2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

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HODGEYROAD said:
Age is just a number when the kids are extremely talented, but pointless comparing it to the under 25 crop we had in 2008.
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Put this quickly together comparing our kids in 2008 vs the batch we have now. I'm absolutely not comparing the players on the right to their peers by the end of their careers - but the promise they're both showing at the start.

What's obvious to me from this is that we're definitely heading in the right direction - with some gaping holes. Getting those two quality bulls to replace our 2023 version of Mitchell and Hodge is paramount - and clearly the direction we're heading now. I should add, we're also prob one KPF short of where we need to be to contend.

PlayerAgePlayer Age
Roughead21Lewis23
Lewis22Ward19
Mitchell26--
Rioli19Moore23
Birchall21Scrimshaw24
Buddy21--
--DGB20
Hodge24--
--Jiath22
 
Stottzy said:
I would argue though you need to start with getting the best and a backbone, then start worrying about ya role players.
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Sure, you don’t avoid the best you can get. But, in the theory, that “best” needs to be players who are committed to playing together. I think that’s where Mitchell is placing his priority.
 

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Buddy said:
Put this quickly together comparing our kids in 2008 vs the batch we have now. I'm absolutely not comparing the players on the right to their peers by the end of their careers - but the promise they're both showing at the start.

What's obvious to me from this is that we're definitely heading in the right direction - with some gaping holes. Getting those two quality bulls to replace our 2023 version of Mitchell and Hodge is paramount - and clearly the direction we're heading now. I should add, we're also prob one KPF short of where we need to be to contend.

PlayerAgePlayerAge
Roughead21Lewis23
Lewis22Ward19
Mitchell26--
Rioli19Moore23
Birchall21Scrimshaw24
Buddy21--
--DGB20
Hodge24--
--Jiath22
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Following the blueprint of what is basically a golden generation of talent for this club is impossible, but it's an interesting look even if I'm afraid it comes off as quite brutal. Bunch of kids that are generally older and still don't look anywhere near as special. Even counting Dew, Sewell, Willo, Croad and Guerra that group was good enough to beat the "greatest team of all time" without much of a supporting cast, especially not by the three peat standards. And yet this team wasn't far off bottom 4 again, with some seasoned players like Gunston, Breust, Mitchell, Sicily around them. O'Meara probably slightly worse than a 34 year old Crawf so I'm not counting him in all fairness.

If we try and build a decentish core first rather than an "elite" one and figure it out later, we basically have to hope there are no top teams that emerge and start to dominate the competition because we will never catch up to any of the teams full of stars that generally define AFL eras. Even just building that core will take years so we aren't in a position to predict anything like that, I don't see the argument for not bottoming out anymore and I hate to say it. But I'm probably a bit pessimistic these days.
 
Massive gamble to ditch so much experience with an already young list. Not sure which way this will go, and it'll probably be a number of years until we have an answer. I admire Mitchell for rolling the dice if nothing else.

Of course this latest trade also shines a spotlight on how utterly disastrous our trade for JOM was, something I very correctly pointed out at the time despite a number of posters here (mods included) attempting to stick their heads in the sand and pretend otherwise. Anyone with half a brain could see GC bent us over a barrel on that one. Wingard deal wasn't much better.

Oh well, onwards & upwards.
 
WatWouldCyrilDo said:
So how may list spots do we have open now?
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6 spaces.

We started with + 1 x list space more than required due to the MSD (and placements on the long term injury list).

We have then had 7 x retirements / delistings (McEvoy, Sheils, Howe, Downie, Phillips, Callow, Hartigan), then 1 x addition with Amon as a confirmed in, then 3 x exits of Gunston, Mitchell, and O'Meara.

This means the list situation is:
+1, -7, +1, -3 = -8 list spaces from what is permissible.

We then brought in Meek and Stephens (2), leaving us as -6 on list spaces.

I dare say that we will want to retain at least 1-2 list spots for the PSD/MSD, leaving 4-5 spots for the National and Rookie drafts.
 
HappyHawk_1 said:
6 spaces.

We started with + 1 x list space more than required due to the MSD (and placements on the long term injury list).

We have then had 7 x retirements / delistings (McEvoy, Sheils, Howe, Downie, Phillips, Callow, Hartigan), then 1 x addition with Amon as a confirmed in, then 3 x exits of Gunston, Mitchell, and O'Meara.

This means the list situation is:
+1, -7, +1, -3 = -8 list spaces from what is permissible.

We then brought in Meek and Stephens (2), leaving us as -6 on list spaces.

I dare say that we will want to retain at least 1-2 list spots for the PSD/MSD, leaving 4-5 spots for the National and Rookie drafts.
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Surely we go after a DFA.. maybe stocker. Our picks in the ND are crap after 24 in a thin draft... wouldn't be going for 5 in this one
 
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It feels like Mitch is confident that we've got a good enough backline to protect us against utter smashings next year. I agree with his apparent assessment on our midfield but am a bit concerned about our lack of leadership in there. I wonder if Pup would've gone on for one more year if we knew we were going to cut this deep.
 

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I really hope that Sam’s intention is to play Wingard predominantly through the midfield next year. His experience will be important now and he’s played bloody good footy with us in the middle. Spare me the snipes about his injury history - let’s envisage Chad getting a good run at it.
 
Ned Ryerson said:
I really hope that Sam’s intention is to play Wingard predominantly through the midfield next year. His experience will be important now and he’s played bloody good footy with us in the middle. Spare me the snipes about his injury history - let’s envisage Chad getting a good run at it.
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I reckon he'll have Moore in the middle and Chad making it possible tbh.
 
Perko2017 said:
Let's pick up Selwood in the draft and play him as a forward. Gives experience and certainly a role model. Hey, Hodge made it work.
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Sarah should you be drinking this hard when you’ve got a game this weekend?
 
KermitJagger said:
I reckon he'll have Moore in the middle and Chad making it possible tbh.
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McKenzie mentioned Day tonight will play more midfield next year.
 
KermitJagger said:
I reckon he'll have Moore in the middle and Chad making it possible tbh.
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I’d love both in the middle to be honest - hopefully Brockman can slot in up forward if he’s good to go.
 
Ned Ryerson said:
I really hope that Sam’s intention is to play Wingard predominantly through the midfield next year. His experience will be important now and he’s played bloody good footy with us in the middle. Spare me the snipes about his injury history - let’s envisage Chad getting a good run at it.
Click to expand...
A fit Chad definitely gets midfield minutes.
 
Take 1 DFA, 3 in the draft, 1 I’m PSD and 1 for MSD next year. Latter will be important if we don’t start off well. No doubt our fixture will be horrible!
 
Strategy

Next year trade for both Caleb Serong and Noah Anderson.
Both out of contract end of 2023.
Make them long term offers they can’t refuse.
Bring back Serong to play with brother.
Bring back Anderson to play with father’s old club - (I know he followed Tigers as a kid).
Trade 2023 draft pick 1-8 + steak knives for Noah Anderson.
Trade out a combination of Grainger-Barass, Brockman and/or picks for Serong.
Both players are out of contract , Victorian Private School kids and can control destination.
Hawthorn will probably be bottom half and should be able to satisfy trades to Gold Coast and Fremantle.
Plenty of cap space from moving on big contracts of Gunston, Mitchell, O’Meara and McEvoy.
Sign a a decent free agent based on positional need.

Midfield 2024

Player Age, Height, Position
Noah Anderson 23, 192cm, Mid
Caleb Serong 23, 179cm, Mid
Cooper Stephens 23, 188cm, Mid
Elijah Tsatas 20 187 cm Mid
Jai Newcombe 23 186 cm Mid
Josh Ward 21 183 cm Mid
James Worpel 25 186 cm Mid
Dylan Moore 25 178 cm Mid/Forward
Sam Bulter 21 184 cm Mid/Forward
Connor MacDonald 21 185 cm Mid/Forward
Connor Nash 26 197 cm Mid/Utility

Suddenly that midfield looks like the right age profile, a lot stronger and a lot quicker from 2024 onwards.

With Tom Mitchell gone perhaps James Worpel can regain his 2019 form.
 
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