Preview 2022 Rd 4 Carlton vs Gold Coast Sunday 10th April 4.10PM @ Metricon Stadium

[NavySteel]

How do we beat the suns?

 

[Jeremias]

How do we beat the suns?

Scoring more than them on the day should do the trick.

 

[NavySteel]

But Walsh is already doing that, per your own comments. So ditching LOB, pushing Walsh to that wing, and bringing in Dow results in one less mid getting back to support the defence.

The 19 scores from 67 entries wasn't down to the lack of another clearance mid. Our forward 50 efficiency dropped from 50% in the first two rounds to 30% this week, because we lost the ability to break the lines coming out of the defensive 50, not the ability to clear the ball from stoppages.

Saad will be a much welcomed return

 

[NavySteel]

Scoring more than them on the day should do the trick.

Tactically….

 

[Jeremias]

Tactically….

Hold them to a lower score?

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Ins: Saad Martin
Outs: Plowman Boyd

Best22: McGovern *Honey *Stocker *Dow Cunners

Best Dev/Kids: *Motlop *Carroll *Kemp *Philp *Mirkov

Reserves: Dow Motlop Fogarty Stocker Kemp Parks Williamson Newnes Akuei Mirkov Cottrell

Injuries: McGovern Carroll Marchbank Cunners Philp EdCurnow Honey McDonald Saad

 

[azlou]

How do we beat the suns?

Turn up

 

[NavySteel]

Hold them to a lower score?

Maybe we can spread the spicy cough and force them to make 15 changes and play against their under 16s?

 

[Mr_Plow]

Tactically….

Play our game and beat them. Shouldn't be too many issues, tbf.

 

[Stamos]

Ins: Saad Martin
Outs: Plowman Boyd

You only want to play 6 backs? Or Martin as a back?
And why drop Plowman?

 

[NavySteel]

Play our game and beat them. Shouldn't be too many issues, tbf.

How do we think we can counter Suns employing a similar tactic to Hawks? I’m confident the talent on paper is covered but we need to address some stuff.

How might we be more efficient in our i50? McKay and CC too good?

 

[BigFrizz36]

Good test for us. Clearly on paper we "should" win. It hasn't been in our wheelhouse to have that scenario so interesting to see if we have the maturity to do what is expected of us.

 

[Dramoth]

I didn’t notice that.

Talking to someone and pointing at his ribs in the change rooms after the game.

 

[YeahGnar]

But Walsh is already doing that, per your own comments. So ditching LOB, pushing Walsh to that wing, and bringing in Dow results in one less mid getting back to support the defence.

The 19 scores from 67 entries wasn't down to the lack of another clearance mid. Our forward 50 efficiency dropped from 50% in the first two rounds to 30% this week, because we lost the ability to break the lines coming out of the defensive 50, not the ability to clear the ball from stoppages.

That's kind of my point. We have no problem with stoppages with or without Walsh, who is our best ball user in space. Why have the guy rolling around in a pack most of the day when he's the best user once the ball comes out? Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett, Cerra and Dow can't win the ball and let him work his magic once it comes out? Cripps tries to do too much when he comes out of the pack and thinks he's the best person to have the footy in his hands, but when he sees Walsh in space he almost always gives it off. When he took that mark at HF and shit himself in the Q4, what I would have given to have Walsh waiting on the HFF in space for that next pass.

Yesterday proved that once we lost possession off our HF entries and the opposition switch then attacked us, our 4 mids were nowhere near the play once it hit their HF line. Not even Walsh. Usain Bolt wouldn't get there. Only the winger on that side was back in time to influence the result or provide an option in space if we won it back. I'm not arguing for the need of 'another clearance mid', I'm arguing for freeing up a better user for our first possession after the ball is cleared from the pack, which we will win >50% of the time.

Look, you might be absolutely right. But what I'm seeing so far is a really good Plan A from our boys. And Premierships are definitely won by teams who back thier own game and say "Try and stop us". I think our A game is enough to have an excellent season, but not enough to win it all unless we do it for 4 quarters come finals. If we develop a solid 'Plan B' for times when our system isn't ripping apart the opposition (around 50% of the time at the moment, but will improve), then we are able to change gears and maybe win some games we would otherwise lose.

You don't even need to drop LOB or Setters. If we have Walsh, LOB, Setters and Dow in the 22 then Walsh can rotate with the wingers, while Dow rotates with the other 4 mids. Walsh goes inside if we are losing the battles. Allows for tactical flexibility if we get jumped. Would you agree that if we had a cleaner ball user in space outside packs yesterday then we wouldn't have constantly tuned the ball over and even have had to chase back so much?

 

[ctwenty1]

How do we beat the suns?

By eclipsing them

 

[Mr_Plow]

How do we think we can counter Suns employing a similar tactic to Hawks? I’m confident the talent on paper is covered but we need to address some stuff.

How might we be more efficient in our i50? McKay and CC too good?

Haven't watched the Suns this year. If they play like Hawks in terms of slingshot off half-back and flood their defence when we have the ball, then I think we need to adjust our ball movement accordingly. Chip the ball around in 15-20m intervals until we are 70m out from goal, and then go for a deep entry to the hot-spot (if there are no available leads).

Bring in Jack Martin for additional forward x-factor. Forwards to actually block and stop jumping into each other.

 

[Blue__Balls]

That's kind of my point. We have no problem with stoppages with or without Walsh, who is our best ball user in space. Why have the guy rolling around in a pack most of the day when he's the best user once the ball comes out? Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett, Cerra and Dow can't win the ball and let him work his magic once it comes out? Cripps tries to do too much when he comes out of the pack and thinks he's the best person to have the footy in his hands, but when he sees Walsh in space he almost always gives it off. When he took that mark at HF and shit himself in the Q4, what I would have given to have Walsh waiting on the HFF in space for that next pass.

Yesterday proved that once we lost possession off our HF entries and the opposition switch then attacked us, our 4 mids were nowhere near the play once it hit their HF line. Not even Walsh. Usain Bolt wouldn't get there. Only the winger on that side was back in time to influence the result or provide an option in space if we won it back. I'm not arguing for the need of 'another clearance mid', I'm arguing for freeing up a better user for our first possession after the ball is cleared from the pack, which we will win >50% of the time.

Look, you might be absolutely right. But what I'm seeing so far is a really good Plan A from our boys. And Premierships are definitely won by teams who back thier own game and say "Try and stop us". I think our A game is enough to have an excellent season, but not enough to win it all unless we do it for 4 quarters come finals. If we develop a solid 'Plan B' for times when our system isn't ripping apart the opposition (around 50% of the time at the moment, but will improve), then we are able to change gears and maybe win some games we would otherwise lose.

You don't even need to drop LOB or Setters. If we have Walsh, LOB, Setters and Dow in the 22 then Walsh can rotate with the wingers, while Dow rotates with the other 4 mids. Walsh goes inside if we are posing the battles. Allows for tactical flexibility if we get jumped. Would you agree that if we had a cleaner ball user in space outside packs yesterday then we wouldn't have constantly tuned the ball over and even have had to chase back so much?

I'm not sure we're watching the same games. Walsh is already playing mostly as an outside receiver. Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy and Cerra are doing the bulk of the inside work. So if it's not one of the wings that he comes in for then I'm not sure who you'd suggest he replaces.

Dow also doesn't have a second position at the moment. You can't play him in Fisher's role because his defensive work is subpar. So if he comes in it needs to be to play the majority of his time on ground as a mid. Doing so pushes one of the four listed above out of that role when they're already doing a ripping job of it.

I'm keen for Dow to get his turn too, I simply don't trust him enough yet for that to be at the expense of guys who are getting the job done both ways. Let him toil away without reward in the ressies for a while, he's not going anywhere. At some point the penny will drop and his defensive workrate will improve, then he can be considered to replace someone like Kennedy. Or one of the starters will get injured/suspended and an opportunity will present for him to make the most of.

This is a new era for Carlton. There are gonna be guys putting up consistent performances in the reserves who still can't crack the seniors. No more "so and so was BOG for the 2's, he can replace this week's senior disappointment".

Good chat - refreshing to have some considered debate

 

[The Sultan]

any Queensland locals out there.. whats the conditions going to be like, for game time ? Hopefully not too dewy like it was last year we played suns up there..

 

[footyfan1978]

Talking to someone and pointing at his ribs in the change rooms after the game.

Russell.
Nut sure if pointing at ribs or side muscle.

 

[Blue Viking]

Instead of all of our tall forwards jumping for the one ball, maybe we should get one forward jumping for the ball or even leading to space and our other forwards blocking the oppositions defenders like the opposition seems to have little trouble doing to us. Just a wild idea but the number of clear runs at the ball by the Dawks on the weekend that were created by blocks was frustrating when up the other end we just had everybody going for it like a game of little league.

 

[footyfan1978]

Play our game and beat them. Shouldn't be too many issues, tbf.

Agreed. We at a stage where overall it just play our way and make adjustments as needed based on personnel in 22 each week.

 

[Blue Warrior]

Tactically….

Hard tag on Miller by Hewett.
Make Rowell play on Cripps the kids tough but he ain't Patty Cripps in Beast mode type extractor just yet.

One name = Saad we missed his clean ball use and run and gun off the backline he will set up 4-5 goals alone against the GC his drive is invaluable.

If Young can take Levi and nullify his weapon of big marking and Weiters take Chol.

I'd like to see Plowman out for Kemp and Kemp play as the interceptor ala McGovern.

Kid has all the tools to play as the third tall and play off his man and set up goals.

We will really miss Pittonet if he doesn't come up for the big clash with Witts but TDK and JSOS will be ok and add a different dimension to our Ruck division

and Martin takes the JSOS role as the high half forward floater who can mark and kick goals plus he adds a bit of X factor to our fwd line.

IN: Kemp,Saad,Martin

OUT: Boyd,Plowman,Pittonet(injury?)

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Setters out, Walsh to a wing and Dow in?

Fisher out, Motlop in?

Boyd, Plow out? Saad, Omac in?

^ this is the maximum amount of changes we should make IMO, Saad and Omac in for structure/better role players in respective roles and the Wing/HFF positions reward great VFL form.

Does Dow have a tank now though? Last thing we need is to be carrying more heavy legs in the 4th, he was one that often started strong (had like 13 touches in the 1st one game before finishing with ~25) but faded dramatically as the game wore on.

Below are changes I’d also consider:
Kemp? Where is Kemp? Does Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

make way eventually, or does he deserve an extended run? Wasn’t bad but wasn’t good either.

Stocker has to come in eventually, but when/where?

 

[YeahGnar]

I'm not sure we're watching the same games. Walsh is already playing mostly as an outside receiver. Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy and Cerra are doing the bulk of the inside work. So if it's not one of the wings that he comes in for then I'm not sure who you'd suggest he replaces.

Dow also doesn't have a second position at the moment. You can't play him in Fisher's role because his defensive work is subpar. So if he comes in it needs to be to play the majority of his time on ground as a mid. Doing so pushes one of the four listed above out of that role when they're already doing a ripping job of it.

I'm keen for Dow to get his turn too, I simply don't trust him enough yet for that to be at the expense of guys who are getting the job done both ways. Let him toil away without reward in the ressies for a while, he's not going anywhere. At some point the penny will drop and his defensive workrate will improve, then he can be considered to replace someone like Kennedy. Or one of the starters will get injured/suspended and an opportunity will present for him to make the most of.

This is a new era for Carlton. There are gonna be guys putting up consistent performances in the reserves who still can't crack the seniors. No more "so and so was BOG for the 2's, he can replace this week's senior disappointment".

Good chat - refreshing to have some considered debate

Yeah I agree, we are definitely trying to get Walsh out in space as the first receiver but yesterday once Hawks zerg rushed us he was always getting tackled the moment he had the ball come to him at the edge of the pack (often even before). I'm more imagining how different the game could have been if say Dow, Hewett or Cerra was that first receiver on the edge and Walsh was actually 20m away in space ready to receive and destroy. I reckon our I50s would have been more measured, and he could have used the ball more calmly and accurately. His positioning and spatial awareness is leagues ahead of LOB and Setters, so he would be able to provide the short option out of a contest more often.

What we were doing was winning the contest then hoofing it to the talls who were outnumbered every time from Q2 onwards, despite both Owies and Durdin consistently leading into space. Reckon Walsh might have been able to find those important marks from our small at 35-40m in the pockets if he had more time to think before kicking. Playing on the wing and drifting into HFF to receive would give him that time to hit those targets.

All I'm saying is its worth a go, and could prove the difference in getting past an elimination final one day if our PlanA fails (doesn't even have to be Dow, he's just the best option at the moment to bring into the gang), and no disrespect to GC but we should be trying out 'Plan B' against teams where we can lose a quarter and still go onto win.

Good hustle BlueBalls

 

[NavySteel]

Play our game and beat them. Shouldn't be too many issues, tbf.

Lots here said that about the hawks…. But we need to learn and have some more tricks in the bag when things aren’t going our way.