2020 Preseason training Part 2

[JohnW]

All the size in the world counts for naught in footy if you aren't fit as well.

Being a big unit goes out the window when you get to the next contest and are so exhausted a stick could knock you over.


I'd be happier if Naitanui came back 6-7kg's lighter than McGovern. One is injury prone and played 35 games in 4 seasons, the other has won 4 straight AA's.

You'd think missing out on a premiership and missing 65 out of 100 games since the 2015 grand final due to injury would be a motivator

Or maybe the experts are happy with Nic Nat.

 

[FreeTK]

 

[Avalor]

View attachment 879025

Coleman, here I come.

 

[squashface]

Looks like Petch didn’t get involved in the home gym rush at the start of iso

 

[WCErevival]

Going by Nizzy on 6pr this morning sounds like they will just take the whole squad over to the hub.

Its going to be a holiday for a handful of players that are no chance of being selected

 

[WCErevival]

Looks like Petch didn’t get involved in the home gym rush at the start of iso

I think he isolated at a concentration camp.

 

[FreeTK]

Injured West Coast Eagles young-gun won’t travel with team to Gold Coast hub
Mitchell Woodcock & Jordan McArdleThe West Australian
Friday, 22 May 2020 4:00AM

Promising West Coast midfielder Mitch O’Neill won’t be a part of the club’s season resumption on the Gold Coast as he battles a serious back injury.
The West Australian can reveal the luckless 19-year-old is still in Tasmania with family recovering from a stress fracture in his back, the latest injury which has hampered his last 12 months.
The Eagles do not have a timeframe for when he will return to the club and there are no plans right now for O’Neill to link up with his teammates in south-east Queensland.


O’Neill, pick 25 in last year’s rookie draft, was one of only three players drafted last year who earned back-to-back under-18 All-Australian honours, averaging more than 22 disposals and five marks playing for the Allies, before a serious knee injury ended his season.
He has impressed his new teammates since arriving at Mineral Resources Park, with skipper Luke Shuey likening him to John Worsfold medallist Andrew Gaff.
“Tough, a good runner, similar to ‘Gaffy’ from what I have seen over the pre-season,” Shuey told Eagles in Isolation earlier this month.
O’Neill also compared himself to the best-and-fairest winner after he was drafted.
“I’m really excited to learn off Andrew Gaff. He’s plays a similar game to me,” Gaff told the club’s website.
“I’ve always watched him growing up because he’s a similar player to me. I’m looking forward to seeing how he trains and how he prepares for games.”
Besides O’Neill and premiership duo Willie Rioli (ASADA suspension) and Daniel Venables (concussion), West Coast are expected to have their full squad available to train after four of their players were released from quarantine.

Premiership midfielder Jack Redden, who spent the AFL’s COVID-19 shutdown period in his home state of South Australia, young ruckman Bailey Williams, forward Jamaine Jones and Xavier O’Neill (Victoria) all finished their mandatory two-week quarantine last night.
Fremantle have also been boosted on the training track with their full squad now out of quarantine.
Andy Brayshaw, who had been sharing a house with fellow Victorians Caleb Serong, Lloyd Meek and Hayden Young during the self-isolation period, had been keeping his Instagram followers update during the 14-day stretch which begun when they touched down at Perth Airport on May 6.
The other members of Fremantle’s quarantine members were rising star Sam Sturt, Sean Darcy, Lachie Schultz, Adam Cerra, Matt Taberner and South Australian recruit James Aish.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Or maybe the experts are happy with Nic Nat.

The "experts" being happy with Naitanui has yielded us just 35 out of a possible 100 games. For probably the most expensive players on our list at that point.

If you're happy with this, and the fact we'll likely have to play a 2nd ruckman to accommodate Naitanui yet again, then you've set a pretty low bar IMO.

 

[FreeTK]

The "experts" being happy with Naitanui has yielded us just 35 out of a possible 100 games. For probably the most expensive players on our list at that point.

If you're happy with this, and the fact we'll likely have to play a 2nd ruckman to accommodate Naitanui yet again, then you've set a pretty low bar IMO.

NicNat's new contract, which he signed in 2019 was significantly less. He was on around 900K average. Estimated to be around 400K pre COVID-19 cuts.

I think the shorter quarters help us with NicNat and our dilemma with too many talls. We have more options as he needs less support in the ruck, in terms of actual minutes. I highly doubt we will see a ruck combo of NicNat and Hickey/Vardy in 2020.

We could go NicNat as ruck and have second ruck split between OscarAllen, Darling. Bailey Williams was pretty exciting in the marsh series as well.

It's not 2019 anymore dark sharks.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I'm talking about his output from 2016-2020 bruv.

He's only signed the reduced contract last year, so he was still on ridiculous coin for the entire period i mentioned, up until presumably the start of 2020.



And low and behold we had two play 2 ruckman in round 1, yet again. Despite the reduced quarter length. Wanna know how that played out?


Hickey was the lowest ranked player on the ground. He didn't have a disposal until the 4th quarter, and finished with 4 touches and 8 hitouts. From 52% TOG.


We essentially hid a player on the bench for half a game. Why? Because Naitanui isn't fit enough (61% TOG) and that's with reduced quarters.

Hickey is an endurance ruckman. This 50% TOG roundabout we keep doing with him and Naitanui is absolute bollocks.


The sooner we get Williams or Allen in, and Naitanui miraculously does something he hasn't been able to do for years, (increasing his TOG minutes) the better.

 

[Chris_6678]

I'm talking about his output from 2016-2020 bruv.

He's only signed the reduced contract last year, so he was still on ridiculous coin for the entire period i mentioned, up until presumably the start of 2020.



And low and behold we had two play 2 ruckman in round 1, yet again. Despite the reduced quarter length. Wanna know how that played out?


Hickey was the lowest ranked player on the ground. He didn't have a disposal until the 4th quarter, and finished with 4 touches and 8 hitouts. From 52% TOG.


We essentially hid a player on the bench for half a game. Why? Because Naitanui isn't fit enough (61% TOG) and that's with reduced quarters.

Hickey is an endurance ruckman. This 50% TOG roundabout we keep doing with him and Naitanui is absolute bollocks.


The sooner we get Williams or Allen in, and Naitanui miraculously does something he hasn't been able to do for years, (increasing his TOG minutes) the better.

Before his setback i think Bailey was meant to be playing round 1.

Personally i prefer Vardy over Hickey who to much of an early 2000's ruckman who would get heaps of Hitouts but barely any disposals. Vardy can at least impact up front when he is in his 2017-18 form.

If we can bump Nic nats game time to at least 70% we should be sweet paring him with Bailey.

 

[FreeTK]

I'm talking about his output from 2016-2020 bruv.

He's only signed the reduced contract last year, so he was still on ridiculous coin for the entire period i mentioned, up until presumably the start of 2020.



And low and behold we had two play 2 ruckman in round 1, yet again. Despite the reduced quarter length. Wanna know how that played out?


Hickey was the lowest ranked player on the ground. He didn't have a disposal until the 4th quarter, and finished with 4 touches and 8 hitouts. From 52% TOG.


We essentially hid a player on the bench for half a game. Why? Because Naitanui isn't fit enough (61% TOG) and that's with reduced quarters.

Hickey is an endurance ruckman. This 50% TOG roundabout we keep doing with him and Naitanui is absolute bollocks.


The sooner we get Williams or Allen in, and Naitanui miraculously does something he hasn't been able to do for years, (increasing his TOG minutes) the better.

The only reason we played Hickey is because Oscar and Bailey were both injured. I don't think that is first preference for ruck set ups.

I honestly don't think he is unfit.

It doesn't matter how fit NicNat is, they won't increase his TOG above 65% -70% even in the context of reduced quarters. He is a compromised athlete.

Given his athletic profile (200cm/105KG). The risk with NicNat is injury due to loss of form while under fatigue.

On the other hand, slimming down may affect his power in ruck contests. So there isn't an easy option.

Reduced quarters with same number of rotations helps reduce the impact of selecting the team around NicNat.

We were a better side in 2019 when he was on the ground.

It is what it is.

 

[Dark Sharks]

He hasn't averaged more than 66% since 2015, so 70% is no chance IMO.

His 61% TOG in round 1 was with reduced quarters so probably more like 55-58% of a normal game (I'm just guessing there)


Williams is who we all want, but unless Naitanui gets his minutes up, i think that's a pretty tough ask for a young kid.


I know exactly what Naitanui brings, i know he makes us infinitely better, i'd just like to see the club actually do something to manage his biggest weakness.

Getting his minutes up makes us a MUCH better team. I just don't see how this isn't a priority. Makes no sense to me. You want your best on the field.

Of all the players you want to be in ripping nick, training the house down, slimmed down, running PB's, all that bullshit, it's him.

 

[FreeTK]

He hasn't averaged more than 66% since 2015, so 70% is no chance IMO.

His 61% TOG in round 1 was with reduced quarters so probably more like 55-58% of a normal game (I'm just guessing there)


Williams is who we all want, but unless Naitanui gets his minutes up, i think that's a pretty tough ask for a young kid.


I know exactly what Naitanui brings, i know he makes us infinitely better, i'd just like to see the club actually do something to manage his biggest weakness.

Getting his minutes up makes us a MUCH better team. I just don't see how this isn't a priority. Makes no sense to me. You want your best on the field.

Of all the players you want to be in ripping nick, training the house down, slimmed down, running PB's, all that bullshit, it's him.

70% of reduced quarters is about 62-63% TOG in a normal game with 20 minute quarters and is achievable I think.

You seem to think that the reason NicNat plays 60% is because he isn't fit enough.

I don't think that's the reason. It's because playing under fatigue will result in another injury that will end his career.

 

[Chris_6678]

I think we can give Bailey some decent minutes and see how he goes?

He wont have to be the number 1 ruckman , shorter 1/4's and only 16 games for the season so i would take the punt on him and see what he can do? Hell we used O Allen as a backup ruck in a role he never played previously and he did an alright job.

 

[FreeTK]

I think we can give Bailey some decent minutes and see how he goes?

He wont have to be the number 1 ruckman , shorter 1/4's and only 16 games for the season so i would take the punt on him and see what he can do? Hell we used O Allen as a backup ruck in a role he never played previously and he did an alright job.

I wonder if we will go 3 tall forwards + 2 rucks with higher number of rotations through the forward line in these reduced quarters.

 

[Dark Sharks]

70% of reduced quarters is about 62-63% TOG in a normal game with 20 minute quarters and is achievable I think.

You seem to think that the reason NicNat plays 60% is because he isn't fit enough.

I don't think that's the reason. It's because playing under fatigue will result in another injury that will end his career.

Absolutely i do. The size he's carrying now is much different to what he carried up until 2015.

If he stayed injury free after his weight gain in 2016 then sure, you could make a case for him doing less minutes to manage his injuries, but that hasn't happened at all.

The heavier he's gotten, the less minutes he's played, the MORE he has been injured.

Getting heavier as he's getting older, coming off multiple groin and lower leg injuries including 2 separate ACL's also wouldn't do wonders for his durability.
Most people would think slimming him down to levels pre 2016 blowout would only improve both his fitness and conditioning.

Right now we're seemingly sticking with the same method of managing him we've done for the past few years, which hasn't kept him on the park.


We'll know a bit more in a few weeks. If he only manages 61% TOG in round 2 in shorter quarters again.



Chris_6678

Oscar generally would back up Hickey in 2019, rather than Naitanui. So shorter stints, just chop outs.

There wasn't a single game Oscar played with Naitanui without Hickey.

Whoever backs up Naitanui is in for a good 40% of ruck work however, and will need to carry a bit more load.

I pray first that Simmo gives Williams a chance, and then Williams holds his own.

 

[FreeTK]

Absolutely i do. The size he's carrying now is much different to what he carried up until 2015.

If he stayed injury free after his weight gain in 2016 then sure, you could make a case for him doing less minutes to manage his injuries, but that hasn't happened at all.

The heavier he's gotten, the less minutes he's played, the MORE he has been injured.

Getting heavier as he's getting older, coming off multiple groin and lower leg injuries including 2 separate ACL's also wouldn't do wonders for his durability.
Most people would think slimming him down to levels pre 2016 blowout would only improve both his fitness and conditioning.

Right now we're seemingly sticking with the same method of managing him we've done for the past few years, which hasn't kept him on the park.


We'll know a bit more in a few weeks. If he only manages 61% TOG in round 2 in shorter quarters again.



Chris_6678

Oscar generally would back up Hickey in 2019, rather than Naitanui. So shorter stints, just chop outs.

Whoever backs up Naitanui is in for a good 40% of ruck work however, and will need to carry a bit more load.

I pray first that Simmo gives Williams a chance, and then Williams holds his own.

I think you nailed it on the head there.

He is getting older. People's bodies change (even elite athletes bodies).

I can't see him slimming down without losing considerable muscle, and that will affect his power and ability to compete aerially.

I think if they can get him to 65% TOG it would be a good showing.

 

[ziad]

NicNat's new contract, which he signed in 2019 was significantly less. He was on around 900K average. Estimated to be around 400K pre COVID-19 cuts.

I think the shorter quarters help us with NicNat and our dilemma with too many talls. We have more options as he needs less support in the ruck, in terms of actual minutes. I highly doubt we will see a ruck combo of NicNat and Hickey/Vardy in 2020.

We could go NicNat as ruck and have second ruck split between OscarAllen, Darling. Bailey Williams was pretty exciting in the marsh series as well.

It's not 2019 anymore dark sharks.

Footy is won by those who bring the most agression and power to the contest. Nic is our leading tank - he is a contest breaker. You can spend all you like on those that watch the contest.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I think you nailed it on the head there.

He is getting older. People's bodies change (even elite athletes bodies).

I can't see him slimming down without losing considerable muscle, and that will affect his power and ability to compete aerially.

I think if they can get him to 65% TOG it would be a good showing.

Nah.

He was monstering other ruckman between 2012-2016.

Other than against Sandilands, he's never really been undersized. His best marking season by far was back in 2012, he was a good 15kg's lighter back then.

We all know he's a burst type player and endurance isn't his thing, but surely he can drop between 5-8kg's without it impacting his strength in the contest.

Just being able to cover the ground a bit more and take some weight off his joints, rebuilt knees and ageing body would help.

Most KPP's tend to do this exact thing later in their careers to prolong things. Demonstrated by Kennedy recently.


I don't expect Naitanui to glide across the gound like Dean Cox, that's just silly. But if he can drop a few kegs just so he can stay out on the park a bit longer and get to more contests, that would be a huge win for him, his body, for the club, and for Williams.

 

[RookiePick]

Injured West Coast Eagles young-gun won’t travel with team to Gold Coast hub
Mitchell Woodcock & Jordan McArdleThe West Australian
Friday, 22 May 2020 4:00AM

Promising West Coast midfielder Mitch O’Neill won’t be a part of the club’s season resumption on the Gold Coast as he battles a serious back injury.
The West Australian can reveal the luckless 19-year-old is still in Tasmania with family recovering from a stress fracture in his back, the latest injury which has hampered his last 12 months.
The Eagles do not have a timeframe for when he will return to the club and there are no plans right now for O’Neill to link up with his teammates in south-east Queensland.


O’Neill, pick 25 in last year’s rookie draft, was one of only three players drafted last year who earned back-to-back under-18 All-Australian honours, averaging more than 22 disposals and five marks playing for the Allies, before a serious knee injury ended his season.
He has impressed his new teammates since arriving at Mineral Resources Park, with skipper Luke Shuey likening him to John Worsfold medallist Andrew Gaff.
“Tough, a good runner, similar to ‘Gaffy’ from what I have seen over the pre-season,” Shuey told Eagles in Isolation earlier this month.
O’Neill also compared himself to the best-and-fairest winner after he was drafted.
“I’m really excited to learn off Andrew Gaff. He’s plays a similar game to me,” Gaff told the club’s website.
“I’ve always watched him growing up because he’s a similar player to me. I’m looking forward to seeing how he trains and how he prepares for games.”
Besides O’Neill and premiership duo Willie Rioli (ASADA suspension) and Daniel Venables (concussion), West Coast are expected to have their full squad available to train after four of their players were released from quarantine.

Premiership midfielder Jack Redden, who spent the AFL’s COVID-19 shutdown period in his home state of South Australia, young ruckman Bailey Williams, forward Jamaine Jones and Xavier O’Neill (Victoria) all finished their mandatory two-week quarantine last night.
Fremantle have also been boosted on the training track with their full squad now out of quarantine.
Andy Brayshaw, who had been sharing a house with fellow Victorians Caleb Serong, Lloyd Meek and Hayden Young during the self-isolation period, had been keeping his Instagram followers update during the 14-day stretch which begun when they touched down at Perth Airport on May 6.
The other members of Fremantle’s quarantine members were rising star Sam Sturt, Sean Darcy, Lachie Schultz, Adam Cerra, Matt Taberner and South Australian recruit James Aish.

That's shit news for MO'N. Backs can be complete campaigners so I hope he makes a full recovery, there is a lot to like about him if he can get his body right.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Hopefully Vardy can get back into form. His best shits all over Hickey's.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Hopefully Vardy can get back into form. His best shits all over Hickey's.

Bailey Williams should be ahead of both.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Bailey has a pretty rude lid these days.

Considering how little Hickey impacted the game in round 1, he's surely got to be the frontrunner if he's overcome his injury niggles.

 

[Chris_6678]

I cant help but feel Mitch made the wrong decision spending too much time filming star wars that he could have gotten his body right so he was in line for a debut.