Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

[Simon Crawshay]

Statistically they have been very similar. I don't think you can split them statistically. It's marginal and depends on which stats you place priority on.

The reason I have Weitering ahead is he plays on the best key forward every week. Jack Payne has been doing that job more often for Brisbane. Thats not a criticism of Andrews but if they are line ball statiscally thats the decider for me since we are selecting an AA fullback (I watch nearly every Brisbane game).

Also, maybe it shouldn't matter but Weitering has been close to the unluckiest man out of the side the last 3 years. Lost a 50/50 call against Moore in 2020 and Allir 2021 (mainly due to the blues ladder position). Last year he was a lock before getting injured. Given alot of selectors are the same I wonder if that influences them. Discussing the same guy again and making a tight call against him would be brutal (though not unheard of as you would know with McLuggage).

I really rate Weitering, he destroyed the Hawks when we played you guys mid season.

I think Weitering is like Sicily in the fact that they seem to constantly have line ball AA selections go against them.

They both deserve a spot this year not just for their outstanding individual seasons but as a sign of respect for being two of the best and most consistent defenders in the league over the last five years.

 

[scott_the_man]

Harris Andrews and Jacob Weitering AFL Stats Comparison

Harris Andrews and Jacob Weitering AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Of the relevant stats for a key defender.

Weitering:
-More disposals
-More marks, more contested marks
-More rebound 50s
-More metres gained

Andrews:
-More spoils/one percenters

***
The 'stats' you mention are disingenuous or exaggerated, claiming 0.1 differences as wins.
-Weitering averages 0.1 more clangers per game, but given he has more disposals Andrews is more prone to a clanger per possession.
-Andrews handballs it much more than Weiters so you'd hope he's turning it over less.

It's funny you don't like me using small differences as wins yet you are doing the exact same.

It's a two way street.

 

[Wargreymon90]

B: Sicily Andrews Houston
HB: N Daicos Moore Sinclair
C: Gulden Bontempelli J Daicos
HF: Petracca Walker Greene
FF: Cameron Curnow Larkey

Ruck: Marshall Butters Rozee

Int: Dawson Neale Serong English

 

[Juddernaut08]

It's funny you don't like me using small differences as wins yet you are doing the exact same.

It's a two way street.

the other guy hit the nail on the head. the fact that Weitering has marginally better stats than Andrews is not a big deal. the fact that he racks up more marks whilst stopping the best forward is what sets them apart.

Andrews can easily peel off the weaker forwards to take loose marks. Yet he still gets less than Weiters who is simultaneously beating his man and taking marks.

It shouldn't be a discussion. Andrews would be in the squad though.

 

[scott_the_man]

the other guy hit the nail on the head. the fact that Weitering has marginally better stats than Andrews is not a big deal. the fact that he racks up more marks whilst stopping the best forward is what sets them apart.

Andrews can easily peel off the weaker forwards to take loose marks. Yet he still gets less than Weiters who is simultaneously beating his man and taking marks.

It shouldn't be a discussion. Andrews would be in the squad though.

"More marks"

He averages 0.1 more mark per game.

In your last post you had a problem with me using stats like this.

Double standards.

 

[Juddernaut08]

"More marks"

He averages 0.1 more mark per game.

In your last post you had a problem with me using stats like this.

Double standards.

More marks despite having to shutdown the best forward.

Andrews being able to peel off weak forwards should have significantly more marks. Instead Weiters has more.

Looks like you've failed comperhension because you've missed the point.

 

[scott_the_man]

More marks despite having to shutdown the best forward.

Andrews being able to peel off weak forwards should have significantly more marks. Instead Weiters has more.

Looks like you've failed comperhension because you've missed the point.

When Andrewws peels off he's often killing the contest with a fist. Hence the one percenter discrepancy.

Not sure why you're using marks as a metric when most of the marks they take are uncontested and meaningless.

 

[Juddernaut08]

When Andrewws peels off he's often killing the contest with a fist. Hence the one percenter discrepancy.

Not sure why you're using marks as a metric when most of the marks they take are uncontested and meaningless.

Andrews has more uncontested marks, despite less marks overall.

Weitering averages 20% more contested marks than Andrews. Only one of their games is uncontested and meaningless, and it's not Weiters.

Andrews is an elite player but has been shaded this year. Nothing wrong with that. He's still squad worthy.

Hope you have a good finals series. I don't think it's realistic for the Blues to win so hope it's you or Port who can stop the Pies.

 

[scott_the_man]

Andrews has more uncontested marks, despite less marks overall.

Weitering averages 20% more contested marks than Andrews. Only one of their games is uncontested and meaningless, and it's not Weiters.

Andrews is an elite player but has been shaded this year. Nothing wrong with that. He's still squad worthy.

Hope you have a good finals series. I don't think it's realistic for the Blues to win so hope it's you or Port who can stop the Pies.

Contested marks is a fair metric, and yes Weitering has got him covered by 0.3 a game. Again not a big difference there.

The only noticable statistical difference between the two is the spoils but that is expected given the role difference.

In cases like this where it's hard to split them statistically they usually go for the team that's higher placed.

 

[eth-dog]

Both Andrews and Weitering have an argument to be one of the two key defenders.

 

[Daka]

If Rozee is a lock, then these stats are interesting:

Rozee v Martin:

Disposals: 26.0 v 23.6
Goals. 0.9 v 1.2
GA: 0.7 v 0.8
Goals + goal assists: 1.6 v 2.0
SI: 7.0 v 7.7
Contested: 8.5 v 9.8
Tackles: 5.0 v 1.9
Clearances: 3.7 v 2.9
Turnovers: 5.9 v 4.5

I also believe Rozee is a lock, but Martin has pretty good claims doing it in a team finishing 13th compared to top-4.


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Rozee is a lock but he plays way more midfield minutes & has only 3 odd touches more just shows how impressive Dusty's season is you don't see those type of numbers playing 86+% time forward.

If the AA selection panels judges Dusty to the rest of the comp he gets in for me, but they judge him by his own standards he doesn't get in.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

 

[eth-dog]

View attachment 1788346

Richmond coach pumps up Richmond player. In other news, the sky is blue.

 

[JyeDye]

On Andrews vs Weitering I know I'm heavily bias, but I just don't think you can put both Andrews and Moore in the side. I know it's not a proper team but seriously who is actually going to be doing the defending?

 

[Noidnadroj]

Not sure it's a great metric with team defences nowadays

I agree it’s not the be all and end all. But it’s a decent ‘tiebreaker’ between comparable players. Example … if Weitering has conceded 15 goals and Moore has conceded 40, then if a lineball choose Weitering.


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[Iceman!]

Rozee is a lock but he plays way more midfield minutes & has only 3 odd touches more just shows how impressive Dusty's season is you don't see those type of numbers playing 86+% time forward.

If the AA selection panels judges Dusty to the rest of the comp he gets in for me, but they judge him by his own standards he doesn't get in.

And if you consider he spends so much more time forward of centre he should be judged against the forwards and his scoreboard impact is not as great as others.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Sorry, Richmond fans are trying to pick him as a forward. Therefore goals and assists are the most important part. I'd rather pick a forward in the AA side with 50+ goals who averages 10-15 touches a game compared to one that has 25 and averages 23

Isn’t he just being picked as a player in the team? HFF, bench, forward pocket ….. whatever. His performances warrant selection. But that goes for a lot of players who will miss out. He has missed 3 games so might lose out in a lineball to others who haven’t missed any.

Based on this years performances I’d prefer Martin in my team roaming midfield and forward than Cameron or Langford. Cameron has had 15 games out of 23 played with 3 goals/goal assists or fewer. As a forward in a top-2 team who never leaves the F50. You could put Jacob Townsend in that F50 for Lions and he probably kicks 40.


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[eth-dog]

Isn’t he just being picked as a player in the team? HFF, bench, forward pocket ….. whatever. His performances warrant selection. But that goes for a lot of players who will miss out. He has missed 3 games so might lose out in a lineball to others who haven’t missed any.

Based on this years performances I’d prefer Martin in my team roaming midfield and forward than Cameron or Langford. Cameron has had 15 games out of 23 played with 3 goals/goal assists or fewer. As a forward in a top-2 team who never leaves the F50. You could put Jacob Townsend in that F50 for Lions and he probably kicks 40.


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No, they don't. Martin is either picked as a small/medium forward, where he's behind half a dozen players minimum, or he's picked as a mid, where he's behind 20+.

If they pick him ahead of either of them, it'll be the worst selection of the past decade. As a forward, he simply hasn't kicked enough goals.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Deflection and diversion again, you really are a cariaciture.

Who says I thought Stewart had a better season than Sicily? I didn't. It wouldn't have bothered me if he missed out either. But my contention is he was competing with Saad and Maynard as those two were the fringe selections. Or Sicily as a KPD as I suspect those stats would be better than May or Taylor's too.

None of this changes Rozee comfortably winning out on almost every category ahead of Martin. Rozee playing every game and thus building that lead on stats and coaches votes adds to his case, of course it does.

Martin’s not competing with Rozee. Rozee gets in the team as a midfielder. I was just highlighting Martin’s average stats are similar (worse in midfield stats like clearances and disposals, better averages in scoreboard related ones).

His total stats are lower as he’s missed 3 games and Rozee missed none. Just as Stewart’s totals were way lower than loads of other defenders like Sicily as he missed 5 games and was injured early in another.

No big deal.


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[Muddiemoose]

"More marks"

He averages 0.1 more mark per game.

In your last post you had a problem with me using stats like this.

Double standards.

If you just want to talk about marks, especially contested
Balta had them both covered and has more intercepts & rebound 50’s

Despite being played forward for the last few games

Don’t think he will make the squad or team but if people only want to look at stats they can’t be ignored

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

So when does the team get announced? This week?

 

[Daka]

And if you consider he spends so much more time forward of centre he should be judged against the forwards and his scoreboard impact is not as great as others.

His 5th for score involvements among forwards, when you take out midfielders, so he does competes with the best in competition in that area.
He is also number #1 in many stats as a forward where others aren't.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Exactly. Sure he has the 11th most score involvements* but he's nowhere near it for goals or assists.

*Something else to think about for SIs are his 22 behinds. Those are 22 "clanger" score involvements. If you remove everyone's behinds then Martin and Bolton are equal 18th for total score involvements. Trailing Curnow, Petracca, Bont, Walker, Greene, Coniglio, Miers, Rozee, Butters, Dawson, Anderson, Laird, Merrett, Adams, Newcombe, Brayshaw and Green.

Wow. The Dusty scars run deep from 2017-20 for some Cat fans … real deep. It’s ok …. he probably won’t make the final team and you can sleep again at night.


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[Lets Roar like '44]

Both Andrews and Weitering have an argument to be one of the two key defenders.

Put them both in. It’s not like they put players in their actual positions anyway. What’s it matter?

 

[HTPunter]

Like you said, they're back pockets, so quoting one on one marking stats doesn't mean that much either. Newman shuts out the opposition's best small/medium player most weeks. Kept Tony Greene to 5 touches for instance.

And this time?