Player Watch 2022 AFL National Draft Discussion - read the pinned post

[Strapping Young Lad]

National AFL draft Monday November 28(first round only).
All other selections to be held on Tuesday November 29.
The pre-season and rookie drafts will then take place at 3pm (AEST) on Wednesday November 30.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Every ‘generational talent’ of the last decade or more has never been remotely close to what was promised and the number 1 pick in the draft is rarely the best player in that draft as time goes on. I don’t care how good Reid looks playing against kids his own age, tanking does irreparable damage to team culture that would take the better part of Reid’s career to remedy.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Every ‘generational talent’ of the last decade or more has never been remotely close to what was promised and the number 1 pick in the draft is rarely the best player in that draft as time goes on. I don’t care how good Reid looks playing against kids his own age, tanking does irreparable damage to team culture that would take the better part of Reid’s career to remedy.

Mate, he played as a 17yr old in the Champs, and was braining top age guys about to be drafted. They moved him to full forward and he nearly won Vic Country the game late.

He could play AFL tomorrow. He’s going to be one of the best kids we’ve seen in the last 15 years.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Mate, he played as a 17yr old in the Champs, and was braining top age guys about to be drafted. They moved him to full forward and he nearly won Vic Country the game late.

He could play AFL tomorrow. He’s going to be one of the best kids we’ve seen in the last 15 years.

None of that changes what I said about the damage deliberately tanking and instilling a losing culture in a club does. Not doubting he’s a gun kid - but if you tank for him and he does a career-impacting ACL his first pre-season then what? If we end up finishing last and are able to get him - okay great. To do so deliberately - **** that.

Also JHF was supposedly worth tanking for and was doing bloody well in the SANFL against grown men at 17 - we all know how that one ended. Yes, yes it was Norf etc - but it’s proof that nothing in life is a guarantee.

 

[theiaofseed]

None of that changes what I said about the damage deliberately tanking and instilling a losing culture in a club does. Not doubting he’s a gun kid - but if you tank for him and he does an ACL his first pre-season then what? If we end up finishing last and are able to get him - okay great. To do so deliberately - * that.

Also JHF was supposedly worth tanking for and was doing bloody well in the SANFL against grown men at 17 - we all know how that one ended. Yes, yes it was Norf etc - but it’s prooof that nothing in life is a guarantee.

He wasn't though hardly ever got over 20 touches and only once got 5 clearances. Reid is something

 

[H00t]

Mate, he played as a 17yr old in the Champs, and was braining top age guys about to be drafted. They moved him to full forward and he nearly won Vic Country the game late.

He could play AFL tomorrow. He’s going to be one of the best kids we’ve seen in the last 15 years.

We will be hard pressed to see any young kid come on and dominate they way Rowell did in his first 4 games.

But I reckon if any player could do it. Reid could. It’s scary to think what he will do to kids next year. Hopefully he gets a few VFL games in.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

He wasn't though hardly ever got over 20 touches and only once got 5 clearances. Reid is something

Had 18 contested possessions (24 overall), 11 clearances, 10 score involvements and 3 goals in the SANFL prelim last year.

 

[Bugs1977]

None of that changes what I said about the damage deliberately tanking and instilling a losing culture in a club does. Not doubting he’s a gun kid - but if you tank for him and he does an ACL his first pre-season then what? If we end up finishing last and are able to get him - okay great. To do so deliberately - * that.

Also JHF was supposedly worth tanking for and was doing bloody well in the SANFL against grown men at 17 - we all know how that one ended. Yes, yes it was Norf etc - but it’s prooof that nothing in life is a guarantee.

I agree about not doing it on purpose (tanking) but I don't think we're going to have that problem come the 2023 season. We've pretty much stripped the team bare of 2 of our most senior mids (Tom + JOM) and most senior forward in Gunston so I think it's safe to say barring some sort of a miracle we'll be close to the bottom 3 (bottom 5 at best). This is not because I think we're sh*t but rather that we will lack the depth throughout the season to finish off games. Anyways if we end up getting a draw that is tough early on then tanking on purpose likely won't be necessary because we'll be punching above our weight most weeks. I could be wrong and we start out 5-0 but if ever there was a season to not be able to win too many then this is the season.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I agree about not doing it on purpose (tanking) but I don't think we're going to have that problem come the 2023 season. We've pretty much stripped the team bare of 2 of our most senior mids (Tom + JOM) and most senior forward in Gunston so I think it's safe to say barring some sort of a miracle we'll be close to the bottom 3 (bottom 5 at best). This is not because I think we're sh*t but rather that we will lack the depth throughout the season to finish off games. Anyways if we end up getting a draw that is tough early on then tanking on purpose likely won't be necessary because we'll be punching above our weight most weeks. I could be wrong and we start out 5-0 but if ever there was a season to not be able to win too many then this is the season.

I have no doubt we’ll be facing another season in the bottom third of the ladder - but I’m of the opinion that losing Mitchell and O’Meara won’t be that detrimental in the short term. I could be wrong but it’s not worrying to me. And to me losing games because you’ve got a young side trying to win games but just not quite getting the job done isn’t tanking - it’s genuine rebuilding. Tanking is what Melbourne and Carlton did by outwardly, obviously and deliberately trying to not win games - I could never abide that and I would be pretty furious if I was paying to attend matches where the intent was to lose.

If we are just not good enough next year and finish bottom and get Reid as a result - that’s a nice silver lining. But going out of our way to do it would be problematic for mine.

 

[Bugs1977]

I have no doubt we’ll be facing another season in the bottom third of the ladder - but I’m of the opinion that losing Mitchell and O’Meara won’t be that detrimental in the short term. I could be wrong but it’s not worrying to me. And to me losing games because you’ve got a young side trying to win games but just not quite getting the job done isn’t tanking - it’s genuine rebuilding. Tanking is what Melbourne and Carlton did by outwardly, obviously and deliberately trying to not win games - I could never abide that and I would be pretty furious if I was paying to attend matches where the intent was to lose.

If we are just not good enough next year and finish bottom and get Reid as a result - that’s a nice silver lining. But going out of our way to do it would be problematic for mine.

I would think the majority of Hawk fans feel the same way and yes losing on purpose never has amounted to nothing in almost every scenario sport you can think about where getting a good draft pick being the prize. Case in point in the AFL with Carlton, Melbourne + North and in the NBA with the 76ers. The poor culture within those teams never really leaves and the players all know full well what is going on. In our case I truly feel we just won't be able to finish off games due to having so many young inexperienced kids. Like always we'll probably end up winning a couple that no one sees coming but I guess we'll know more with where the list is at after the upcoming draft.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I would think the majority of Hawk fans feel the same way and yes losing on purpose never has amounted to nothing in almost every scenario sport you can think about where getting a good draft pick being the prize. Case in point in the AFL with Carlton, Melbourne + North and in the NBA with the 76ers. The poor culture within those teams never really leaves and the players all know full well what is going on. In our case I truly feel we just won't be able to finish off games due to having so many young inexperienced kids. Like always we'll probably end up winning a couple that no one sees coming but I guess we'll know more with where the list is at after the upcoming draft.

76ers are a good example. ‘Trust the process’ - yup and that process yielded one MVP-caliber player that stuck around, an absolute headcase (* supporter - says it all) and two busts, one of which isn’t even in the NBA any more. Subsequently they’ve never even made the conference finals. Years of genuine tanking and for what - early playoff exits. Contrast that with the Celtics who rebuilt shrewdly - cashed in ageing veterans for picks and nailed it with Brown, Tatum and Smart. They’ve subsequently vastly outperformed the 76ers and have made the ECF 4 times in that period and made the NBA Finals last season.

Rebuilding while trying to win and instill a winning culture will always beat deliberately tanking in the hope that the best kid in the draft will magically lead you to the promised land.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I agree about not doing it on purpose (tanking) but I don't think we're going to have that problem come the 2023 season. We've pretty much stripped the team bare of 2 of our most senior mids (Tom + JOM) and most senior forward in Gunston so I think it's safe to say barring some sort of a miracle we'll be close to the bottom 3 (bottom 5 at best). This is not because I think we're sh*t but rather that we will lack the depth throughout the season to finish off games. Anyways if we end up getting a draw that is tough early on then tanking on purpose likely won't be necessary because we'll be punching above our weight most weeks. I could be wrong and we start out 5-0 but if ever there was a season to not be able to win too many then this is the season.

Yeah we won't need to deliberately tank in order to finish near the bottom of the ladder again. I suspect we will have a top 4/5 pick come this time next year.

 

[FB19]

I have no doubt we’ll be facing another season in the bottom third of the ladder - but I’m of the opinion that losing Mitchell and O’Meara won’t be that detrimental in the short term. I could be wrong but it’s not worrying to me. And to me losing games because you’ve got a young side trying to win games but just not quite getting the job done isn’t tanking - it’s genuine rebuilding. Tanking is what Melbourne and Carlton did by outwardly, obviously and deliberately trying to not win games - I could never abide that and I would be pretty furious if I was paying to attend matches where the intent was to lose.

If we are just not good enough next year and finish bottom and get Reid as a result - that’s a nice silver lining. But going out of our way to do it would be problematic for mine.

Agree I’ve never said we should tank but it’s likely we don’t go well and that’s fine looking to be competitive and see effort and growth and hopefully some unexpected nice surprises in players leaping forward like DMoore did. Let’s agree next year we need a Reid in our midst hopefully Harley but would settle for Archer.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Had 18 contested possessions (24 overall), 11 clearances, 10 score involvements and 3 goals in the SANFL prelim last year.

I don't know how anyone has forgotten about that game - it was an insane performance.

 

[kirbatron]

We are never going to tank & the inference is boring & insulting to SM.

What will make it hard is injuries. If our prime movers go down we are a massive chance for bottom even with our best efforts.

Love Reid, but there will also be some other exquisite talent next year

 

[eldorado]

All this conversation about tanking in 2023 in a thread about the 2022 draft crop.

All started by one pea-hearted individual.

As far as I'm concerned, posts wanting us to tank to finish last (before the season has even started, mind!) are up there with posts hoping for injuries to players. Instant deletion.

If you think the purpose of football is to finish as low as possible for a better pick, go follow another team or board.

 

[JZedd]

Sorry fellow Hawks but I think if Mitch Lewis stays fit for around 18 to 20 games we won't be anywhere near the wooden spoon.
Anyway, I agree that tanking will have a terrible flow on effect on our playing group.

 

[theiaofseed]

Sorry fellow Hawks but I think if Mitch Lewis stays fit for around 18 to 20 games we won't be anywhere near the wooden spoon.
Anyway, I agree that tanking will have a terrible flow on effect on our playing group.

Delisted FA period start tomorrow, players already cut would've been already.

Edit ~ quoted the wrong post.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Delisted FA period start tomorrow, players already cut would've been already.

I think you skipped over the word 'fit' there.

 

[HawthornHawk]

 

[HODGEYROAD]

We won't be tanking people relax, we'll just finish pretty low despite our best efforts due to being a pretty ordinary football team as things stand.

 

[Linda CRS]

The Hawks have always said that they take the best available with an early draft pick so if Tsatas slipped to our pick I am sure we would take him if our recruiting team rated him best available. We need elite talent in the midfield so it would appear a no brainer.

Hope so, really like him but I could talk myself into any potential midfielder to improve our midfield depth based on draft videos. A-Grader please……

 

[HawthornHawk]

We won't be tanking people relax, we'll just finish pretty low despite our best efforts due to being a pretty ordinary football team as things stand.

2023 will be a year of 'organic tanking' and I fail to see how anyone can see it any other way

 

[arupist]

2023 will be a year of 'organic tanking' and I fail to see how anyone can see it any other way

I honestly haven't got a clue what you mean by any of that.

 

[marhalls hawks]

I honestly haven't got a clue what you mean by any of that.

No Tom Mitchell no Jaeger O’Meara no Jack Gunstan no Ben McEvoy = Harley Reid

 

[HODGEYROAD]

2023 will be a year of 'organic tanking' and I fail to see how anyone can see it any other way

I assume that means something along the lines of we'll lose majority of the matches despite giving our best efforts due to the fact we're just so raw lacking experience and a fair degree of talent.