Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

[267Hacksaw]

Take in a full seasons work and Gawn isn't ahead of Marshall, let alone English

 

[00Stinger]

But he's been phenomenal during our 8 game winning streak.

Even during our losing streak he wasn't that bad. Still had big numbers against teams like Dogs and Saints.

If he finishes in the top 8-10 of the coaches votes he'll be a smoky IMO.

He has mostly been good during your losing streak (comparing him to the upper echelon of mids)

But I don't think his year has been under rated at all. Wouldn't/shouldn't be in the AA squad discussion when on previous form is really the pass mark for him

 

[LukeParkerno1]

But he's been phenomenal during our 8 game winning streak.

Even during our losing streak he wasn't that bad. Still had big numbers against teams like Dogs and Saints.

If he finishes in the top 8-10 of the coaches votes he'll be a smoky IMO.

8 weeks should not get you a jumper, a smoky from your side would be Nic Newman wouldn't be completely against it, was by far and away your best in the losing streak and a high level in your winning streak.

 

[HarryBeef]

8 weeks should not get you a jumper, a smoky from your side would be Nic Newman wouldn't be completely against it, was by far and away your best in the losing streak and a high level in your winning streak.

Newman should be a lock.

 

[eth-dog]

Newman would be lucky to get in the squad. A lock? Don't make me laugh.

 

[hawkman]

Newman would be lucky to get in the squad. A lock? Don't make me laugh.

I do laugh how most think 2 or 3 in their team should be a lock. There are currently about 40 locks

 

[HarryBeef]

Newman would be lucky to get in the squad. A lock? Don't make me laugh.

It's cute that you're trying to learn about football

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Sicily makes the squad, won't comment on the team as those positions are highly contested. Wasn't shocked on Moore though had him fractionally behind the ones that were in, but I have to say he's one of my favourite opposition players love how creative he is.

Just to thrown in my 2c on some of the topics you are discussing:

• J. Daicos and Gulden both in the team and on the wings for me. Been good enough to be picked as 'outright mids' in their own right (sometimes the specialist wings haven't been as good as the inside/outside mids selected) so the fact they actually play the wing positions is a nice bonus
• Libba is in for me. Deserving 1st AA selection and been too good to leave out IMO
• English is in the team but not sure Gawn has to make it. Plenty of teams run with 1 ruck (including the one English plays for). Normally there are (at least) 2 rucks that are in the best handful of players in the comp. Not so this year with the likes of Gawn having a pretty quiet patch. May as well give the bench spot to someone who has been good all year, even if not a ruckman.
• Biased but Sicily should be in the team. Newcombe is a maybe for the squad (but probably won't be selected). Breust is also a maybe for the squad depending on his last couple of weeks, given he has kicked 43 goals (Toby Greene a lock for the side and Charlie Cameron the only other small forward with 40+ goals).
• Agreed Dylan Moore was a maybe for the squad last year. He wasn't 'fractionally behind' Tom Papley though - who was a howler of a pick. Moore and Bontempelli were the only 2 that averaged over 20 touches and a goal a game. Moore averaged a LOT more of the ball, more contested ball, MUCH higher efficiency, more tackles, etc, etc than Papley - and kicked the same amount of goals. Moore averaged this but also played every game whilst Papley missed 6 (which is nearly a third of the season).

 

[eth-dog]

I do laugh how most think 2 or 3 in their team should be a lock. There are currently about 40 locks

Current locks for the 22:

Walker, Dawson, Curnow, Daicos, Greene, Sicily, Petracca, Butters, Rozee, Bont

That's half a side. The remaining 12 are up in the air.

It's cute that you're trying to learn about football

Defenders that would be ahead of him right now:

Andrews, Weitering, Moore, Daicos, Quaynor, Stewart, Sicily, Houston, Wilkie, Sinclair. There are 10 players who are definitely ahead of him for a spot. They rarely go more than 10 defenders in the squad, and if they do they're more likely to add another key defender. As I said, would be lucky to be in the squad.

It's good to educate you about football. There are teams that wear colours that aren't navy blue.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Another curious factor is that a ruckman finishing on the coaches association leaderboard hasn't missed out since NicNat in 2015. You have to go even further to find the top vote getting ruckman missing out.

Jackson is on top right now, but there's been little talk of him.

The thing is a farce anyway but if Jackson gets picked the whole thing is an irretrievable sham.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Current locks for the 22:

Walker, Dawson, Curnow, Daicos, Greene, Sicily, Petracca, Butters, Rozee, Bont

That's half a side. The remaining 12 are up in the air.

Defenders that would be ahead of him right now:

Andrews, Weitering, Moore, Daicos, Quaynor, Stewart, Sicily, Houston, Wilkie, Sinclair. There are 10 players who are definitely ahead of him for a spot. They rarely go more than 10 defenders in the squad, and if they do they're more likely to add another key defender. As I said, would be lucky to be in the squad.

It's good to educate you about football. There are teams that wear colours that aren't navy blue.

11. English is a walk up start. Gawn is a chance for a second ruck spot but English is as close to a moral as you will ever see.

 

[eth-dog]

11. English is a walk up start. Gawn is a chance for a second ruck spot but English is as close to a moral as you will ever see.

English isn't quite a lock yet. I think he makes it but not sure he's over the line yet.

 

[theasian]

Just to clarify, I was responding to a post about Libba.

But I agree 100%. I'll actually be stunned if Duke makes the squad this year, although I'd love to see it. Thought Dylan Moore wad a squad lock last season and it didn't happen. Sicily's omission has obviously been spoken to death in this thread.
Basically, Hawthorn supporters know that it comes to the AA side, we're only ever going to be shocked in a disappointing way, not a positive one.

Do you think lack of a ex-Hawthorn guy on the recent panels is a factor?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

English isn't quite a lock yet. I think he makes it but not sure he's over the line yet.

Who do you think could beat him to 1st ruck? Gawn? Marshall?

(My view is that the rucks have been pretty poor this year whereas previous seasons have seen 1 and sometimes multiple rucks be in the best 5 - 10 players so I'd probably only go with 1 ruck this year - particularly as English, Marshall and Gawn have all done their best work as the sole ruck for those with the "real team" argument).

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

English isn't quite a lock yet. I think he makes it but not sure he's over the line yet.

Who would you see nudging him out? Gawn is still the best ruck in the comp but given Collingwood's structure this season he can only be judged on the last month and that isn't anywhere near enough to remove English.

Marshall? Jackson?

 

[eth-dog]

Who do you think could beat him to 1st ruck? Gawn? Marshall?

(My view is that the rucks have been pretty poor this year whereas previous seasons have seen 1 and sometimes multiple rucks be in the best 5 - 10 players so I'd probably only go with 1 ruck this year - particularly as English, Marshall and Gawn have all done their best work as the sole ruck for those with the "real team" argument).

If he goes down 5 minutes in this week and any of those two and Jackson and the two you mentioned have two best one's I'd say could overtake him.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Do you think lack of a ex-Hawthorn guy on the recent panels is a factor?

I would hope not. But honestly, after Sicily's omission last season I viewed the 'granduer' of an All Australian selection as far less important than most other awards.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

If he goes down 5 minutes in this week and any of those two and Jackson and the two you mentioned have two best one's I'd say could overtake him.

Mate, there's only 2 games left.

He's Winx in this race against a group of cart horses.

 

[eth-dog]

Mate, there's only 2 games left.

He's Winx in this race against a group of cart horses.

I think it's closer than you think. Yes, he's the frontrunner and I think he probably makes it, but there are arguments as to why the others could make it ahead of him as well.

 

[s_wd6]

The thing is a farce anyway but if Jackson gets picked the whole thing is an irretrievable sham.

Jackson has bigger impacts on games than any other KPP according to the coaches.

And for those saying he's only had a few good games, he's polled in as many games as Gawn and English.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

If he goes down 5 minutes in this week and any of those two and Jackson and the two you mentioned have two best one's I'd say could overtake him.

I would hope that Jackson isn't selected first ruck to be honest. He started the season in pretty poor form and has only been first ruck since round 13 (and even then has a 6 hit out and 3 hit out game as he was again not first ruck).

He is ranked 16th for hit outs which doesn't even tell the full story as he has 349 and the leaders are in the 800's (i.e. less than half). It's similar for hitouts to advantage, where he is ranked 17th (behind Bailey Williams, Andrew Phillips, etc).

I get that he is doing plenty around the ground and is ranked lower in the "ruck stats" because he's only had half a season there but that is why I don't think he should be selected there. If he gets picked, it should be on the bench as the back up/allrounder but I think he is more in the squad territory than any chance at first ruck, regardless of the last 2 weeks.

 

[rye]

jackson is no where near the team

 

[s_wd6]

I would hope that Jackson isn't selected first ruck to be honest. He started the season in pretty poor form and has only been first ruck since round 13 (and even then has a 6 hit out and 3 hit out game as he was again not first ruck).

He is ranked 16th for hit outs which doesn't even tell the full story as he has 349 and the leaders are in the 800's (i.e. less than half). It's similar for hitouts to advantage, where he is ranked 17th (behind Bailey Williams, Andrew Phillips, etc).

I get that he is doing plenty around the ground and is ranked lower in the "ruck stats" because he's only had half a season there but that is why I don't think he should be selected there. If he gets picked, it should be on the bench as the back up but I tink he is more in the squad territory than any chance at first ruck, regardless of the last 2 weeks.

He deserves to be selected on the bench ala Blicavs last year

 

[Blackhawk42]

Because I believe consistency should play just as big a part as specific performances...

1.English
2. Daylight
3. Marshall
4. Gawn/Jackson

 

[HarryBeef]

Current locks for the 22:

Walker, Dawson, Curnow, Daicos, Greene, Sicily, Petracca, Butters, Rozee, Bont

That's half a side. The remaining 12 are up in the air.

Defenders that would be ahead of him right now:

Andrews, Weitering, Moore, Daicos, Quaynor, Stewart, Sicily, Houston, Wilkie, Sinclair. There are 10 players who are definitely ahead of him for a spot. They rarely go more than 10 defenders in the squad, and if they do they're more likely to add another key defender. As I said, would be lucky to be in the squad.

It's good to educate you about football. There are teams that wear colours that aren't navy blue.

He's well ahead of Quaynor and imo ahead of Houston as well. Remember the Blues have the best defence in the league.