Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

[mcgrath_truther]

Zach Merrett will probably be overlooked this year based on the same premise. If you don't look flashy you have to do twice as much as the guy who does.

Merrett should be a walk up starter. His season has been immense.

he’ll likely make the squad but i’ll be shocked if he’s included in the team. from my perspective he’s a very unselfish player who’ll put the team ahead of himself, while generally he performs very well, he won’t play selfishly when he doesn’t have to, which works for us.

if he didn’t cop a soft week earlier in the year i think he’d be an outsider for the brownlow, but he should win our b&f, if nic martin doesn’t

 

[s_wd6]

Surely the KPP/Ruck who has the most coaches votes should be right in consideration no?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's a Unicorn flying up the coaches charts now as the KPP with the most votes

Surrender to your Unicorn overlord

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Newcomb has had too many average games to be anywhere near the team. Plays 2 ripping game and people are putting his name up for selection. How were his 3 prior to that?

?

Pretty good actually. In the 3 before that he averaged 28 touches, 13 contested, very high efficiency, 6 clearances, 6 score involvements and picked up coaches votes in 2 of the 3 games.

(In 2 of those 3 games, he was top 2 on field (i.e. both teams combined) for disposals, contested footy and clearances @ higher efficiency than anyone close)

Strange comment.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Surely the KPP/Ruck who has the most coaches votes should be right in consideration no?

Beat me by a unicorn horn...

 

[Superfist]

Surely the KPP/Ruck who has the most coaches votes should be right in consideration no?

Comfortably the most coaches votes for a ruck!

 

[Back One Out]

Usually those at the fringe of the squad are decided by ladder position.
At the end of the day, the Hawks are the 16th ranked side of 2023.

The Giants finished 16th last year with 6 wins, 16 losses
Sam Taylor was the All Australian CHB and Josh Kelly was in the squad as a midfielder.

I see no reason why Sicily and Newcombe won't emulate that this year.

Carlton finished 16th in 2017 with 6 wins, 16 losses.
They also had 2 players in the AA squad with Docherty being named in the 22.


Hawthorn are currently 7 wins, 14 losses. Pretty good chance of finishing with 8 wins. Smart-arses keep saying "STFU, you're 16th", etc, but the Hawks are travelling better than every other 16th team since the AFL expanded to 18 teams in 2012.

Our 7-14 record includes four victories over top 8 teams and 3 gut-wrenching losses by 1,2,3 pts when we conceded goals in the final minute. 3 games we really should've won. We were the better team on the day, but we showed our inexperience and lacked composure in red time.

Point being, the Hawks are not as bad as many of the other crappy 16th teams who've finished 16th... and the comp is so even in recent years, that finishing 16th doesn't necessarily mean you're that bad anyway. Look at the Giants and Suns in the past 2 seasons. They weren't that bad.



Anyway, it's pretty common for the 16th team to have one of their midfielders included in the AA squad. 6 times in the past 11 seasons.


16th placed team since AFL expanded to 18 teams

.......................W..L.....All Australian
2023... Haw... 7-14
2022... GWS.. 6-16... Sam Tayor (CHB), Josh Kelly (squad)
2021... Gold.. 7-15... Touk Miller (INT)
2020... Syd... 5-12... Tom Papley (squad)
2019... Carl... 7-15... Patrick Cripps (CEN)
2018... St K... 4-17-1
2017... Carl.... 6-16... Sam Docherty (HB), Matthew Kreuzer (squad)
2016... Freo... 4-18... Lachie Neale (squad)
2015... Gold... 4-17-1
2014... GWS.. 6-16... Callan Ward (squad)
2013... St K... 5-17... Nick Riewoldt (squad), Jack Steven (squad)
2012... Melb... 4-18

 

[Juddernaut08]

The Giants finished 16th last year with 6 wins, 16 losses
Sam Taylor was the All Australian CHB and Josh Kelly was in the squad as a midfielder.

I see no reason why Sicily and Newcombe won't emulate that this year.

Carlton finished 16th in 2017 with 6 wins, 16 losses.
They also had 2 players in the AA squad with Docherty being named in the 22.


Hawthorn are currently 7 wins, 14 losses. Pretty good chance of finishing with 8 wins. Smart-arses keep saying "STFU, you're 16th", etc, but the Hawks are travelling better than every other 16th team since the AFL expanded to 18 teams in 2012.

Our 7-14 record includes four victories over top 8 teams and 3 gut-wrenching losses by 1,2,3 pts when we conceded goals in the final minute. 3 games we really should've won. We were the better team on the day, but we showed our inexperience and lacked composure.

Point being, the Hawks are not as bad as many of the other crappy 16th teams who've finished 16th... and the comp is so even in recent years, that finishing 16th doesn't necessarily mean you're that bad anyway. Look at the Giants and Suns in the past 2 seasons. They weren't that bad.


Anyway, it's pretty common for the 16th team to have one of their midfielders included in the AA squad. 6 times in the past 11 seasons.


16th placed team since AFL expanded to 18 teams

2023... Haw... 7-14
2022... GWS.. 6-16... Sam Tayor (CHB), Josh Kelly (squad)
2021... Gold.. 7-15... Touk Miller (INT)
2020... Syd... 5-12... Tom Papley (squad)
2019... Carl... 7-15... Patrick Cripps (CEN)
2018... St K... 4-17-1
2017... Carl.... 6-16... Sam Docherty (HB), Matthew Kreuzer (squad)
2016... Freo... 4-18... Lachie Neale (squad)
2015... Gold... 4-17-1
2014... GWS.. 6-16... Callan Ward (squad)
2013... St K... 5-17... Nick Riewoldt (squad), Jack Steven (squad)
2012... Melb... 4-18

You're confusing yourself.

No-one is saying players from bottom teams can't make it in. But where there are similarly performed players, the player in a better team will be rewarded.

 

[Back One Out]

You're confusing yourself.

No-one is saying players from bottom teams can't make it in. But where there are similarly performed players, the player in a better team will be rewarded.

Pull the other one, mate. Every single one of those players I listed could've easily been left out with someone equally good taking their place. None of them were "locks". Some of them were downright dodgy selections.

I agree with you, ladder positions usually determines the composition of the AA team, but not like you think: comparing Player A to Player B and making informed comparisons. I think it mostly gets down to the prejudices of the guys on the selection committee and how they probably watch most of the prime time games involving the top 8 teams and can't be arsed watching most of the games involving the bottom 5 or 6 teams.


Everyone on the AA committeee would ideally watch all 9 games every weekend and compare notes on Sunday night.
I bet you most of the selectors only watch 3 or 4 games, tops.



Gillon McLachlan... Andrew Dillon... Laura Kane

Kevin Bartlett
Nathan Buckley
Cameron Ling
Kane Cornes
Matthew Pavlich
Glen Jakovich
Chris Johnson
Jude Bolton

 

[Juddernaut08]

Pull the other one, mate. Every single one of those players I listed could've easily been left out with someone equally good taking their place. None of them were "locks". Some of them were downright dodgy selections.

I agree with you, ladder positions usually determines the composition of the AA team, but not like you think: comparing Player A to Player B and making informed comparisons. I think it mostly gets down to the prejudices of the guys on the selection committee and how they probably watch most of the prime time games involving the top 8 teams and can't be arsed watching most of the games involving the bottom 5 or 6 teams.


Everyone on the AA committeee would ideally watch all 9 games every weekend and compare notes on Sunday night.
I bet you most of the selectors only watch 3 or 4 games, tops.



Gillon McLachlan... Andrew Dillon... Laura Kane

Kevin Bartlett
Nathan Buckley
Cameron Ling
Kane Cornes
Matthew Pavlich
Glen Jakovich
Chris Johnson
Jude Bolton

I don't currently have a view on the individuals. You claimed Jai has been a top 15 performed midfielder this year. That is fringe range.

If there are others in the 16-20 range from a top team, I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the squad over him.

Nothing against him, he's going to be a ripper.

 

[KENT2008]

Tim English in the backline because he takes kick ins when the game is on the line now apparently

 

[GordonBlue]

I know that Charlie will get AA, however I actually don't want any other Carlton players getting AA (even though Newman 100% deserves it).

For me it is a sign of how far Carlton has come. Nearly every single player is performing every week.

I want the league's best defence to not have a single rep in the AA team.

 

[Partridge]

Everyone on the AA committeee would ideally watch all 9 games every weekend and compare notes on Sunday night.
I bet you most of the selectors only watch 3 or 4 games, tops.

Gillon McLachlan... Andrew Dillon... Laura Kane

Kevin Bartlett
Nathan Buckley
Cameron Ling
Kane Cornes
Matthew Pavlich
Glen Jakovich
Chris Johnson
Jude Bolton

Looking at that list.......the only ones I'd would have any confidence in making sensible judgments would be Buckley, Pavlich, maybe Johnson, and Cornes when he isn't trying to attract attention (when he doesn't do that he's pretty good). Four out of eleven doesn't inspire confidence.

The first three names have as much combined knowledge about football as a block of stale cheese.

 

[beerbandit]

With two games remaining

Put a lock in for Houston, Butters, and Rozee

Butters and Rozee yes, feel Houston is behind a few others. But hey, it’s an opinion so I’m probably wrong myself.

 

[beerbandit]

For the Pies

N Daicos, J Daicos and Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

Quaynor has serious claims, been sensational second half of the year.

 

[Partridge]

Hawthorn are currently 7 wins, 14 losses. Pretty good chance of finishing with 8 wins. Smart-arses keep saying "STFU, you're 16th", etc, but the Hawks are travelling better than every other 16th team since the AFL expanded to 18 teams in 2012.

Our 7-14 record includes four victories over top 8 teams and 3 gut-wrenching losses by 1,2,3 pts when we conceded goals in the final minute. 3 games we really should've won. We were the better team on the day, but we showed our inexperience and lacked composure in red time.

Point being, the Hawks are not as bad as many of the other crappy 16th teams who've finished 16th... and the comp is so even in recent years, that finishing 16th doesn't necessarily mean you're that bad anyway. Look at the Giants and Suns in the past 2 seasons. They weren't that bad.

Anyway, it's pretty common for the 16th team to have one of their midfielders included in the AA squad. 6 times in the past 11 seasons.

16th placed team since AFL expanded to 18 teams

2023... Haw... 7-14
2022... GWS.. 6-16... Sam Tayor (CHB), Josh Kelly (squad)
2021... Gold.. 7-15... Touk Miller (INT)
2020... Syd... 5-12... Tom Papley (squad)
2019... Carl... 7-15... Patrick Cripps (CEN)
2018... St K... 4-17-1
2017... Carl.... 6-16... Sam Docherty (HB), Matthew Kreuzer (squad)
2016... Freo... 4-18... Lachie Neale (squad)
2015... Gold... 4-17-1
2014... GWS.. 6-16... Callan Ward (squad)
2013... St K... 5-17... Nick Riewoldt (squad), Jack Steven (squad)
2012... Melb... 4-18

I would add, it's very obvious to anyone paying remote attention that Hawthorn right now are a very different team to even 10 weeks ago. They're not going to make finals, they aren't winning a flag anytime soon, but they are clearly playing much better football.

It's almost like a young team gets better after getting more games into them and having their best key forward and key defender available. Stunning revelation.

 

[masai tu]

Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's a Unicorn flying up the coaches charts now as the KPP with the most votes

Surrender to your Unicorn overlord

Unicorns are invisible to radars.

 

[Mr Meow]

Let me start by saying I do NOT think Shai Bolton should be in the AA team (he should make squad)… but here are season stats from guys playing similar roles (Bolton a little more forward):

Bolton / Rozee :

Disposals: 21.9 / 25.8
Goals: 1.2 / 0.9
GA: 0.9 / 0.7
Contested: 10.0 / 8.6
DE%: 68% / 70.2%
Clangers : 3.7 / 3.8
Clearances: 4.3 / 3.8
SI’s : 6.8 / 6.8
Metres: 451 / 504
Turnovers: 4.5 / 5.7
Tackles : 3.0 / 5.0
AFL player ratings: 15.55 / 15.81

So despite less midfield time Bolton gets more clearances and more contested possessions. And 2.1 goals + goal assists to 1.6 and the same SI’s in a team that has scored nearly 300 points less.

So I don’t think Bolton should or will make it. But statistically at least his year has been every bit as good as Rozee’s, if not better, and Rozee is considered a lock.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Bolton has had a good year overall but started slow and his last month he hasn't been as influential.

The 32 coaches votes difference is significant and I don't think we can simply qualify everything with "well he's in a worse team" or else by default we always have to add the caveat to Brownlow/Coaches votes/Ayres/NS awardees in dominant sides - "well his team was just way better".

Rozee has been arguably their most crucial player in driving them top 4 and his form didn't dip when their side did. He deserves his spot.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Zach Merrett will probably be overlooked this year based on the same premise. If you don't look flashy you have to do twice as much as the guy who does.

Merrett should be a walk up starter. His season has been immense.

I'd argue he's always flashy, as he's quick and his low-trajectory ball use is as good as anyone in the league.

I agree he'll likely miss, I'd be more devastated if Langford missed tbh. He's been the most effective versatile player this year.
Deserves a bench spot.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I know that Charlie will get AA, however I actually don't want any other Carlton players getting AA (even though Newman 100% deserves it).

For me it is a sign of how far Carlton has come. Nearly every single player is performing every week.

I want the league's best defence to not have a single rep in the AA team.

I'd like to see Cripps at least be in the squad. He's now been our best player for the year according to the coaches. Has just been immense, particularly during our winstreak.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Newcomb has had too many average games to be anywhere near the team. Plays 2 ripping game and people are putting his name up for selection. How were his 3 prior to that?

He polled coaches votes in 7 consecutive games earlier in the season (I think I have that number correct). And overall has polled in a lot more than people would realise.

He's actually been super consistent on the whole, however his best performances were usually slightly let down by a quiet quarter. That disappeared yesterday. Once he nails that consistency across games he's a genuine Brownlow chance.

There isn't one part of the game he's poor at. Will be super interesting to see exactly what his ceiling is.

 

[Red_man2008]

My AA

FB: Sicily - Weitering - Houston
HB: N.Daicos - Moore - Sinclair

C: J.Daicos - Dawson - Gulden
OB: English - Bontempelli - Butters

HF: Petrecca - Walker - Langford
FF: Greene - Curnow - C.Cameron

Interchange: Rozee, Bolton, Neale & Stewart

Adelaide: 2
Brisbane: 2
Carlton: 2
Collingwood: 3
Essendon: 1
Fremantle: 0
Geelong: 1
Gold Coast: 0
GWS: 1
Hawthorn: 1
Melbourne: 1
North Melbourne: 0
Port Adelaide: 3
Richmond: 1
St Kilda: 1
Sydney: 1
West Coast: 0
Western Bulldogs: 2

You’ve just named 11 players that could potentially not be playing finals. No way half the team are outside the top 8.

 

[Cringle]

You’ve just named 11 players that could potentially not be playing finals. No way half the team are outside the top 8.

There’s 18 teams, chief.

There’s also not much between 5th and 12th place this year.

 

[s_wd6]

There’s 18 teams, chief.

There’s also not much between 5th and 12th place this year.

There’s 3.5 games between 5th and 15th while we’re at it. Ladder position really can’t be playing a huge part in selections apart from the top 4/bottom 2 teams when there’s hardly any games separating the rest of the teams.

 

[HarryBeef]

I know that Charlie will get AA, however I actually don't want any other Carlton players getting AA (even though Newman 100% deserves it).

For me it is a sign of how far Carlton has come. Nearly every single player is performing every week.

I want the league's best defence to not have a single rep in the AA team.

That doesn't make any sense since being AA means being the best in your position for the year.