2021 - Best 22

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Kiama Chris said:
It's interesting to try to work out which players are competing with each other for spots. Doesn't mean they can't both play seniors but....
Is Ling in competition with Cunningham and Lloyd? Both small but very different roles. Is Gould in competition with Melican or with Mills, O'Riordan and Fox? We have a fair number of potential wingers: Dawson, Blakey, Florent, Stephenson, McInerney, Foot. Do Wicks and Hayward now compete as defensive forwards?
Must cross both players' and coaches' minds.
Click to expand...
I try to pidgeon hole playersin my mind into what multiple roles I see them play best. If X is playing in defence now then that will potentially release Y to play on a wing today. That will enable him to kick inside fifty. So we need Q to move to and so on.........We have drafted so many players in recent years with both kicking ability and pace and footy smarts. If they have those skills they can obviously play multiple roles. Lots of moving the chess pieces within games.
 
Kiama Chris said:
I think we're building a bit of a bank here.
Ruck Forwards Sinclair (31) McLean (21)
Forwards Franklin (34) Paddy McCartin (24)
Tall Backs Rampe (30) Brand (26) Tom McCartin (21) Grainger-Barrass (19)
Couple of assumptions there of course. Now take a look at who is there season start 2024. Add 3 to age.
McLean
Paddy McCartin
Brand
Tom McCartin
DGB
Hopefully Gould by then as a KPD to allow Tom at CHF.
Plus a ruck we recruit this year after Sam, Tom, Cal are all gone.
Click to expand...
I like the analysis. I spend way to much time doing the same thing. I havent looked at it that far out.
 
Bear31 said:
I try to pidgeon hole playersin my mind into what multiple roles I see them play best. If X is playing in defence now then that will potentially release Y to play on a wing today. That will enable him to kick inside fifty. So we need Q to move to and so on.........We have drafted so many players in recent years with both kicking ability and pace and footy smarts. If they have those skills they can obviously play multiple roles. Lots of moving the chess pieces within games.
Click to expand...
I agree. One of the reasons I like Dawson starting on a wing is that he can drop back in defence or push forward to release a cannonball deep into 50. Has all the skills to play all three roles in a game.
Stephens looks likely to be able to play both sides of mid and half forward, all competently. The big question for me is where do you put his magnet as Blakey is a similar player.
Fun times!
 

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Kiama Chris said:
I agree. One of the reasons I like Dawson starting on a wing is that he can drop back in defence or push forward to release a cannonball deep into 50. Has all the skills to play all three roles in a game.
Stephens looks likely to be able to play both sides of mid and half forward, all competently. The big question for me is where do you put his magnet as Blakey is a similar player.
Fun times!
Click to expand...
When I was writing my previous post I had Dawson in mind. If he gets released from defence then having him on one wing and the Lizard on the other you have tallish marking guys getting the ball on the wing who can quickly kick inside fifty accurately. Campbell, Heeney, Gulden, Haywood, other smalls and talls getting quick delivery. Then I woke up. hehe
 
Wow. We have 28 talented players aged 24 or under who are available to play as seniors or A-list rookies. We could put out a bloody good 22 just from this lot. 23 of them have already debuted at senior level. The 5 who haven't yet debuted are marked with an *. Gould, Campbell and McDonald could probably expect to debut this year, so that's at least 26 to choose from for 2021. Even more awesome is almost a third of those 26 are first round draft picks (denoted by ^).

When these guys are all around their peaks in maybe 5 years time, led by captains Heeney, Mills and Hewett, they'll have another another 2000 or so games worth of experience, including many finals. Have no doubts about it. This is our future dynasty and we're in the box seat at its birth. These guys will grow together for years, knowing each other's styles intimately, intuitively playing the same fast moving game plan that's entrenched in their psyches and hardened in battle together. They'll play together like a well-honed orchestra and attack and defend like a single ferocious entity. They'll be unstoppable.

Have we ever had such a large and talented group of young players around the same age ?

So, anyone want a crack at putting them into a best 22 ?

Amartey 21
Bell 21
Blakey 20 ^
Campbell 18*^
Carruthers 18*
Clarke 23
Dawson 23
Florent 22^
Foot 19
Gould 19*
Gulden 18*
Hayward 21
Heeney 24^
Hewett 24
Ling 21^
McCartin 20
McDonald 18*^
Mcinerney 20
McLean 21
Melican 23
Mills 23^
O’Riordan 24
Papley 24
Ronke 22
Rowbottom 20
Stephens 19^
Warner 19
Wicks 21
 
Well with our list complete for now, I thought I'd have a go at what I'd like our round 1 team to look like.

B - Fox, McCartin, Rampe
HB - Mills, Melican, Lloyd
C - Blakey, Hewett, McInerney
HF - Dawson, Franklin, Campbell
F - Papley, McDonald, Heeney
Foll - Hickey, Rowbottom, Parker
I/C - Kennedy, Cunningham, Stephens, Florent

Emergencies - Hayward, McLean, Brand, Clarke

Depth - Ling, Reid, Ronke, O'Riordan, Sinclair, Wicks, Gulden (included him as depth, not youth, as the academy background tends to make these boys more ready for senior footy.)
Youth - Warner, Gould, O'Connor, Amartey, Sheather, Malachy

Went with the one ruck being Hickey, as I just don't think Sinclair offers enough forward, and personally think between Heeney & Dawson who I like forward of centre, we have enough marking targets there now. I'm obviously not expecting much immediately from McDonald, but he's definitely worth playing above Reid, who was poor this year.

Hayward gets the boot on account of really not showing much the last two seasons, with Campbell filling his spot. (This is subject to change if Hayward has a big pre-season and Campbell needs to be eased into it more.) Florent is also player 22 for mine, as I'd argue Stephens, Blakey and McInerney had all overtaken him and shown more towards the end of the 2020 season.

The main midfield trio becomes Parker, Rowbottom and Hewett, who plays as a pure ball-winner. We have a surplus of quality outside guys as mentioned above, we need to start winning it out of the centre and supplying them, so IMO we can't afford a tagger at our centre bounces. And hopefully this trio will see us start to phase out JPK, which has to happen though we may try to deny it.

Brand and Clarke miss out, while not doing a lot wrong. We simply have better options in their roles until proven otherwise. And a few highly-fancied youngsters, particularly Warner and Gould, who will hopefully press for selection throughout the year.
 
Last edited:
bungee said:
Wow. We have 28 talented players aged 24 or under who are available to play as seniors or A-list rookies. We could put out a bloody good 22 just from this lot. 23 of them have already debuted at senior level. The 5 who haven't yet debuted are marked with an *. Gould, Campbell and McDonald could probably expect to debut this year, so that's at least 26 to choose from for 2021. Even more awesome is almost a third of those 26 are first round draft picks (denoted by ^).

When these guys are all around their peaks in maybe 5 years time, led by captains Heeney, Mills and Hewett, they'll have another another 2000 or so games worth of experience, including many finals. Have no doubts about it. This is our future dynasty and we're in the box seat at its birth. These guys will grow together for years, knowing each other's styles intimately, intuitively playing the same fast moving game plan that's entrenched in their psyches and hardened in battle together. They'll play together like a well-honed orchestra and attack and defend like a single ferocious entity. They'll be unstoppable.

Have we ever had such a large and talented group of young players around the same age ?

So, anyone want a crack at putting them into a best 22 ?

Amartey 21
Bell 21
Blakey 20 ^
Campbell 18*^
Carruthers 18*
Clarke 23
Dawson 23
Florent 22^
Foot 19
Gould 19*
Gulden 18*
Hayward 21
Heeney 24^
Hewett 24
Ling 21^
McCartin 20
McDonald 18*^
Mcinerney 20
McLean 21
Melican 23
Mills 23^
O’Riordan 24
Papley 24
Ronke 22
Rowbottom 20
Stephens 19^
Warner 19
Wicks 21
Click to expand...
FB: Mills - Melican - Ling
HB: Dawson - McCartin - Gould
C: Stephens - Rowbottom - McInerney
HF: Campbell - Heeney - Blakey
FF: Papley - McDonald - Hayward
Foll: McLean - Hewett - Florent
I/C: Gulden - O'Riordan - Clarke - Wicks

EMG: Amartey, Ronke, Foot, Carruthers, Bell, Warner

Very solid base to build around. Heeney at CHF and McLean rucking obviously not ideal, but oof at that half forward line.
 
SSwans2011 said:
FB: Mills - Melican - Ling
HB: Dawson - McCartin - Gould
C: Stephens - Rowbottom - McInerney
HF: Campbell - Heeney - Blakey
FF: Papley - McDonald - Hayward
Foll: McLean - Hewett - Florent
I/C: Gulden - O'Riordan - Clarke - Wicks

EMG: Amartey, Ronke, Foot, Carruthers, Bell, Warner

Very solid base to build around.
Click to expand...
Foot got the boot
 
SSwans2011 said:
FB: Mills - Melican - Ling
HB: Dawson - McCartin - Gould
C: Stephens - Rowbottom - McInerney
HF: Campbell - Heeney - Blakey
FF: Papley - McDonald - Hayward
Foll: McLean - Hewett - Florent
I/C: Gulden - O'Riordan - Clarke - Wicks

EMG: Amartey, Ronke, Foot, Carruthers, Bell, Warner

Very solid base to build around. Heeney at CHF and McLean rucking obviously not ideal, but oof at that half forward line.
Click to expand...
Can’t see Hewett getting a game.
 
SSwans2011 said:
FB: Mills - Melican - Ling
HB: Dawson - McCartin - Gould
C: Stephens - Rowbottom - McInerney
HF: Campbell - Heeney - Blakey
FF: Papley - McDonald - Hayward
Foll: McLean - Hewett - Florent
I/C: Gulden - O'Riordan - Clarke - Wicks

EMG: Amartey, Ronke, Foot, Carruthers, Bell, Warner

Very solid base to build around. Heeney at CHF and McLean rucking obviously not ideal, but oof at that half forward line.
Click to expand...
Have to disagree quite a bit with this suggested team.
Cunningham ran 5th in the Skilton as a BP.
Lloyd won the Skilton as a small defender/distributor.
Rampe is still pretty useful.
All of these will play if fit.
Gould yet to debut.
Buddy could possibly hold down the CHF spot if fit.
Reid is still a better player than McDonald will be initially and probably cut out ruck.
McLean is a forward/ruck, not a first ruck.
We brought in Hickey for first ruck or to back up Sinclair.
Rd 1 will look a fair bit different to that I think.
 

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Kiama Chris said:
Have to disagree quite a bit with this suggested team.
Cunningham ran 5th in the Skilton as a BP.
Lloyd won the Skilton as a small defender/distributor.
Rampe is still pretty useful.
All of these will play if fit.
Gould yet to debut.
Buddy could possibly hold down the CHF spot if fit.
Reid is still a better player than McDonald will be initially and probably cut out ruck.
McLean is a forward/ruck, not a first ruck.
We brought in Hickey for first ruck or to back up Sinclair.
Rd 1 will look a fair bit different to that I think.
Click to expand...
Hahaha, read the post I was responding to.
 
caesar88 said:
Well with our list complete for now, I thought I'd have a go at what I'd like our round 1 team to look like.

B - Fox, McCartin, Rampe
HB - Mills, Melican, Lloyd
C - Blakey, Hewett, McInerney
HF - Dawson, Franklin, Campbell
F - Papley, McDonald, Heeney
Foll - Hickey, Rowbottom, Parker
I/C - Kennedy, Cunningham, Stephens, Florent

Emergencies - Hayward, Sinclair, Brand, Clarke

Depth - Ling, Reid, Ronke, O'Riordan, McLean, Wicks, Gulden (included him as depth, not youth, as the academy background tends to make these boys more ready for senior footy.)
Youth - Warner, Gould, O'Connor, Amartey, Sheather, Malachy

Went with the one ruck being Hickey, as I just don't think Sinclair offers enough forward, and personally think between Heeney & Dawson who I like forward of centre, we have enough marking targets there now. I'm obviously not expecting much immediately from McDonald, but he's definitely worth playing above Reid, who was poor this year.

Hayward gets the boot on account of really not showing much the last two seasons, with Campbell filling his spot. (This is subject to change if Hayward has a big pre-season and Campbell needs to be eased into it more.) Florent is also player 22 for mine, as I'd argue Stephens, Blakey and McInerney had all overtaken him and shown more towards the end of the 2020 season.

The main midfield trio becomes Parker, Rowbottom and Hewett, who plays as a pure ball-winner. We have a surplus of quality outside guys as mentioned above, we need to start winning it out of the centre and supplying them, so IMO we can't afford a tagger at our centre bounces. And hopefully this trio will see us start to phase out JPK, which has to happen though we may try to deny it.

Brand and Clarke miss out, while not doing a lot wrong. We simply have better options in their roles until proven otherwise. And a few highly-fancied youngsters, particularly Warner and Gould, who will hopefully press for selection throughout the year.
Click to expand...
We're pretty much on the same page. Exceptions:
Swap Harry in and Fox to interchange.
Swap Melican and McCartin. McCartin is more mobile and better suited to CHB.
Same 7 players though.
Swap McInerney to FP, Heeney to HFF and Dawson to wing.
Same 3 players.
Don't throw McDonald in too early. Start out with Reid and use McDonald when someone gets injured, preferably as the third forward where he isn't marked by a monster such as Steven May. Build his confidence.
I like Wicks as a defensive forward to mark their version of Lloyd. Hayward did a bit of that too. They would be competing sgainst Campbell and McInerney, or alternatively Florent and run McInerney on the wing in rotations.
Reckon the first round will look a lot like this, allowing for injuries.
The Academy kids have a head start having lived in our system for years.
 
Kiama Chris said:
We're pretty much on the same page. Exceptions:
Swap Harry in and Fox to interchange.
Swap Melican and McCartin. McCartin is more mobile and better suited to CHB.
Same 7 players though.
Swap McInerney to FP, Heeney to HFF and Dawson to wing.
Same 3 players.
Don't throw McDonald in too early. Start out with Reid and use McDonald when someone gets injured, preferably as the third forward where he isn't marked by a monster such as Steven May. Build his confidence.
I like Wicks as a defensive forward to mark their version of Lloyd. Hayward did a bit of that too. They would be competing sgainst Campbell and McInerney, or alternatively Florent and run McInerney on the wing in rotations.
Reckon the first round will look a lot like this, allowing for injuries.
The Academy kids have a head start having lived in our system for years.
Click to expand...

Harry and Fox are much the same, only reason I had Fox as a starting defender is because I think he's more likely to have a set lockdown job, whereas Cunningham is a bit more flexible.

Melican and McCartin I don't quite see that. I think Melican is more mobile, while McCartin is the stronger unit. He reminded me of Reg in the last month or so of the season.

I wouldn't have McInerney in a forward pocket. He's either wing or bust for me. Dawson I only have at HFF because I like the idea of him and Heeney taking a flank each. Bit of a double-headed snake for opposition to deal with.

I'd back McDonald in. It's not like we're up to our eyeballs in decent key forwards. Would give him a chance to learn the hard way, similar to Ben King at the Suns, who played 14 games in his first season and was all the better for it in his second season. I've given up on Reid, not that I ever rated him.

You are right about our academy kids. One thing I didn't take into account was that Gulden's endurance is significantly better than Campbell's at this point, so maybe I'd switch Campbell out for Gulden in his place, even though Campbell is the kid I want to see most next year.
 
caesar88 said:
Melican and McCartin I don't quite see that. I think Melican is more mobile, while McCartin is the stronger unit. He reminded me of Reg in the last month or so of the season.
Click to expand...

McCartin is a time trial beast - quicker, smarter and with more endurance.
 
caesar88 said:
Harry and Fox are much the same, only reason I had Fox as a starting defender is because I think he's more likely to have a set lockdown job, whereas Cunningham is a bit more flexible.

Melican and McCartin I don't quite see that. I think Melican is more mobile, while McCartin is the stronger unit. He reminded me of Reg in the last month or so of the season.

I wouldn't have McInerney in a forward pocket. He's either wing or bust for me. Dawson I only have at HFF because I like the idea of him and Heeney taking a flank each. Bit of a double-headed snake for opposition to deal with.

I'd back McDonald in. It's not like we're up to our eyeballs in decent key forwards. Would give him a chance to learn the hard way, similar to Ben King at the Suns, who played 14 games in his first season and was all the better for it in his second season. I've given up on Reid, not that I ever rated him.

You are right about our academy kids. One thing I didn't take into account was that Gulden's endurance is significantly better than Campbell's at this point, so maybe I'd switch Campbell out for Gulden in his place, even though Campbell is the kid I want to see most next year.
Click to expand...
I've seen a few say that Gulden may be the better long term proposition than Campbell, particularly as a mid or small forward. My crystal ball isnt that good so I tend to go with the recruiters.
Reckon Horse has always tried to ensure that the kids are well prepared to debut. A lot depends on their position. Tom McCartin did OK with an early start, but not really better than OK, and it was through necessity. Just hitting his straps now after 2 seasons. McDonald will benefit I think from a more measured introduction if possible. Get him used to the patterns etc in the VFL for a while. Don't use him in the ruck FFS!
I've said elsewhere that I like Dawson on a wing because he can drop back or move up as the game situation demands and do all three roles effectively.
Heeney or Blakey back is a desperation ploy.
I think our game set up has at least one HFF playing high, almost to the wing, and delivering in. Certainly either Blakey or Heeney can play that way, or further forward.
I think McInerney can work into the rotations from wing to FP and deliver value. He is very disciplined at being in the right places c.f. his first goal from Papley's pass was a gem of positioning. He stopped and his marker kept running. Pretty to watch.
I also hope that Gould seriously challenges for a spot and overtakes COR and Fox, or even Melican.
Looking forward to the year ahead but I suspect we can expect Horse to hasten slowly.
 
Imo McDonald and Campbell will play very early on.

Also can't see playing 2 rucks with a maybe forward line of Reid and buddy (if gets up ) , plus McDonald. Just won't happen. Ball will walk out again. Horse loves Reid so can't see him in the 2s and imo McDonald plays even with Reid and buddy.

Mccartin will now be our chb all aus to come. No way goes forward.

Still think they will like to play Dawson as a somewhat ball distributer from the back half and a floater intercepter.

Would like to see Rampe play a 16 role but with Mccartin and Melican still learning he might have to still take the big guys at stages.

Florent and Hayward are going have to step up otherwise they will be running around in the 2s.

Imo Blakey will play mostly mid/Hf this year.

McInerney on one wing

Gould is the one I think will cement a spot by years end , maybe fox role
 
Kiama Chris said:
I've seen a few say that Gulden may be the better long term proposition than Campbell, particularly as a mid or small forward. My crystal ball isnt that good so I tend to go with the recruiters.
Reckon Horse has always tried to ensure that the kids are well prepared to debut. A lot depends on their position. Tom McCartin did OK with an early start, but not really better than OK, and it was through necessity. Just hitting his straps now after 2 seasons. McDonald will benefit I think from a more measured introduction if possible. Get him used to the patterns etc in the VFL for a while. Don't use him in the ruck FFS!
I've said elsewhere that I like Dawson on a wing because he can drop back or move up as the game situation demands and do all three roles effectively.
Heeney or Blakey back is a desperation ploy.
I think our game set up has at least one HFF playing high, almost to the wing, and delivering in. Certainly either Blakey or Heeney can play that way, or further forward.
I think McInerney can work into the rotations from wing to FP and deliver value. He is very disciplined at being in the right places c.f. his first goal from Papley's pass was a gem of positioning. He stopped and his marker kept running. Pretty to watch.
I also hope that Gould seriously challenges for a spot and overtakes COR and Fox, or even Melican.
Looking forward to the year ahead but I suspect we can expect Horse to hasten slowly.
Click to expand...

Who knows with Campbell and Gulden. I think Gulden has shown more thus far, but Campbell has more upside. I personally am not fussed who is the better player, as long as they are both good.

The Dawson/Heeney/Blakey trifecta is a weird one, because their roles sort of overlap. Heeney is the marking forward that it would be better if Blakey was (at 195cm); Blakey is the inside 50 deliverer that it would be better if Heeney was (the midfielder-sized player); Dawson is the half-back who has at times looked as good as Heeney & Blakey when playing forward. It's a real conundrum of what to do with them all. They are just a number of players we have between the arcs who I think we're going to struggle to fit in - Stephens, Florent, McInerney, Campbell and Gulden others.

There will be a lot of switching of roles and positions. I'm apprehensive as to how well it will serve them all in terms of them reaching their potential. The one youngster who I think will sleep most soundly of them all on any given week is Rowbottom.

I don't envy the challenge Horse will face in trying to slot all of these guys in in their most suited roles.
 
Kiama Chris said:
I've seen a few say that Gulden may be the better long term proposition than Campbell, particularly as a mid or small forward. My crystal ball isnt that good so I tend to go with the recruiters.
Reckon Horse has always tried to ensure that the kids are well prepared to debut. A lot depends on their position. Tom McCartin did OK with an early start, but not really better than OK, and it was through necessity. Just hitting his straps now after 2 seasons. McDonald will benefit I think from a more measured introduction if possible. Get him used to the patterns etc in the VFL for a while. Don't use him in the ruck FFS!
I've said elsewhere that I like Dawson on a wing because he can drop back or move up as the game situation demands and do all three roles effectively.
Heeney or Blakey back is a desperation ploy.
I think our game set up has at least one HFF playing high, almost to the wing, and delivering in. Certainly either Blakey or Heeney can play that way, or further forward.
I think McInerney can work into the rotations from wing to FP and deliver value. He is very disciplined at being in the right places c.f. his first goal from Papley's pass was a gem of positioning. He stopped and his marker kept running. Pretty to watch.
I also hope that Gould seriously challenges for a spot and overtakes COR and Fox, or even Melican.
Looking forward to the year ahead but I suspect we can expect Horse to hasten slowly.
Click to expand...

Good summation. Even in his first game for which he was lambasted, McInerney made position umpteen times but was ignored. Went back to the 2s and did well inc inside contests. Hope his development continues as he has a number of strings to his talent bow.
 
Punts said:
Campbell will be elite , all the trade marks imo
Click to expand...

I've only seen highlights of course, but the way he strikes the ball and how smoothly the ball comes off his boot reminds me of Daniel Rich and Brodie Smith. Real crisp.
 
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