List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Watch

[JasRulz63]

Current no. of players on the list
Senior list - 34 (2-4 free*)
Rookie (Cat A) - 4 (0-2 free*)
Rookie (Cat B) - 2 (0 free)
Maximum list size of 44. Up to 36-38 senior list, 4-6 category A rookie list and 2 category B rookie list.
* Total of four list spots available, with a minimum of 2 senior list spots needing to be utilised.

List changes
IN: Daniher, Cockatoo, Uosis (R)
OUT: Christensen, Wooller, Allison (R), Skinner (R), Eagles (R), C. Lyons (R), Martin, Witherden, Cox, Hinge.
PROMOTED: Fullarton.
ROOKIED: Birchall, Mathieson, Ballendan.

Current picks
25, 53, 58, 69, 70
(2021 - 1st (MEL), 1st, 3rd (WCE), 3rd, 4th (MEL), 4th (COLL), 5th)

Spoiler: 2020 draft order

Useful links
2020 trade news compendium
List changes, contract status and key dates
2020 draft discussion thread

 

[Nunez]

When he does eventually explode he will genuinely explode Rayner will.
Talking a 5-6 goal game with strong marks and 20 odd touches.
He is on the cusp of doing so I reckon.

He suffers maybe a bit from not being a focal point enough behind Charlie and the bigs. Caught between flying and staying down. Caught up the ground.
His body has changed a heap and looks super powerful but lean through the legs at the minute.
Very confident he will be a big game player for us.

Yeah I'm not worried about him. Easy to forget we were the highest scoring team in the comp last year and even in finals had more shots than the opposition but screwed ourselves with inaccuracy.

 

[jackess]

When he does eventually explode he will genuinely explode Rayner will.
Talking a 5-6 goal game with strong marks and 20 odd touches.
He is on the cusp of doing so I reckon.

He suffers maybe a bit from not being a focal point enough behind Charlie and the bigs. Caught between flying and staying down. Caught up the ground.
His body has changed a heap and looks super powerful but lean through the legs at the minute.
Very confident he will be a big game player for us.

Rayner and Charlie might be an interesting comparison. Cameron probably had a similar output at the Crows when he was not a main target but then exploded when he was the main target for us.

 

[Fagenslions36]

Really ? I don’t see the comparison of them at all . Rayner was an elite junior talent who was obviously more developed and powerful then a lot of his peers , Cameron was a late stater to footy but possesses probably the best lateral movement at top end speed the game has probably seen . Point being one has elite speed and has now learned the game the other clearly doesn’t . I wish Rayner did do these 5-6 goal games and become the player we hope but every game I watch I see fumbled , limited impact . Even his kicking has gone way off , he was meant to be a beautiful kick of footy his shooting for goal is shocking . Happy to be Proven wrong but on 500 k per year he Would want to Really start taking games by scruff of the neck now .

Rayner and Charlie might be an interesting comparison. Cameron probably had a similar output at the Crows when he was not a main target but then exploded when he was the main target for us.

 

[Slax]

Sadly, I reckon Rowell has shown more in his 2 games than Rayner has in his career to date. Walsh too.

Rayner has definitely improved from his first year when he was gifted games whilst doing nothing and is steadily improving, but we were dudded in the no.1 pick stakes as far as guns go. I'll be happy to be proven wrong in years down the track, but I just don't ever see Rayner being in the class that Rowell and Walsh will end up and or even the three top 20 picks that joined the Power last year. Unlike all of these kids, Rayner still hasn't come close to being the dominating player on the ground and getting all votes (coaches and Brownlow) than all the other lads has.

Disappointing really.

Comparing Rayner to Rowell is stupid and people doing it do not understand the draft. You can only compare Rayner to players in the same draft as him and realistically only to the top 5 of the draft as he was clearly rated at the time as one of the top 3 picks.

Pick 2 - Andrew Brayshaw, club believed he was a go home risk.
Pick 3 - Paddy Dow, was the player I believe we were debating whether to pick Rayner against. Made right call.
Pick 4 - Luke Davies-Uniacke, hasn't been able to bed down a spot at North
Pick 5 - Adam Cerra, hasn't shown much to suggest going to be elite either.

 

[Nunez]

In what world was Rayner drafted to be an elite player in his second year?

If he's at this level in years 4 and 5 then we should worry. Alas, I am confident we'll see good footy from Cam this year. He's moving a lot better now compared to last year. Was rusty on the weekend but you could see how much his fitness has improved.

 

[lionshine]

It is perhaps also worth remembering that Rayner was in some doubt with a knee issue heading into the Dockers game so potentially had even more rust then everyone else carrying a slight niggle.

 

[Dylan12]

Comparing Rayner to Rowell is stupid and people doing it do not understand the draft. You can only compare Rayner to players in the same draft as him and realistically only to the top 5 of the draft as he was clearly rated at the time as one of the top 3 picks.

Pick 2 - Andrew Brayshaw, club believed he was a go home risk.
Pick 3 - Paddy Dow, was the player I believe we were debating whether to pick Rayner against. Made right call.
Pick 4 - Luke Davies-Uniacke, hasn't been able to bed down a spot at North
Pick 5 - Adam Cerra, hasn't shown much to suggest going to be elite either.

The point was that Rayner has yet to show anything or have anywhere near the impact that fellow no.1 picks have had in recent years including Rowell, Walsh, McGrath and anyone of the three Port boys taken in 2018. He has yet to dominate a game or even come close to being in the best players on a ground in any one game and still continues to butcher kicks and drop simple marks. Hardly the qualities of a number one pick. To be honest, in any other year, he plays like a second or third round pick, let alone a first round or pick number one.

 

[a mayes ing]

Comparing Rayner to Rowell is stupid and people doing it do not understand the draft. You can only compare Rayner to players in the same draft as him and realistically only to the top 5 of the draft as he was clearly rated at the time as one of the top 3 picks.

Pick 2 - Andrew Brayshaw, club believed he was a go home risk.
Pick 3 - Paddy Dow, was the player I believe we were debating whether to pick Rayner against. Made right call.
Pick 4 - Luke Davies-Uniacke, hasn't been able to bed down a spot at North
Pick 5 - Adam Cerra, hasn't shown much to suggest going to be elite either.

Really?! I thught all the noises were coming out that he was really loyal and definitly wouldn't leave. That he would get a safe 200+ games of high quality from him but that we chose Rayner because he was the x-factor. You can get Brayshaw's anywhere in the draft really but players like Rayner's potential you get at the top of the draft. I actually thught the club believed Dow was a huge go home risk.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Is it just me or did Brayshaws stocks rise when it was revealed we had him in mind for the number 1 pick? Don't recall him being hyped up as a top draft pick prior. Anyway comparing Rayner to Walsh et al is apples & oranges. May as well compare the progress of a mid fielder to a ruck man.

 

[briztoon]

Is it just me or did Brayshaws stocks rise when it was revealed we had him in mind for the number 1 pick? Don't recall him being hyped up as a top draft pick prior. Anyway comparing Rayner to Walsh et al is apples & oranges. May as well compare the progress of a mid fielder to a ruck man.

No, not just you. That’s how it played out publicly. Conole mentioned Brayshaw at the draft combine, and all of a sudden he moved up all the draft boards.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Herald Sun is linking us with Nakia Cockatoo

The Lions had salary room for both Lachie Neale and Dayne Beams 18 months ago and they still have cap space. Like many clubs, they would love another explosive midfielder, but they are hard to find.


All the kids are signed up long-term so with Stef Martin 34 in November, is Oscar McInerney his successor or do they need back-up? Will keep an eye on injury-prone Nakia Cockatoo if he can’t get a run at it, having had similar luck resuscitating the career of ex-Cat Lincoln McCarthy. In a great spot.

 

[briztoon]

Herald Sun is linking us with Nakia Cockatoo

I would hope that is a 1+1 type of link.

Every long term injured player linked to the Lions as that’s now their m.o. for cheap trades.

Personally I’d prioritise drafting Blake Coleman from our academy over trading in a permacrock like Cockatoo.

 

[neg99]

Comparing Rayner to Rowell is stupid and people doing it do not understand the draft. You can only compare Rayner to players in the same draft as him and realistically only to the top 5 of the draft as he was clearly rated at the time as one of the top 3 picks.

Pick 2 - Andrew Brayshaw, club believed he was a go home risk.
Pick 3 - Paddy Dow, was the player I believe we were debating whether to pick Rayner against. Made right call.
Pick 4 - Luke Davies-Uniacke, hasn't been able to bed down a spot at North
Pick 5 - Adam Cerra, hasn't shown much to suggest going to be elite either.

I think the point was less that we drafted poorly and more that we ended up with the wrong year to finally have such a high pick...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dylan12]

I think the point was less that we drafted poorly and more that we ended up with the wrong year to finally have such a high pick...

Correct.

 

[jackess]

I think the point was less that we drafted poorly and more that we ended up with the wrong year to finally have such a high pick...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We had pick 3 in the right year, the year before.

Shit happens unfortunately.

Still Rayner>Schache

 

[martinson]

Rayner tries really hard and has passion for the contest , he's worked to get himself to the required fitness level , once he stops getting over anxious to grab at the ball and do something miraculous I'm sure he'll settle into being a good player. Rowell and Walsh are completely elite in what they've been able to do ,I'm sure if we had the No.1 pick we would've picked them.

Historically some years are duds and other years are swimming with talent . Which you usually don't find out until much later.

 

[Section 5]

We all would have liked Rayner to be a super player in his early years.
It is easy to forget he is only 20 years and seven months old.
Pretty much has 4 to 5 years to reach his peak.
The other players on our list between the age of 20 & 21 and games played
Rayner 48, Bailey 29, Answorth 20, Starcevich 7, & T Berry with 1 game

Hopefully all these players have a great career

 

[scoman]

Comparing Rayner to Rowell is stupid and people doing it do not understand the draft. You can only compare Rayner to players in the same draft as him and realistically only to the top 5 of the draft as he was clearly rated at the time as one of the top 3 picks.

Pick 2 - Andrew Brayshaw, club believed he was a go home risk.
Pick 3 - Paddy Dow, was the player I believe we were debating whether to pick Rayner against. Made right call.
Pick 4 - Luke Davies-Uniacke, hasn't been able to bed down a spot at North
Pick 5 - Adam Cerra, hasn't shown much to suggest going to be elite either.

Yeah that top 5 is pretty uninspiring at this point. I know Freo fans have high hopes for Cerra but even he hasn't shown much at this point for a high pick midfielder.

 

[Fagenslions36]

brayshaw was never a go home
Risk . He shot to top of draft conversations because lions thought exactly the opposite , great leader , integrity and would more than likely commit to club long term. In end we went with Rayner because we rated him the best player in the draft .

Yeah that top 5 is pretty uninspiring at this point. I know Freo fans have high hopes for Cerra but even he hasn't shown much at this point for a high pick midfielder.

 

[briztoon]

Caldwell left his kicking boots at home, and his radar has gone missing tonight.

 

[dlanod]

Caldwell left his kicking boots at home, and his radar has gone missing tonight.

I thought he was meant to be a good kick but he's been below average in the seniors.

 

[jjami15]

It is an interesting time due to the very likely possibility of list reduction and cap space for all clubs. Who is going to be pushed out from our club and others and how much will we have to spend is the real question?

Lasts years three acquisitions I don’t see us making a better tram long term and think it was a mistake to have brought them in. It would have cost us $$ IMO and also the length of some of the contracts will be a bit of dead weight.

We have some real talent on our list but I feel there is a very big gap between them and the next tier level of players.

forwards; Charlie and Zorko
Mids; Neale and McCluggage
Backs; Andrews

Then?

I really think that we need to be aggressively trying to court Zac Williams. We talk about the Gabba being a fast track so it’s players with a bit of run that should be targets.

Let’s be honest, we don’t have any real KPF strength on our list. Brody Mihocek isn’t a true KPF but I would have him in front of most on our list and could be one to pry away. I would stay away from Daniher with a ten foot pole. The $$$ to get him is too much of a ruck with his body.

As others have stated another ruck is a must.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Rayner is going to be a very good player.

Some very premature negativity here.

 

[LIONS08]

Rayner is going to be a very good player.

Some very premature negativity here.

Could not agree more! The kid is 20!

 

[Dylan12]

Rayner is going to be a very good player.

Some very premature negativity here.

No-one is disputing that he won't be.

I on the other hand am saying that unlike a plethora of other guys i.e. Rowell, Walsh, Rozee, Butters, Duursma etc. we are unfortunately having to wait for Rayner to possibly come good, albeit with the odd glimpse, whereas these guys are performing to that high stand and getting BOG's already in their first and second years. Rayner is in his third yet, yet still not performing to the level of these young guys, so even if he is going to be a good player, he will be good player for fewer years than these other good players, so how can you not be disappointed with the output of a number one pick that is struggling?