Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

[Fadge]

Can't speak for the others but Gulden is so high as he doesn't go for cheap kicks. Almost every kick Gulden does is risky and needs to be precise because he usually goes for the attacking option. Means he has a lower kicking efficiency than a player who goes for the easy sideways kicks.

Hoyney mentioned this on SEN. They go with a different rating, when it bases the measure on the expected efficiency based on the difficulty of the kick.

A much better way to do it - at least that's one element of his algorithm that he has right.

 

[Purple Suit]

Listening to Hoyney's Champion Data AA team on SEN.

When is he going to realise his ratings system is flawed?

Mason Wood?
Sam Switsowski?
Lachie Whitfield?
Isaac Heeney?

Probably others I've missed.

And of course Dustin Martin was one of his first picked, with Shai Bolton on the other flank.

It is completely broken. The main reason you become Elite is because of your classification and if you have a few stat outliers that give you a huge score over your rivals. It's like having a DPP player in Supercoach who actual plays midfield.

 

[Daka]

Listening to Hoyney's Champion Data AA team on SEN.

When is he going to realise his ratings system is flawed?

Mason Wood?
Sam Switsowski?
Lachie Whitfield?
Isaac Heeney?

Probably others I've missed.

And of course Dustin Martin was one of his first picked, with Shai Bolton on the other flank.

Considering people like Kane Cornes & other analyst and supporters make arguments based off champion data's numbers.

You literally can make anyone look bad or good depending on what you go with.

 

[Forward Press]

You literally can make anyone look bad or good depending on what you go with.

So this the complete list of AFL players who have achieved

650+ disposals
150 + tackles
15+ goals

In 1, home and away season, since tackle counts have been recorded in 1987

1. Tim Taranto

You liked this post.

The absolute irony is delicious.

 

[Daka]

You liked this post.

The absolute irony is delicious.

You don't think those stats are impressive?
stats aren't everything but the fact he is the first person with those proves he should have at least been in the Squad.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

You also have T.Kelly, Gulden, Viney, Crouch, Bontempelli, Greene and Green there. Maybe you should've checked the list before posting it?

Yeah I checked the list, Taranto has at least 14% more clangers than all of them except Kelly, who played for the worst side this century, hence its relevance to the discussion.

 

[Forward Press]

You don't think those stats are impressive?
stats aren't everything but the fact he is the first person with those proves he should have at least been in the Squad.

I don't really give a toss about the endless Richmond circlejerk (to put in crudely).

But I found that post compared to your endorsement of blaisee quite amusing.

 

[Daka]

Yeah I checked the list, Taranto has at least 14% more clangers than all of them except Kelly, who played for the worst side this century, hence its relevance to the discussion.

Oliver also has a higher turnover rate than Taranto.

See how easy it is to use stats against a player.

 

[STPer18]

Taranto missing the squad is this year's version of Lynch deservedly getting pipped by Hawkins and Cameron last season. Get ready for it to be brought up ad nauseam all throughout 2024.

 

[hawkman]

its insane the more you look at the numbers

Taranto is top 6 in the voting for the brownlow and statistically has done things that haven't been done in recorded history, but he doesn't make the AA squad of 44.

The justification is his kicking, well, if you get the ball as much as he does, you do turn it over sometimes

Clanger / Disposal % would be better than most on that list, but people see what they want to see.

Has the Brownlow happened? Who won?

 

[Purple Suit]

Oliver also has a higher turnover rate than Taranto.

See how easy it is to use stats against a player.

Not this year, Taranto has set a new record for most amount of Clangers in a regular season at 121.

How could the most Clangers on record be rewarded with an AA berth?

 

[Daka]

Not this year, Taranto has set a new record for most amount of Clangers in a regular season at 121.

How could the most Clangers on record be rewarded with an AA berth?

2017 most clangers

1# Dustin Martin
2# Patrick Dangerfield

Based off that both of them shouldn't have been top 2 in the Brownlow & should not have made the AA team.

 

[RUNVS]

Hoyney mentioned this on SEN. They go with a different rating, when it bases the measure on the expected efficiency based on the difficulty of the kick.

A much better way to do it - at least that's one element of his algorithm that he has right.

Something I genuinely don't understand is why we as fans do not have access to the more advanced stats Champion Data have. I mean isn't Champion Data owned by the AFL? Why not give us fans the stats that are really important rather than the most basic stats that often tell us nothing?

 

[Forward Press]

Oliver also has a higher turnover rate than Taranto.

See how easy it is to use stats against a player.

2017 most clangers

1# Dustin Martin
2# Patrick Dangerfield

Based off that both of them shouldn't have been top 2 in the Brownlow & should not have made the AA team.

You literally can make anyone look bad or good depending on what you go with.

 

[jannissary]

Plus 120 clangers, super-elite!!

View attachment 1789463

NUMBER 1 BABY WOOOOOOOOOOOO HE DESERVES IT BEST IN THE LEAGUE

 

[Purple Suit]

2017 most clangers

1# Dustin Martin
2# Patrick Dangerfield

Based off that both of them shouldn't have been top 2 in the Brownlow & should not have made the AA team.

115 for Dusty, not the 121 for Taranto but I agree they need to go back and review some awards in 2017.

 

[Mr Meow]

2017 most clangers

1# Dustin Martin
2# Patrick Dangerfield

Based off that both of them shouldn't have been top 2 in the Brownlow & should not have made the AA team.

Check combined goals/assists, effective disposals and score involvements and you'll see a massive difference in hurt factor between those two in 2017 and Taranto in 2023.

 

[Fadge]

Has the Brownlow happened? Who won?

Taranto may be in the top half dozen in Brownlow voting at the halfway point of the season, but does anyone think he finishes ahead of:
Bont
Petracca
Daicos
Butters
Gulden
Neale

He's miles behind all of them.

 

[Daka]

Check combined goals/assists, effective disposals and score involvements and you'll see a massive difference in hurt factor between those two in 2017 and Taranto in 2023.

I'm not directly comparing Taranto to Dusty & Danger seasons.

I'm stating pretty much I don't put too much stock in the Clangers as a stat, because a Clanger kick could be to your team's advantage, turnovers are much more important because you actually turned the ball over, there are players in the league that turn the ball over more than Taranto & are considered elite midfielders within the league.

I've not heard one Richmond supporter or any supporter in general claim that Taranto is some elite kick, we all know he is not a great kick but what he doesn't get credit for are other aspects of his game.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm not directly comparing Taranto to Dusty & Danger seasons.

I'm stating pretty much I don't put too much stock in the Clangers as a stat, because a Clanger kick could be to your team's advantage, turnovers are much more important because you actually turned the ball over, there are players in the league that turn the ball over more than Taranto & are considered elite midfielders within the league.

I've not heard one Richmond supporter or any supporter in general claim that Taranto is some elite kick, we all know he is not a great kick but what he doesn't get credit for other aspects of his game.

Yeah I get that I'm just saying that those are the types of factors they'd be looking at for turnover high players, cost-benefit or impact Vs liability per possession.

 

[HTPunter]

Didn't play on him

lol

Not good enough I guess

 

[HTPunter]

Let's look at Martin's score involvements per touch compared to other forwards in the top 50 of SI:

Hawkins 66.4%
Walker 60.5%
Larkey 58.8%
C Cameron 58.5%
Curnow 57.7%
Naughton 53.9%
Ugle-Hagan 53.6%
Finlayson 50.5%
Langford 48.4%
J Cameron 47.9%
Greene 45.8%
Lukosius 44.8%
Papley 42.6%
Daniher 41.2%
Rankine 39.9%
Heeney 37.8%
Miers 37.7%
Schultz 34.8%
Martin 32.7%
Bolton 32.2%

Only 19th out of 20. Clearly deserving of AA.

I mean if you use this to say Martin isn’t deserving, then surely you have Naughton in your AA squad?

 

[Mr Meow]

I mean if you use this to say Martin isn’t deserving, then surely you have Naughton in your AA squad?

Naughton might be a frustrating player to watch but he certainly came out of the year as one of the players underrated for his output. 66 goals/assists and 144 score involvements and Bont is the only midfielder they have who knows how to kick.

If only he were accurate he'd have been 5th in the Coleman to go with his 7th in goal assists.

But like Cameron when he is inaccurate, those missed set shots are the most memorable factor.

 

[HarryBeef]

lol

Not good enough I guess

Huh?

 

[Roby]

Yeah I checked the list, Taranto has at least 14% more clangers than all of them except Kelly, who played for the worst side this century, hence its relevance to the discussion.

I'm not disagreeing with your premise, just they you could've formed your argument better. Someone also pointed out that graph doesn't strengthen your argument.

Kick efficiency percentage can be and sometimes is misleading, as it doesn't take into account what kick was attempted, and what pressure it was under. Although CD do have these stats, they just don't publish them. I'm sure if they did Taranto would be on the bottom of those.