bonner back to Sandy. He is just one outside player too many. Balance was better this week. Arie did struggle at times but can’t wait to see him after another pre season getting is body up to standard.

I agree. I stayed out of the Bonner debates a few months back, but my issue with him was about team balance. When we were going badly, we had three rebounding defenders (Sincs, Nas, Bonner), a half rebounding/half defensive player (Stocker) and no lockdown defender (Webster/Paton). I wanted Bonner out on the basis that we had too many rebounding defenders, and the other two were undroppable. I think we look much better with two rebounders and a lockdown.

And, on balance, I think having Schooner as a loos-ish defender is better than having Bonner, just because Schoenmaker has so much upside (and may even be a better kick than Bonner).

 

[jh38]

I agree. I stayed out of the Bonner debates a few months back, but my issue with him was about team balance. When we were going badly, we had three rebounding defenders (Sincs, Nas, Bonner), a half rebounding/half defensive player (Stocker) and no lockdown defender (Webster/Paton). I wanted Bonner out on the basis that we had too many rebounding defenders, and the other two were undroppable. I think we look much better with two rebounders and a lockdown.

And, on balance, I think having Schooner as a loos-ish defender is better than having Bonner, just because Schoenmaker has so much upside (and may even be a better kick than Bonner).

He plays within his capability. If you bite off dangerous kicks coming out of D 50 and they don't come off, the result is a turnover and most likely a shot on goal. Both Schoenmaker and Bonner have the capacity to hit a long ball, but Arie seems to be a lot more composed and only pulls the trigger when he needs to.

Sydney also knew how dangerous Arie is with ball in hand. In that last quarter when he was taking kick ins, you could see the Swans players were all expecting him to bomb it 70m down the line, but he had the composure to find the loose man time and time again instead of doing what everyone thought he was going to do.

I know Arie had his off field issues, but I can't believe he slid to where he did, he's playing like a seasoned veteran in his 3rd game.

 

[Saint Watto]

How good would it be to knock the Baggers off and drop them out of the top 4 for finals.

Tyrian....for me personally.....that would be heaven arriving on this earth !!!!!

If that sounds a little on the psycho side....so be it !!!!!!!

It would be like an early Chrissy present......ol "Ho Ho" would have delivered.

In spades.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I agree. I stayed out of the Bonner debates a few months back, but my issue with him was about team balance. When we were going badly, we had three rebounding defenders (Sincs, Nas, Bonner), a half rebounding/half defensive player (Stocker) and no lockdown defender (Webster/Paton). I wanted Bonner out on the basis that we had too many rebounding defenders, and the other two were undroppable. I think we look much better with two rebounders and a lockdown.

And, on balance, I think having Schooner as a loos-ish defender is better than having Bonner, just because Schoenmaker has so much upside (and may even be a better kick than Bonner).

Its not an area where we need a lot of interchange either.
Our defence run out games pretty well.
Wilkie 100% TOG.
Battle 90%
Nas, 89%
Howard 86%
Webster 85%
Sinclair 83%

We need 67% of a player to rest them all.

Windhager +Paton 76%
Clark 64%
Philipou 68%
Wilson 73%

Midfield is where we need the rotations.
Steele working like he did as a mid for 87% , and Byrnes for nearly matching him with 84% is kind of amazing.

I thought those players would be better if they had adequate cover for more rotations, but i see Sydney also had huge TOG for the likes of Gulden, Heeney , Florent and Warner.

WTF Clark, Get fit!!!!

 

[sauce_head]

He plays within his capability. If you bite off dangerous kicks coming out of D 50 and they don't come off, the result is a turnover and most likely a shot on goal. Both Schoenmaker and Bonner have the capacity to hit a long ball, but Arie seems to be a lot more composed and only pulls the trigger when he needs to.

Sydney also knew how dangerous Arie is with ball in hand. In that last quarter when he was taking kick ins, you could see the Swans players were all expecting him to bomb it 70m down the line, but he had the composure to find the loose man time and time again instead of doing what everyone thought he was going to do.

I know Arie had his off field issues, but I can't believe he slid to where he did, he's playing like a seasoned veteran in his 3rd game.

His second half was great. We used him properly and he spread the field for us.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Usually you'd sit down with his manager and work out exactly what the terms he'd accept are. The Hawks won't be offering a $1 million pa x 6 or anything crazy. If you let him walk over $50k or something it's bad list management. You don't want to be a push over but you don't want to be a **** wit either.

Get it right!!

Bad list management is to simply pay an $50k to keep someone even though it may cost you Pick5/6.

Good list management is to pay an extra $50k to keep someone if you are only gonna get Pick 20+ as compo.

St Kilda FC knows this, Battle knows this, Battle's manager knows this. They are called professional footballers for a reason.

 

[The Punter]

It was great to see Arie play better in the second half when the whips were cracking. Good signs.

 

[Fehring]

It was great to see Arie play better in the second half when the whips were cracking. Good signs.

I thought he was a key part of our win. Solid defensively, and really impressive with his kicking. Mixed it up, always looking for the best option rather than just roosting it 60m every time.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If only we still had Nova-Peris.
He could drag his opponent down the field, then get Ari to shoot one over everyone's head and Zoooooom.

 

[sauce_head]

If only we still had Nova-Peris.
He could drag his opponent down the field, then get Ari to shoot one over everyone's head and Zoooooom.

Can’t we use Wilson for that?!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Can’t we use Wilson for that?!

He's fit but others would beat him on the burst.

Bloody Warner seemed to be able to run away from everyone in our side.

 

[luca77]

I agree. I stayed out of the Bonner debates a few months back, but my issue with him was about team balance. When we were going badly, we had three rebounding defenders (Sincs, Nas, Bonner), a half rebounding/half defensive player (Stocker) and no lockdown defender (Webster/Paton). I wanted Bonner out on the basis that we had too many rebounding defenders, and the other two were undroppable. I think we look much better with two rebounders and a lockdown.

And, on balance, I think having Schooner as a loos-ish defender is better than having Bonner, just because Schoenmaker has so much upside (and may even be a better kick than Bonner).

He's already gone past Bonner in my estimation. More composure, more physical presence, more reliable kick. Doesn't get up the ground as much as Bonner and still lacks game experience but I'm not dropping him for Riley.

Agree with team balance, remember commenting early on that we don't need Nas, Sincs, Bonner, Hill, Henry in the one team to move the ball. It's the opposite problem of having Geary, Ross and Dunstan in the one team.

If Battle leaves, we have another balance issue. Bonner, Stocker, Arie, Sincs, Webster no aerial presence. So unless Hammer, Keeler or Van Es(?) kick on we'll struggle. Although Nas is better in the air than I expected.

 

[gubby88]

Because at least Stocker can defend and lift the team with courageous moments. Bonner is a liability both defensively and offensively and is as soft as a jellyfish

every tried to tackle a jelly fish?

wouldnt reccomend it lol

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hayes]

On the money - so on Sunday the Swans had Heeney, Gulden, Warner and Rowbottom running through the midfield with guys like Papley pinch hitting. Their sub was Taylor Adams ours was Ben Paton!

Plus Sydney will get back this week Mills & Parker to add to their midfield. Great win on Sunday but that’s the midfield quality and depth an elite team has!

And that’s the difference isn’t it. We had everyone play well, a young mid come in and play out of his skin, even spread of goal kickers………and we win by 2 points. It was an awesome win but it still shows how far off we are in the middle. So frustrating because everything else is pretty much in place which is why I’m so desperate for another pick after ours. Imagine another Phillipou or two instead of say Clark in the middle, that’s what gets us a more convincing win. Battle had some nice moments I suppose but he’s not the difference maker we need.

 

[The Cobra]

I thought he was a key part of our win. Solid defensively, and really impressive with his kicking. Mixed it up, always looking for the best option rather than just roosting it 60m every time.

Needs to work on his speed & defensive craft (to address those deficiencies he needs to put in a big off season, listen to Boris and gain experience (which you can’t buy)) HAVING SAID THAT his shoe is a weapon and he is the future.

Hope RTB and Boris ride him hard to get the best out of himself because he could really be something (an upgrade on a Lever type?)!

 

[pebblesofsand]

And that’s the difference isn’t it. We had everyone play well, a young mid come in and play out of his skin, even spread of goal kickers………and we win by 2 points. It was an awesome win but it still shows how far off we are in the middle. So frustrating because everything else is pretty much in place which is why I’m so desperate for another pick after ours. Imagine another Phillipou or two instead of say Clark in the middle, that’s what gets us a more convincing win. Battle had some nice moments I suppose but he’s not the difference maker we need.

Yep thats the thing.

The issue is not only how much you might lose but also how much might you gain if it was say someone like Tomlinson (instead of Battle) AND Pick 5 or 6.

Tough call but as I've said before - if compo is end of Round 1 you'd definitely keep hold onto Battle. Pick 5/6 makes it more interesting. How much extra did Geelong cough up to get Pick 7 in the Bowes trade?

First time we got a real idea of the $ value clubs put on high draft picks.

 

[hayes]

I love how non flustered Shoenmaker is as a third gamer taking the kick ins under the pressure of playing the best team in it. But then I guess if playing at the Gabba doesn’t phase you then what will. What a weapon he will be.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Needs to work on his speed & defensive craft (to address those deficiencies he needs to put in a big off season, listen to Boris and gain experience (which you can’t buy)) HAVING SAID THAT his shoe is a weapon and he is the future.

Hope RTB and Boris ride him hard to get the best out of himself because he could really be something (an upgrade on a Lever type?)!

Steven Baker's shoe was a weapon, he used to sharpen the stops.

 

[gringo2011]

Get it right!!

Bad list management is to simply pay an $50k to keep someone even though it may cost you Pick5/6.

Good list management is to pay an extra $50k to keep someone if you are only gonna get Pick 20+ as compo.

St Kilda FC knows this, Battle knows this, Battle's manager knows this. They are called professional footballers for a reason.

It depends how you rate the pick in the draft. It has to have a benefit or it's just wanking off about winning something when you are weakening your own list. Its looks more likely to be pick 6 than 5 now. Pushed out to 7 with Ashcroft going early.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep thats the thing.

The issue is not only how much you might lose but also how much might you gain if it was say someone like Tomlinson (instead of Battle) AND Pick 5 or 6.

Tough call but as I've said before - if compo is end of Round 1 you'd definitely keep hold onto Battle. Pick 5/6 makes it more interesting. How much extra did Geelong cough up to get Pick 7 in the Bowes trade?

First time we got a real idea of the $ value clubs put on high draft picks.

Tomlinson is over 30. If they are not going to keep Battle getting an old guy seems idiotic. You'd just back Schoenmaker in at that point. There is nothing to be gained by Tomlinson. Imagine trading for him. He'll be another McKernan or Sam Rowe.

 

[gringo2011]

And that’s the difference isn’t it. We had everyone play well, a young mid come in and play out of his skin, even spread of goal kickers………and we win by 2 points. It was an awesome win but it still shows how far off we are in the middle. So frustrating because everything else is pretty much in place which is why I’m so desperate for another pick after ours. Imagine another Phillipou or two instead of say Clark in the middle, that’s what gets us a more convincing win. Battle had some nice moments I suppose but he’s not the difference maker we need.

You need a developed mid now if you want to compete before the old guys retire. Any kids we draft are unlikely to be consistently dominating a midfield role until their third year.

 

[Ads734]

You need a developed mid now if you want to compete before the old guys retire. Any kids we draft are unlikely to be consistently dominating a midfield role until their third year.

My hope for next year is to have one of Owens/Pou on the ball at all times next year.

 

[gringo2011]

My hope for next year is to have one of Owens/Pou on the ball at all times next year.

So far Phillipou is the only one that looks close. Owens looks like he could do with some time in the reserves to build his confidence up. Hopefully Owens starts to pick up next year and pushes in too. You'd want more than hoping they come on though.

I hope Pou can set last match as his level now and soars but if he's not going well you can't play him regardless. I think we need some good depth options now. Move Jones out and get someone like Parker, Brodie or even a semi developed type like Ward.

 

[Sully111]

So far Phillipou is the only one that looks close. Owens looks like he could do with some time in the reserves to build his confidence up. Hopefully Owens starts to pick up next year and pushes in too. You'd want more than hoping they come on though.

I hope Pou can set last match as his level now and soars but if he's not going well you can't play him regardless. I think we need some good depth options now. Move Jones out and get someone like Parker, Brodie or even a semi developed type like Ward.

The problem with our club, and this forum to be honest, is players aren't given a chance to prove themselves before we judge them.

They'll stick Sharman forward for a week or two and if he doesn't set the world on fire, he gets dropped or put down back.

Judging Mitch's ability to play as a mid by his performance wandering around what has for the most part been a completely dysfunctional forward line receiving dogsh*t delivery doesn't work.

He needs to train there, and be left there most of the time.

Sharman needs to be backed in as a starting forward.

Mitch Owens will kill it as bull midfielder. It'll happen eventually.. either with us or someone else. When it does people here will say why didn't that happen earlier and I... along with a few others here.... will shake our heads in disbelief.