Live Event 2023 Brownlow medal live chat

[FantasticShirt]

Bont absolutely robbed again. Feel really sorry for him.

Ridiculous medal. Ridiculous count.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Gil even said before he read the last round of votes something like "it's a good one, I promise".

They read them in order of excitement, that's fine. If they didn't screw up the actual voting I wouldn't care if they asked a circus performer to pull the voting cards from an orifice, as long as the winner was actually one of the best few players in the comp that year.

Wines, Cripps, Neale. A murderer's row of inside players who are admittedly good at what they do, but have way less of a bearing on the outcome of a game than the attacking mids who do it all. It's pathetic.

Neale did come 5th in the coaches award. That is probably the best guide so i don't think his year overall can be down played.

 

[hutchy31]

Neale did come 5th in the coaches award. That is probably the best guide so i don't think his year overall can be down played.

His year was at best that - fifth in the comp, but a clear margin behind the best four players. If it wasn’t a midfielders award I’d argue Curnow should be up there too but that’s another debate.

That he not only beat Bont, but also the other three is criminal. It’s not his fault and he’s a great player, but this was a disgrace and my guess is it’ll be remembered as such.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

His year was at best that - fifth in the comp, but a clear margin behind the best four players. If it wasn’t a midfielders award I’d argue Curnow should be up there too but that’s another debate.

That he not only beat Bont, but also the other three is criminal. It’s not his fault and he’s a great player, but this was a disgrace and my guess is it’ll be remembered as such.

I think because Neale is/was so good, in time we won't remember it like the Woewodin and Priddis ones.

 

[dogwatch]

sickening how in both of bonts brownlow worthy seasons, his teammates have played like a bunch of peanuts for about a 6 week patch, thus costing us wins and bont votes.

sickens me to no end.

yeah yeah beveridge can cop his fair share of the blame for that too.

But as I keep saying it should have nothing to do with how OTHER players play ... [sigh]

 

[darklake]

Still fuming.

 

[Oliver G]

16% of the AFLCA 10 voters failed to receive a single Brownlow vote in that respective game...

 

[dogwatch]

Interesting tables below, taken from afltables. WB players shown in blue. Current players shown in beige.

The first thing to note is that Bont has moved to tenth on the all time list of votes/game. He also happens to be 23rd on most votes ever (table not shown, but here's a link if you want to look at it) and with perhaps 100 games left in his career he could well finish 3rd or 4th on that list. As soon as next year he should overtake Scott West

Scott West

Age

50

Ht

178cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

12.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.0

3star

(175) as the highest vote winner in a Bulldogs jumper.

An interesting point is that Nick Daicos is averaging 0.93 votes per game which is insanely good and would place him third on the list. A freak talent, no doubt. However he doesn't yet qualify as 50 games are needed. He has only played 39.



In the second table it's a bit of a giggle that Taylor Duryea

15

Taylor Duryea

Age

33

Ht

181cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

10.7

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.8

4star

is now closing in on the most games played without a Brownlow medal. That honour is currently held by an ex-Bulldog, Jordan Roughead

23

Jordan Roughead

Age

34

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

132.4

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.1

2star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.1

2star

MG

82.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

4.4

2star

HB

8.0

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

.



However when you study those tables a little more closely it tells a deeper story. I shows what a spurious guide to player quality the Brownlow voting is. All the current day players on that list are midfielders. In one sense it rings true because your best players need to be where the action is, but these days not even ruckmen get many votes and they should be right under the umpire's nose. When was the last ruckman Brownlow medallist? (See below for answer) Anyway it raises alarm bells.

But it's really sheeted home when you look at the second table (non-votegetters). Every single one of the current players on that list is a defender ... and nearly all the retired ones were too.

Conclusion: Either all defenders are useless or the voting system is hopelessly skewed to one type of player (in one type of team).

Spoiler: Last Ruckman Brownlow Medallist

Well, if you count Adam Goodes who was a utility/defender/ruckman at 191cm tall it was in 2006. But the last true ruckman to win a Brownlow was our own Scott Wynd in 1992 ... 31 years ago.

 

[NBates]

We couldn't win the giblets in a chook raffle atm

 

[Norm De Guerre]

What'd I miss?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Interesting tables below, taken from afltables. WB players shown in blue. Current players shown in beige.

The first thing to note is that Bont has moved to tenth on the all time list of votes/game. He also happens to be 23rd on most votes ever (table not shown, but here's a link if you want to look at it) and with perhaps 100 games left in his career he could well finish 3rd or 4th on that list. As soon as next year he should overtake Scott West (175) as the highest vote winner in a Bulldogs jumper.

An interesting point is that Nick Daicos is averaging 0.93 votes per game which is insanely good and would place him third on the list. A freak talent, no doubt. However he doesn't yet qualify as 50 games are needed. He has only played 39.

View attachment 1814101

In the second table it's a bit of a giggle that Taylor Duryea is now closing in on the most games played without a Brownlow medal. That honour is currently held by an ex-Bulldog, Jordan Roughead.

View attachment 1814105

However when you study those tables a little more closely it tells a deeper story. I shows what a spurious guide to player quality the Brownlow voting is. All the current day players on that list are midfielders. In one sense it rings true because your best players need to be where the action is, but these days not even ruckmen get many votes and they should be right under the umpire's nose. When was the last ruckman Brownlow medallist? (See below for answer) Anyway it raises alarm bells.

But it's really sheeted home when you look at the second table (non-votegetters). Every single one of the current players on that list is a defender ... and nearly all the retired ones were too.

Conclusion: Either all defenders are useless or the voting system is hopelessly skewed to one type of player (in one type of team).

Spoiler: Last Ruckman Brownlow Medallist

Well, if you count Adam Goodes who was a utility/defender/ruckman at 191cm tall it was in 2006. But the last true ruckman to win a Brownlow was our own Scott Wynd in 1992 ... 31 years ago.

On that second list at quick glance, only Henshaw stands out as playing pre-2000s. So reinforces your point that modern day defenders are unseen by umpires - unless they are high possession. Whereas low possession defenders in previous eras were still acknowledged if they were effective at DEFENDING.
Single umpire or even 2 umps noticed defenders - and ruckmen, wingers and forwards. 3 and 4 umpires really do need OPSM or Specsavers or whoever their sponsor is.
And I'm still not cutting them any slack because the AFL constantly screw with rules - 3 and 4 umpires have not improved umpiring standards due to numerical superiority. Umpiring was inconsistent in 1973, 1983, etc and still at least as bad (I'd argue worse by a fair margin) in 2023.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Once again, the result proving umpires have absolutely no feel for who the most damaging players are, which players have the most impact on the result.

Wines, Cripps, Neale x 2. All players that get a lot of the ball, but Cripps aside, maybe, they don't really hurt you in the way Bont or Daicos do.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Regardless of all the weird votes Neale got, I’m just as annoyed at some of the snubs Bont got.

According to stats insider he was the most likely player to get the 3 against Richmond (45%), GWS (54%), Sydney (57%) and Essendon (58%).

I know heaps of other players had similar, but for each 50/50 to go against him really cost him.

 

[Golden_6]

Regardless of all the weird votes Neale got, I’m just as annoyed at some of the snubs Bont got.

According to stats insider he was the most likely player to get the 3 against Richmond (45%), GWS (54%), Sydney (57%) and Essendon (58%).

I know heaps of other players had similar, but for each 50/50 to go against him really cost him.

It was a weird year for Bont. He pretty much polled the bare minimum that he could possibly have polled and still ended up on 29.

He’s polled far better in prior seasons when looking at 50/50 votes.

 

[Sentinel]

Regardless of all the weird votes Neale got, I’m just as annoyed at some of the snubs Bont got.

According to stats insider he was the most likely player to get the 3 against Richmond (45%), GWS (54%), Sydney (57%) and Essendon (58%).

I know heaps of other players had similar, but for each 50/50 to go against him really cost him.

He at least got votes in all of them. I'd say there's far less of an issue where umpires don't agree on who deserves 3, 2 or 1 votes, that's excusable, compared to when they pluck votes out for someone who was clearly nowhere near it. Particularly 3 votes! There's 4 umpires, how they can collectively be objectively so wrong is baffling.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Regardless of all the weird votes Neale got, I’m just as annoyed at some of the snubs Bont got.

According to stats insider he was the most likely player to get the 3 against Richmond (45%), GWS (54%), Sydney (57%) and Essendon (58%).

I know heaps of other players had similar, but for each 50/50 to go against him really cost him.

Clearly the umps have games where it was a toss up for 3 votes so they automatically picked Neale. Annoyingly, Bont didn't get the same
treatment despite clearly having more BOG games than he was given last night.

If the AFL was serious about integrity (which they're not), they would remind the umpires to do their job properly, but we know that won't happen.

 

[revo333]

Hopefully It's a Dane Swan

Dane Swan

Age

40

Ht

185cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.9

5star

K

16.4

5star

HB

10.4

5star

M

5.9

5star

T

3.1

5star

CL

5.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

scenario where the umps look after him the season after he should have won.

Although let's not forget that if Daicos didn't get injured...

 

[bobs head soup]

Tom Liberatore had a career best showing of 17 votes last night.

The only time a Liberatore polled more was in 1990 when Tony won the medal polling 18.

 

[cakewalk_1]

Bont absolutely robbed again. Feel really sorry for him.

Ridiculous medal. Ridiculous count.

Agree, Bont should have won it. Neale got 3 votes for a 7 kick, 13 handballs, 0 goals game against GWS.

 

[Libbaaaa]

I think because Neale is/was so good, in time we won't remember it like the Woewodin and Priddis ones.

Priddis was a gun, got almost 150 Brownlow votes in his career, 28 the year after he won too.

Once again, the result proving umpires have absolutely no feel for who the most damaging players are, which players have the most impact on the result.

Wines, Cripps, Neale x 2. All players that get a lot of the ball, but Cripps aside, maybe, they don't really hurt you in the way Bont or Daicos do.

Neale got robbed last year so being a 2x medalist is probably fair as a whole but he shouldn't have won this year. Cripps just keeps getting votes on reputation, something Bont never really does.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Complete joke, Bont should have won, and everyone except the umps and Lions supporters knows it.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Priddis was a gun, got almost 150 Brownlow votes in his career, 28 the year after he won too.


Neale got robbed last year so being a 2x medalist is probably fair as a whole but he shouldn't have won this year. Cripps just keeps getting votes on reputation, something Bont never really does.

I've heard the whole 'payback' for Neale for Cripps taking the medal off him year when Cripps has his suspension drama, but you would hope not. Would hate for Bont to get it next year as sympathy for this year.

 

[Mr. Walker]

But as I keep saying it should have nothing to do with how OTHER players play ... [sigh]

I disagree. It’s not a strict rule but I think there is an unconscious bias in the umpires ( and probably all of us) that the three votes goes to the judged best player on the winning side. His team mates get him a couple more wins Bont may have got a couple more votes.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Complete joke, Bont should have won, and everyone except the umps and Lions supporters knows it.

Pretty sure Neale knows it. He looked rightly horrified and embarrassed. FWIW I watched him specifically - every possession vs the Hawks as we needed him to get 30 possessions to win a multi we were in. All of us felt it was the worst 30 possession game we had ever seen. Seagulls the packs, low impact ball movement with lots of little cheeky 1/2’s. It was laughably aweful for the 3rd highest possession getter on the day. Poor Bont.

 

[darklake]

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Wikitext

| careerhighlights = * [[List of Western Bulldogs captains|Western Bulldogs captain]]: 2020– [[List of VFL/AFL premiers|AFL premiership player]]: [[2016 AFL Grand Final|2016]] 2x Brownlow Medal 2021,2023 2x [[Leigh Matthews Trophy]]: 2021, 2023

AntiDionysius

Someone has been fiddling with Bont's wiki page.